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Having an affair but can't leave marriage

Posted by: Anonymous
Sat 31, Jan 2009 at 9:57am
Sex/Intimacy and romance, Affairs and Jealousy

I really need someone to put my life back on track, to turn me back into the mother and wife I once was... a year ago, all that matters to me was my family whom I took pride in and would do a lot for them without expecting anything in return. After all, love is unconditional and as a mother, its my job to love, care and protect them. I didn't even ask a lot from my husband nor did he expect a lot from me. We were just in a good marriage, hardly any arguments between us and we took pride in our parenting and are proud of our beautiful, bright children.

It all started when a single dad at school confessed to me that he finds me attractive and admitted fancying me for a while. It all came as a big surprise to me as I do not expect a mum like me to still have "admirers". Although I turned him down but since then my confidence grew and I started enjoying the fact that I can still attract male attention.

Six months ago, I met William. I was very much attracted to him, physically and sexually. We started off texting back and forth, first with light and gentle flirting. We met up for a few drinks now and again and have a good time laughing and flirting. Then it soon developed into a bit more and more and then more.

I am not one into casual flings or reckless, irresponsible behaviour but then suddenly before I realise, I found myself having an affair with William. A proper full blown affair. By the time I asked myself "what have I done?", it was too late. I have already slept with him. I know it was all principally and morally wrong. I know I have done something very bad and my husband would not forgive me if he knows what had happened.

I asked myself what do I want from this relationship with William? Is it just purely for sex? Physically, we both look good together and we are both in lust with each other although William said its not just about that. He said he cares about me and wanted to see me every weekend. He kept telling me he misses me whenever he is not with me and he would send me daily texts messages which were all very sweet to read.

I thought I was falling for William because I can't get him out of my mind and I really love being with him. I am so attracted to him that no one else can catch my attention because my heart and mind is just set on him alone.

The problem is I can't seem to leave my marriage because I don't want to break my family apart and let my kids and husband down. What I have is beautiful and to destroy it could be the biggest mistake and regret in my life. Yet I can't stop contact with William no matter how hard I tried, I always ended up going back to him again and again. It is like an addiction. Maybe I am in love with him but I am just in self denial.

Although William has told me he loves me but he doesnt convince me enough that our relationship has a future. Although I can see myself (on my own) with him but I can't see my children in the picture. William is a single guy, still living a bachelor life and there is no way he would swap his convertible two seater sports car into a family car. Everything in his life is that of a bachelor; even his bachelor pad is so unchild-friendly and immaculate that I can't even imagine my kids sitting on his leather creamy sofa. I can't even see him swapping his bachelor pad to a family home.

All signs are telling me is I am a "current" girl he is currently seeing until he finds himself a single girl he is willing to settle down with. I have somehow raised that issue in a joking way with him and of course he denied it. I didn't press him more because I don't want to spoil the fun between us. Also I felt I have no right to press him for commitment when I myself am still married. He did say to me before that I should make my mind up on what I want in life or with my relationship and he is jealous to imagine sharing me.

There is no sharing. I have become even more emotionally and physically detached from my husband. Thinking back over the years, we have grown apart emotionally and intimately. There is hardly any connection between us and I am no longer attracted to my husband in a sexual way. No matter how I want to try with him again but I just couldn't find myself interested in the whole idea.

I think its because I am so distracted having William around. Sooner or later this is going to come out and my husband will find out what I have been doing. I really have to decide what I want in life but at the moment its nearly like saying wanting to have the cake and eat it.

In my dream, if I can, I would just walk away from my marriage and start a new life with William but I cant leave my children behind and it pains me to imagine letting my husband down because it would be a blow to him. It would kill him if I leave.

Also, is William the kind of guy who is worth sacrifising for? That question has been hanging on my head. If I leave my marriage for a guy who is worth every tear and pain and manage to have a good relationship and lead a happier life with.... that would be beautiful but William might not be worth the sacrifices.

Should I confront William and ask him to be honest with me on what he wants? He got to give me some kind of commitment. Part of me thinks if he can't commit on a long term thing with me and include my kids in, then he is a waste of time and effort. He is just not worth it. But to raise all these with him mean potentially I am at risk of losing the fun I can have with him.

And if he said yes he is ready to commit, do I really have the heart and courage to leave my marriage and tear all their world apart?

Please please please have anyone been through similar experience or can someone wake me up?

  This was of help to 50% of people  


  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    hi, phew this alls sounds  unbeliveable but so true going through a simialar thing only Im not in a full blown affair and single at the minute having recently broken up from my partner of 10years nothing to do with another man we just cannot connect anymore, even though we have been separated since October we still carnt talk on the phone for 5 minutes without an argument, however there is a man whom I have known and been attracted to for years he suddenly came back into my life shortly after my split however he's married,although unhappily. he has children but they are grown up plus he's 12 years older than me, and I have a young child of four. He been ringing me once a week and we just talk but its so good to talk to him and he's actualy listening and interested in what im saying my ex partner just wouldnt have a conversation at all. Ive allways wanted to have more with this man although i was happy in my relationship and he was married, but now I feel i dont wanna miss my chance with him i think we could be good together. But as you I ask myself many questions are you prepared to go through the heartache to be together are they worth it, would he want to bring up someone elses child especially one so young, could we trust each other, would it last the list goes on . I do believe though sometimes in life you have to take risk but then if things dont go your way, can you live with the regret. but also remember life is short and its for living. i know how hard the decision will be to make for you and for me, should your hubby find out about your affair then that would be worse wouldnt it and then would there be a chance that you could get your marriage back on track or would you end up with the other man because you were forced into it can you see a future for you and your husband ?, Wish you lots of luck in making a desicion, be strong.

    Sun 1, Feb 2009 at 10:05am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Thank you for your feedback and sharing your experience.  At least your position is hugely different; you mentioned you are single and already separated (although the new man isnt). And the fact that you were always arguing with your ex-partner wherease in my case, we had generally a pretty good relationship (this sounds crazy but we hardly have arguments, its just the lack of similar interests, lovingness, romance and affection that set us emotionally and physically apart). I secretly thought if I have a turbulent relationship with my husband, it would make it a lot easier to walk out but the fact that he is generally a good husband material and provider that makes me much more hesitatant to walk out.
    I finally told William my honest feeling.  I told him that I can't foresee us having a long term thing together. He said the fact that my position is not straightforward makes it tricky between us. I told him I cannnot risk leaving my marriage for a casual fling (referring to him) and unless I know where we are at, then only I can have a clearer picture and know where to go from here. He asked me if I am asking for commitment. I told him I can't make him commit because you just can't force someone to commit. I said it all depends on how strong his feelings towards me is and willing to put up with someone like me (with kids). I said if he chickens out, thats fine, we can still be friends, no hard feelings. But really, I like to know and I told him I am doing a lot of thinking. He said so is he. He is also thinking of our circumstances and told me he is not an irresponsible man. I think he doesn't want to be seen as a bad guy in splitting my marriage and want me to leave  my marriage for my own reasons, not because of him.
    In my mind, I am secretly thinking if he doesnt want to commit with me, I will stop seeing him and then try very hard to make my marriage work. Of course I dont want to tell William that because I dont want to place pressure on him and make him feel guilty.
    William told me he can't give me the answer rightaway because he wants to think about it. I thought he is really sweet by being honest. I know he likes me and cares for me but whether it is enough to want to make it long term is another question. At the same time, I am not going to give him all my heart until I know where I stand. It is really difficult because part of me suspect that i am already in love with him.
    Part of me really want to stop seeing him until he tells me where I stand in his heart. And that alone is not enough. I like to know if he has in mind any long term plan for me and my kids. I can see he is capable of being a good stepdad but whether or not he wants to do it is another question. I don't want to push him too much because its a sensitive and huge decision. I try to imagine his position and be understanding; a single and carefree, city guy and suddenly transforming himself into a stepfather figure with young children overnight. It must be a huge thing to take on. If he doesnt want to commit, its all very simple. His love for me is just not that strong and deep enough. I will have to pick up my pieces and get on with my life, trying to make my marriage work and to really really leave him behind...

    Mon 2, Feb 2009 at 11:08am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Can not quite believe what I have just read and not because I think you are a bad person, only that it could be me only the guy involved is married too and, worse still a friends husband. We have been good friends for ages only few months ago things changed and until last week we were having a full blown affair. now he has finished it, not because he does not still want me but the guilt is getting to him. He is not in love with me but i am with him. Problem i want him back but its a no go, he still wants to be friends and we talk daily, do not want to be with husband but with children feel cant leave. God knows why we get ourselves in these messes. I wish I could help you with advice how to get your life back, but I too am confused and stuck. Spend half my time in tears and the other day dreaming when i should be being a good mother to my children...

    Mon 2, Feb 2009 at 2:43pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    To the writer above, we are in a similar position as not being able to leave because we got children and its just heartbreaking at the thought of breaking our family and tearing the kids' world apart. I don't judge you for being in love with your friend's husband because sometimes in life, things like that happen and it's not something we want to happen but its very difficult to control our emotions or choose who we want or won't fall in love with. I am sorry to hear that you are now going through difficult time and been crying to yourself and i am sure missing the guy and still wanting him and thinking of him. That would be me when I finish it all with William. Or when he finishes with me. Whichever one of us initiate first. Either way its going to hurt me badly. I have tried, God knows, how many times not wanting to be in contact with him but I am just not trying hard enough. I think about him nearly all the time and I truly want to be with him.
    If I search deep within my heart, if he tells me that he really wants to commit with me and build a life with me and my kids, I got a feeling I could leave my husband and choose to be with him. After all, life is short and I only have one life to live. A little part of me is disappointed with him for not wanting to commit and promise a future with me and the kids but then a big part of me really understands its a big decision for one to take. Its so easy and straightforward on his end (him being bachelor) but my end is complicated. Even though I am now a mum but I found myself now acting like a lovestruck teenager scribbling his initials on the dustprints and on my notes.  I even daydream of having his baby (but wouldnt want another one with my husband). I wouldnt say I am obsessed with him but I have a suspiciion that I am in love with him.... And if he wants to commit, I got a feeling it's going to be good between us. Firstly I would be greatly appreciative and grateful that his love for me is strong and deep enough to want to love and accept me and my kids. It takes a legendary guy to do that. And for that, I would be thankful and treat him well and with great respect.
    I know time is a healer but it may take an awful long time. May I know how long has it been since he broke it up with you? Are you worried that your friend might find out? How long were you two together? I know we are all in a trapped position ourselves and we can't really help each other but we can certainly help by talking and sharing about our feelings.

    Mon 2, Feb 2009 at 3:30pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Thank you for your kindness. We were together for 4 months during which time I learnt more about me than I could have imagined, my needs and desires. He broke it off last wed so not even a week yet! We still speak at least once a day though mostly twice which I know is not helping me but he is worried about me as he does have strong feelings for me, and to be honest if it was not for the kids he would leave her. I mean if there were no strong feelings he would not be calling me to make sure I'm ok would he. like you if he said leave, i would at a drop of a hat, no doubt in my mind, we have been good friends for years and talk about everything. Trapped is exactly how I feel, and I totally relate to your comment about a love sick teenager, in fact he always said I made him feel 18 again.
    Not sure if being worried about my friend finding out is weirdly an issue though the wider issues are, such as the playground - kids same age  - other mums.... Thing is if he had the guts to leave her then it would be worth it. He said today he would love to give me want i want but cant, the kinds are his no 1 priorty which is honrable but....
    My problem now is how to deal with my marriage... do I stay or leave? a big?????

    Mon 2, Feb 2009 at 4:59pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I have the same dilemma as you; do I stay or leave my marriage? When I tell myself life is short and we only live once, I felt I should leave and the desire to find happiness with another man, to feel young and being in love again are just good and tempting thoughts . But when I tell myself how could I, for the sake of my one happiness, to destroy the lives of my husband and kids, I felt selfish and my principle told me to stay put. I bet you feel the same. If we choose to leave, it should hopefully be our own personal, emotional reasons and not because of a third party otherwise if the third party didnt work out, we could possibly live with regret and resentment. It is a huge gamble to break up our family over someone we are possibly just blindly in love with.
    This is when the quote "you have to be cruel to be kind" falls in. I am referring to him. It is clearly not helping if he still rings you, yes I know he cares for you and still have feelings for you but at the same time, it is not helping you to move on. If he wants to break, he has to break it off clean and free. Calling up to ask if you are OK and so on is really not good for you. Can you resist his calls or refrain yourself from texting/contacting him? Would that make him realise how much he misses you? Sometimes when you don't speak to someone for a while, you wonder more about that person and may suddenly realise you want to be with that person after all. 
    I am not asking you to play games with him but I do go through days when I go cold on William, no contact with him, no emails or texts, just to work my feelings out. And for him to work his feelings out too. (The frustrating thing is, at the end of it, we still go back to each other.)
    I understand what you mean that being with him for 4 months make you learned more about yourself than with your husband. William walked into my life as though he owned it. Had I been single and without kids, i think we would have been so good together. Last night I went to bed with my husband and whilst lying there, I had to turned away to shed a few quiet tears. I realised I wanted to be with the other person and it just pains me. At the same time, I got few texts from him so I guess its not helping at all.
    Yes I know what you mean when you said if he has the guts to leave her then it would be worth it. Its like me saying if William is willing to take on me and the kids as a package, then I would so overwhelmed and touched by his deep love towards me.
    I guess at the end of the day, the test is how deep their love is. What sacrifices they are willing to do in order to be with that one person.  We must not forget they are not the only one who has to sacrifise, in your case for him to leave his kids and break his family apart and in William's case, to have a complete change of lifestyle scene and to take on two kids overnight. We are also in a very difficult position. We also have a huge sacrifice and big decision to make. I hope they realise that.
    Have you been married long? Would you try marriage counselling with your husband?
    Keep writing and sharing. 

    Tue 3, Feb 2009 at 9:43am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I wish you ladies lots of luck whatever you decide to do! Please be careful that you're not idealising these men - if you did start again with them it's very possible you'll be feeling the same way (bored, lonely, frustrated) in a few years.
    Perhaps it's about keeping your relationship good, enjoyable and working together, rather than risking making the same mistakes again? Second, third and fourth marriages are all much less likely to last...
    Sorry to be negative! Wishing you all the best

    Tue 3, Feb 2009 at 10:02am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    The the above, many thanks, and yes in an ideal world it would be best to keep the marriage good, only mine is somewhat going pear shaped at present. Trouble is not being able to tell what exactly is the problem. only time will tell.
    To my dilemma buddy (sorry !), we have been married for nearly 14 years and yes i have suggested counselling. This though could cause more problems as dont you have to be honest in these sessions!
    Spoken again today, but of us are struggling to deal with the situation, i guess we both hang on as ideally we would be together. 
    How long have you been married and how are things today with William? Does your husband have any idea there is something up? I have been distant and moody at home since all started.
    Write soon.

    Tue 3, Feb 2009 at 2:32pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hello again, it really helps to know I am not the only one in this dilemma and trapped position. Thanks for writing back.
    Firstly yes I do remind myself that things are always rosy at the beginning and a second marriage may not necessary mean its going to be eternally blissful and fairytale. I have been married for 10 years and although things were generally good between us but it has never been about hot passion and strong chemistry attraction. There were little mental sparks and soul connection. But my husband does have many good qualitiies and thats why I am hesitant to walk off.
    My husband is slowly suspecting I am up to something with my constant going outs and I have really run out of excuses and lies on where I am going or who I am out with. I am also getting careless with my texts and emails and I know its a matter of time before he finds out. A small part of me thinks its more of a relief if he finds out so that at least I can be honest with him but I know he would be unforgiving and that would probably mean the end of our marriage.
    Like you, I have been distant, detached and moody at home too.  I still look at the kids and smile with pride and love. But my feelings have been like rollercoaster, one moment I am up and next down. One moment I dream of packing up and go and be carefree but I know thats impossible because I dont have the heart to do that and I love my kids too much. Its just like a double life I am living. When I am with William, I feel like a total single, carefree girl. We hold hands, we stop to kiss on the street, we exchange loving glances and smiles, we cuddle a lot and listen to music while he stroke my hair....all these things that I don't even do with my husband.
    Today I woke up with a mixture of emotions, as usual this is how I am feeling lately. One moment, I told myself no contacts with William for today but next moment I thought to myself why torture myself and him? Sometimes I told myself just go and have fun with him, not to take it seriously and not to expect any commitment. Just go and have a few hours of fun to recharge my life battery. But I am not that kind of person and I dont want a fun fling because I have feelings and too much at stake and its really a case of "all or nothing".
    I must say my sleep has been disrupted and I am stressed. I lay awake thinking of him, tossing and turning. William told me he's been feeling a little low lately although he didnt tell me whats the reason. I wonder if its because of me. Sometimes being in love doesnt mean we are on cloud nine and happy but if the love situation is complicated, being in love can bring us down and make us low and moody especially when its frustrating and not going our ideal way. 
    As for going to marriage counselling, you are right in saying that it may mean we have to confess the whole story but I know we dont have to go as a couple, you can go on your own and it may not necessary mean to patch things up in your marriage. The counsellor may help us to realise that this marriage is really not working and help us to clear our mind and have the courage to walk away. Having said that, I havent tried counselling and at the moment, have no intention. I am just playing with time hoping for time to reveal more and help me to see a better picture.
    Am I correct to guess your husband is quite a good husband material thus you are hesitant in leaving? How's the relationship between the two of you like? Did the guy phone you today and how are you feeling today? Do you see him often at the school playground? Do you share your problems with your closefriends and family?

    Tue 3, Feb 2009 at 5:01pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    p.s: hello again to my dilemma buddy, if you like you can email me (personal identification removed) and we can exchange more messages between us there.  With respect, I understand we can still remain confidential with our identity. Hope to hear from you.

    Tue 3, Feb 2009 at 5:23pm
  • User-anonymous missrosy Flag

    People like you two really make my blood boil. I do not want to attack you both but want you to understand how cruel you are both being!
    Stand up and have the courage to leave your husbands. You are going to hurt so many people. Please don't be naive enough to think it will be your husbands only it won't. You will hurt family, friends etc too.
    Does any human being deserve this kind of treatment, the answer is no!
    Sounds to me you are both being lazy in your marriages. Marriages do become a bit stale at times but you both have to try really hard somtimes, running into someone else's arms is just plain ridiculous! There are many people on this site who will warn you that the grass is most certainly NOT greener!
    I hope you can make a decision sooner rather than later!
    Good luck

    Tue 3, Feb 2009 at 6:11pm
  • User-anonymous missrosy Flag

    Sorry I didn't mean to sound so harsh. Let me explain. My husband has had a thing with a friend of mine and another woman on the interent too at the same time! There was no sex involved at all but he was emotionally connected to them both.
    This has pretty much destroyed my life. We have been going to relate for near on 6 months now and I still feel sad and teary. I don't think my husband will ever understand just how much he has hurt me.
    Be careful is all I want to say as if you make a mistake with the other people your husbands will not be easily forgiving you I am sure!
    Good luck

    Tue 3, Feb 2009 at 6:43pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Miss Rosy, I don't take your comments too personally but thank you for your feedback. I do realise that my actions are selfish and unfair to my husband and kids. As I said a year ago, I would never imagine myself to be in such a position. In fact, when my good friend got cheated by her husband, I played their middle person/counsellor and gave them my time and advice to help them through the rough patch. At that time, I was still a "model wife and mum" who do not approve infidelity and frown upon anyone having an affair... if you would have told me back then that one day I would be the one committing an adultery and having an affair, I could bet all my money and house that no I am not that kind of person. But look at me now. It all started as a harmless flirt. Throughout my marriage, I don't even flirt with other men and that was my first proper flirt but look at the state of it now.
    Of course this action is going to destroy the lives of people who matter most to me. Apart from my husband and kids and possibly William's but also mine just as well. That is why I don't want to make hasty action in leaving my marriage and I am really thinking and weighing the consequences everyday, enough to make me stressed out. I am basically taking one step at a time and to survive half a day or a day without contact with William is a big achievement to me.. all I need to do is to slowly will myself away from him, with my willpower and sense.... only to find my heart leads me back to him. I am not proud and happy of the whole thing either.
    Miss Rosy, I hope the relate counselling sessions help your marriage. At least you got a man who is willing to try to make it work. And yes I know the grass is not always greener, its a quote I have always advised others....

    Tue 3, Feb 2009 at 7:33pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Like wise, I take your comments MissRosy totally on board. I am behaving badly. Its a weird feeling, as I have always truely believed when people have said ' oh I just couldn't help myself' , course you could! Trouble is when the situation is in front of you, not the case at all. 
    I too hope you find happiness in the future.

    Wed 4, Feb 2009 at 10:31am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Dear DB,
    What is crazy about all this is that you and I feel the same and are having the same issues - lack of sleep being just one! So how many others are in the same position? makes you wonder.

    My husband is a good man and certainly does not deserve this. We have had a good marriage but a safe one. I simply chose safe and reliable over passion and true love many years ago and now .... well not good choice as turns out. Never had that feeling I would die for this man, go anywhere with this man and in fact told him i would never move away from my home. Where as with the other, would go anywhere.
    yes we did speak and text yesterday and then, unfortunately bumped into him with wife. Awkward. She has been asking questions and feel even though we are ' separated' as we still talk all the time, only a matter of time before she twigs.
    Relations at home are uncomfortable. Had row earlier in week, we never row, and just wish had guts to tell him it is over. like you, sometimes wish he or she would find out, at least the lying would stop.
    Have you told any of your friends about William? Would they support you?

    Wed 4, Feb 2009 at 10:42am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    My other DB, I can't believe it. I managed the whole of yesterday afternoon and evening without contacting him. I intend not to make the first move. I know William remembers our last meeting chat when i said "i have some thinking to do" and he said "so have I." So perhaps its best if both of us have some time apart and do some thinking. Basically I want an "all or nothing" from him. Either he commits with my whole package (my kids) otherwise I am not risking my generally good marriage for nothing. To want to be with me on my own is not good enough. This may scare hi off and might mean its all over but if so, I am not going to die, will I? And that will finally show how strong his love is for me. It's going to hurt because I know its too much, too soon to ask for such huge commitment from him but I can't help it. I am prepared to give up for him, is he willing to give up for me?
    Yes I've told my bestfriends and family about my position. They don't agree with what I am doing.
    How are you feeling today? And what do you intend to do to make things better with your husband at home?

    Wed 4, Feb 2009 at 11:54am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Well, feel calm. Last night was relatively ok. I too have told a few select people. Opinions vary.
    Not really sure how I feel about home. The main problem is, for me any how, that I am simply not in love with my h anymore. We have not had any kind of intimate relations for over 6 months and to be honest never really did fancy him. I married him because I never believed anyone else would have me. I was his first and only girlfriend. I asked him out and basically felt I could give him a life he would not otherwise have, ie kids and wife. Very shy person. A very arogent (so cant spell) position I now realise but born out of a position of low self esteem (have been seeing a counseller myself to try and sort out my head).
    Now things are different. I truely feel my marriage is over but do I plod on for kids? Can you live as friends? no sex .  Not be all and end all but....
    My ideal would be to carry on at home, simply as friends and hope my other has me back - selfish I know. Trouble is I think I could only leave if had someone to leave for....  make it worth it.
    How are you feeling about no contact with W? Arent you desparate to? I know I would be. Like to know he is thinking of me. Crazy! Seems though you have come to a decision. If so the pain will be bad, but you can rant on to me if helps.

    Wed 4, Feb 2009 at 12:42pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi DB,
    I am a little different with things at home as I still have intimate relationship with my husband. Reason is only because we generally got on OK (although at times we act like housemates more than anything) and he still make advances with me. Although I refused quite a number of times but certain times, I gave in to him out of obligation too. However I must admit that most of the time, I think of William when I am sleeping with my husband! And that was why after sex, I felt the pain in my heart because i know how much I want it to be with William. And there was one occasion when I realised its my husband, I actually felt emotionally sick. I really had to end it because I couldnt bear it. Therefore I must admit our bedroom dept. have been affected greatly since William. Not that its any great before that but has always been OK.
    You truly felt your marriage is over. How about trying relate counselling on your own first? I might even consider going for a relate counselling on my own too. Just to understand why I feel the need to cheat and destroy a good marriage and to find out if there is any way I can save it.
    Its not easy to live as friends. It also leads to confusion especially if one partner still cares for the others. But I read before somewhere that before you go ahead with a divorce, its best to try to live separately under the same roof first, for the sake of the young children. So maybe you can opt that option for a few months or say, a year? Or depending on both your position. Remember I am at lost myself!
    Yes I am like you. I can only leave when I have someone out there. I guess I am needy and hate to be on my own. That is why I need a guarantee from William before I leave my husband. I know it shouldnt be this way.
    I am surprisingly coping alright without contact with W. That is because I kept telling myself "he didnt want to commit and include your kids, so he's not worth your tears." then I have little voices that argue back "maybe you're rushing it! you should give him more time!" Though I am coping OK and still manage to laugh today but i still think and wonder about him throughout the day. And I still peep at my mobile to check if there is any text. But I will not initiate any contact. I want him to make the first move.
    How are you feeling this evening? Keep writing. I find writing it out really helps.

    Wed 4, Feb 2009 at 5:47pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Following my note above, I have spoken to him again and now for some reason I am feeling angry towards him. He seems to feel we can just go back to being friends and that our families can go on meeting up as usual! He is sorry it has had to end and will miss it but it can not start up again. Worse thing is I found myself almost begging him to have me back! How low can I get, not only being a crap friend but also not respecting myself! I mean I still love him so much and would have him back in a shot, but to beg! I will never regret being with him, as it has made me realise the problems I have with my marriage but I surely am worth more that a quick shag in the back of a car.
    Sorry.... worse thing is, tomorrow I will probably feel like have done for ages, lovesick and desparate.
    Hope you are ok. Write soon

    Wed 4, Feb 2009 at 5:54pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    HI DB, I have to write after reading your message as I hope to offer some comforting words to get you through this crappy evening. I take it as you rang him or he rang you, either way it makes no difference since you ended up sounding as though you are almost begging him to have you back. Earlier in your other message you mentioned something about your low self esteem issues. It could be that low self esteem which made you stoop to that level and am I right in suggesting your short affair with him has made you feel special, adored and boost your confidence and self esteem (during that time). Now without it again, you are back to that person with little self esteem once again? Do you think he is like a lifeline to you and helped you in shaping your confidence and personality and made you feel special?
    I got a feeling W is not going to contact me tonight and I am determine not to initiate. Im just going to keep myself busy in order not to think about him. Will update tomorrow. Take care. 

    Wed 4, Feb 2009 at 6:50pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    God you should be a counseller, as thats about it although have not lost all of the boost he has given me. What I do keep feeling is why am I not worth it, his love I mean. Why, whats wrong with me, and then I have to keep rememebering the kids.. He has made be feel more special and desirable than I could have imagined and its hard to let that go.
    School run now so catch you later...

    Thu 5, Feb 2009 at 8:36am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi DB, Ive just came back from school run myself. Im in no mood for other things, cancelled two coffee morning this week with my friends. I just want to be on my own at home, listen to music and clear my mind. Maybe its better if I get out of the house, have fresh air to stop thinking too much. But I am just in low mood.
    He didn't text or email at all yesterday. Its been 48 hours. Of course I miss him but a little part of me is relief that at least that helps me to move on with my life. A little part of me wonder if he gets in touch again, what would my reaction be? I suspect I will respond, its just that i wont initiate. I know he does think of me and in a way misses me but is that "it" for him? Is he really moving on too? Or is he just taking a time off to do some thinking? Or did he just see me as a good time buddy and when I wanted to take it to another level, he decided to chicken out? Or did he misunderstand my message and thinks I am dumping him but just using a lame excuse therefore he is staying away too out of pride? God! The more I think, the more confused and stressed I am.
    I am rather good with advising others but I am hopeless with my own problem. You have so much love to give and come across as a passionate woman with genuine feeling and capable of giving yourself selflessly, you deserve a man who can give as much as you in return. There is nothing wrong with you, its just in life sometimes its a question of meeting someone at the wrong time.... Just like in my case. He's 10 years too late.
    I am also wondering. Am I not worth him sacrificing and adjusting his bachelor lifestyle? Why is he hesitant to build a future plan with me and my kids? Does it show his love is not strong/deep enough? Or is it too soon to ask for? Am I rushing him? Or he didn't want to break my marriage and be the bad guy? Initially he thought my marriage was already over long before we met but suddenly I looked at him in the eye and said "Our relationship is posing too much risk in my marriage." And suddenly the pressure and guilt is placed on him.
    W to me is my dream guy. I have always dreamed of a guy like him and could fall deeply and madly in love with someone as near perfect as him. He has everything I wanted in a guy and to give him up is such a waste in a way. I might be a fool to let someone as good as that go and to give up too soon. But then when I think about myself and I wonder about my own self-esteem, self-worth and self-love. I should be thinking if he lets me go, he is a fool to give up something as good as me. I have so much to offer him, I can make him feel the happiest guy in the world, I want to make him smile everyday and to love and adore him. If he walks away from me, its his loss.
    Reading back my message, I realise I have been talking too much about W and little about my husband. Maybe we should both try to talk more about our husband and explore a bit more on that side in order to understand and work out what we want (or dont want) in our marriage.
    How are you going to get through today? Can you resist yourself by not having any communication with him?  Look forward to hearing from you.

    Thu 5, Feb 2009 at 9:50am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I'm afraid to admit we met up today. We did not cross'that line' as he would say, but did kiss.  Odd he seeems as unable to pull away as me. God knows what this means but he is going to call me apparently tomorrow so we'll see. knew I could not resist him!
    Yep, think I could sum him up as my ideal or dream guy and there lies the problem. Dreams are not reality. I hate to say it, but in your case, i think W has gotten cold feet and yes that may well be for the best, but it will hurt and I totally feel for you.
    We should both be thinking of the future. I know that mine can not hold him all to myself and as such have done a lot of pondering to day over what to do.
    Firstly, my kids, as are yours, are no 1 and if I can make things work as friends with my husband then maybe, at least til the children are a bit older, thats how it should work   BUT I would have to add I really want out of this marriage as it has dawned on me through by counseller (which I saw again today) that i have never really grown up til recently. playing at the whole life etc and not really doing what I really wanted rather what I should. Always desparate to please my parents and therefore ended up chosing accordingly.
    Having said that, I go back to the point I made earlier in that my time may have to wait for now and put kids happiness first.
    God I babble on dont I!!!
    Both of us deserve more than these guys are prepared to give and in my case, so does his other half. But isnt is hard!
    Your marriage is more of one than mine, though similiar in parts. Is there anything your husband could/would change that would mean your happiness and therefore not feel the need to look elsewhere because lets face it, the reason we both have is due to unhappiness on some level at home.
    Write soon

    Thu 5, Feb 2009 at 8:38pm
  • Eyes_068 loobyloo Flag

    Hi Ladies
    I have read all your messages to each other and to be honest I think you should both leave your husbands but be on your own, why do you have to have someone to run to?  Surely if you both had time on your own you can work out what you both want out of life.
    These men have certainly done a number on both of you.  Take this William for example, if he truely loved you he would have said yes to commitment straight away no matter what you came with.  I know I make it sound so easy but love is supposed to be easy, love isnt something you should be stressing over.  As for the other bloke, I am really sorry to say this but he just fancied a bit on the side and then decided to get real and think of his marriage, again he would be with you kids or no kids, hes using them as an excuse not to be with you.  Kids are good at adjusting to situations, believe me mine are great kids and I am not with their father.
    I wasnt happy in my marriage, my husband had an affair 3 years ago and from then on I was never truely happy.  I could have done what he did or get my own back but in the end I chose to end the marriage as I knew that we would never be connected again like before.  If you both truely feel that your marriages are over just get some pride and get a back bone, say enough is enough and make a life for you and your children without either of these men.
    I am not judging you, just a bit sad that we are in the year 2009 and women still feel they have to fall back on a man to make them happy.  Good luck in your decisions ladies.  Take care xx

    Thu 5, Feb 2009 at 9:39pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    To Loobyloo
    i know you are totally right and in fact if i was to leave for my other and then it not work out - well....
    The thing is, I am scared to leave, guess the unknown. I am wondering how you coped and handled your brave and difficult decision. How do you say to someone it is over, I cant very well tell my husband about the other man for obvious reasons. If only I could be honest.... any advice would be appreciated

    Fri 6, Feb 2009 at 8:26am
  • User-anonymous missrosy Flag

    Just open your mouth and tell him! He deserves better! How can you continue to be so dishonest? It is such an evil thing to do to anyone! You amaze me, both of you what you have been saying. You are both being quite wicked and you just can't see it. You are also cowards.
    If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen! Just wake up to yourselfs!

    Fri 6, Feb 2009 at 8:43am
  • Cc Morwenna Flag

    Just to reassure both of the above posters that it is not evil, wicked or cowardly to find it difficult to talk to a partner about difficult issues in a relationship, many couples find that the hardest thing is to talk to each other honestly about any concerns. I know one of you is seeing a counsellor already, would the other poster consider this, if necessary on her own - a counsellor would be able to help both posters talk through, decide and maybe even rehearse the best way to communicate better with their partners, if this is what they want. See or for access to relationship counselling. Good luck to both of you, I hope you are able to work things out.

    Fri 6, Feb 2009 at 9:49am
  • User-anonymous missrosy Flag

    Well that is your personal opinion which we are all entitled to. I do think it is cowardly and wicked to treat their husbands in such a way. It is cowardly in my opinion to have an affair which is pre meditated and planned behind another human beings back let alone the issue of them actually being married which is a completely different issue as they are comitted in a stronger way!
    It will all end in tears and they will no doubt both be posting on here again for advice. If they read all the comments from everyone who posted on here they will see for themselves all the hurt and destruction affairs and betrayal cause and they are both heading head first into all that! My story should show them what betrayal does and that didn't even involve sex yet is has destroyed a big part of our marriage!
    They even want to get caught, that is just nasty!
    They will not find happiness until they face up to what they are actually doing!

    Fri 6, Feb 2009 at 10:33am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Dear DB
    It seems our situation has turned into a slanging match and thats not good. We both know our situations are crap but all we have both done is fall in love and as harsh as it will seem to others that is just it. Neither of us has commited murder. I hope you are coping ok but understand if you dont reply.
    The others
    I have always tried to be open minded when friends have had life problems because you DO NOT ever know when you could be in the same boat. This has happened to me when a friend had an afffair and the marriage broke down. I did not judge or condemn even though I at that time, did not believe I would ever be a position of a similiar nature.
    as with every situation in life, only the ones going through it, can truely understand. Weirdly, I would not have my husband back if he strayed but do realise that others do have their husbands back.
    Lastly, please also remember, in particular with my situation, that their is another party and though he is not writing here, he could walk away and could have made the choice not to have started this just as I could have chosen to say no. But we didnt and now everything is not as black and white as others believe. Life is just not like that.
    One thing is true though, until I face up to this I will not be happy, but tell me, how the hell to I do that. I cant be honest with my husband as the implications for the other are immence. Rock and hard place. even if I never spoke to him again, no way forward unless I confess!!!!!!

    Fri 6, Feb 2009 at 1:05pm
  • User-anonymous missrosy Flag

    Do you not remember your wedding vows? Does your whole marriage mean nothing to you? Why can't you just leave? It is simple really. It will be awful at the time I don't doubt for one minute there will be so much hurt and upset. But you are clearly not happy at the moment either are you?
    There is only two outcomes that I can see. You both go off together and hurt husbands/wife's, or you get found out and end up on your own as this man could well stick with his wife. Whatever you or/and him decide there is going to be alot of tears and upset so surely it is better now rather than later.
    Why did you allow yourself to fall for another man? You are making out that you are not in control of our emotions. We all are we just choose not to be!
    I know for one it is something I could never even contemplate doing to my husband. I have strong moral beliefs and no full well I could not be capable of doing it. Whilst my husband has betrayed me quite alot actually there was no sex involved and as I love my husband very much I am willing to try and stick to my marriage vows and try really hard to make it work. It isn't easy but I want to do it. We also have exceptional cercumstances in that our daughter has a serious medical condition and could die any day from it. This obviously has created an immense amount of stress on our relationship. She had major head surgery in April and I was with her in hospital for a month. This over the rest of last year caused my husband and I to not be connected, which is extremely sad. The reason I am saying all this to you is that it is not as simple as me taking my husband back and their was no sexual contact with the women.
    You are right in that all you can really do is confess. The day will come probably where you will have to. Good luck with it because it is going to be the most terrible time of your life!

    Fri 6, Feb 2009 at 1:57pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hello I am the author of this and decided to sign myself up using a pseudonym so that readers are not confused as to who is who or which DB is which!
    Firstly I agree with Morwenna that not talking to our partner does not mean we are cowardly but for me its because I need a little more time to think before acting in a haste by confessing. I have also read and done some research on affairs and one of the professionals have advised that if you decided to finish the affair and work on the marriage then its best not to tell your partner that you have had an affair (if your partner doesnt know) because once its out in the open, there would be quite a nasty impact and damage. Sometimes its best to just keep quiet about it, what is not known doesnt hurt. Before you critisize this point, may I stress that I am not saying its alright to lie to your partner but this is on the basis that the cheater has decided to finish the affair for good and genuinely want to move on and work on his/her marriage. If there is a need to confess because of guilt, confess to a bestfriend or a pastor or counsellor. I am re-quoting what the professional has written on the article about affairs.
    Miss Rosy, I have read your article and sorry to hear about your daughter and certainly wish her well and best of health. I can understand how betrayed you feel over your husband's actions and its good to know you both are seeking counselling. You still sound bitter which is understandable because as we know, it takes a long time. I hope you do not judge anyone who have affairs because believe me, we are also good people with a heart and a soul and trapped in a position where we genuinely seek love and trying to find happiness again. It is a cry for help in a way. I know we should finish a relationship first before starting another, it is not right to have overlapped relationship but how are we to know the timing of meeting and falling in love?
    If you read what I have written earlier and written by the other DB as well, I have always stood upright with my principles and values in life, had been a good wife and mother for the last 10 years and never thought one day I would be a cheater in marriage. I even frowned upon anyone who has affairs and shook my head in disapproval. I certainly didn't want to hurt anyone but somehow I believe there are events in my life or certain unhappiness at home or lack of emotional fulfillment and detachment with my husband that lead me to this path. Please note I am not blaming him, I believe it takes two to make a marriage work. I was going through stress at that time and could have become depressed if not for this affair.  William has lifted me up and made me feel good at that time, he sort of picked me up from the rut and perked up my life. Of course this "feeling good" feeling didn't last but at that time, it has helped me to cope with my stress level and divert my attention in a way that it saves me from falling into depression. I am sure there are people who do not believe me and probably think I am finding a lame excuse.
    Anyway, its been over 3 days and I havent heard from William. Which just shows one thing. That his feelings for me were not strong enough to want to make this work/continue. A little part in me wonder if I have made a mistake in "pushing him for commitment" at such early stage but I must not let this thought pulls me down again. I have felt really low and sad today and went to see my bestfriend for a shoulder to cry on. She has given me great support and really helped me through this. I am going to try my best to make my marriage work and resist all contact with William. If, after giving 100% into my marriage and I still couldnt reconnect my emotions and feelings with my husband, then I guess I have to seriously consider a trial separation. But first I have to try to make my marriage work because it is worth another try.
    DB, at this mo it seems that I am moving a step ahead you in term of finishing the affair. Mainly because William is staying away from me too (that really helps and make a difference). I dont know if he will ever be in touch with me again, he might just be giving himself a thinking time or he might be moving on. I am taking it that he is moving on. It is better to finish it now than later because the longer it drags on, the harder it is for me to climb back up. I have done well in resisting him by not contacting him too and in a way I am proud of myself for resisting him. Everytime I am about to fall into temptation, I snap myself out again by shaking that thought off my head.
    DB, do you think your marriage is worth another try? Do you think this affair is going to have a happy ending for both of you, do you think he is going to leave his wife and kids for you? If its clear that he wouldn't, so do you think its best to finish it early as the more involved you are, the more difficult it is for you? It is also a matter of time before your friend finds out because women have naturally good instincts.
    I certainly feel writing and talking about it helps me a great deal. I still go through moments when I feel low and tearful over William but a lot of it has to do with how I handle it mentally. I keep saying positive things like "he is not worth your tears!", "what could be more worse than losing your kids!" and "he doesnt want to commit, do you really want a guy like that???"
    Time will be a great healer. Hope to hear from you, DB. And thanks to all who have written in. Keep writing and sharing.

    Fri 6, Feb 2009 at 4:38pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Dear Emilysmilies from your DB
    At this precise moment I think I am going to brea, eyes full.  He has just called again and we  had a good talk, but basically I am still in my bubble. I know he will not leave and I know that he just wants to be friends, however in my mind the fact we are talking and still meeting (even if no sex involved) we are still having an affair as his wife is none the wiser. The whole thing is secret. what do you think?
     He wants to pop over next week for coffee and so far I have agreed but really I should be the stronger one but I always think, just once more, just one more time when he will hold me. You say that its only a matter of time before she finds out, and in fact she has noticed things and mentioned stuff but unless she has proof I dont believe she would confront him as he would deny (not that this in anyway makes it right). Trouble is now he is popping over as 'friends' his guard is slipping and thinks nothing of parking car outside! This is going to blow isn't it!

    Fri 6, Feb 2009 at 5:05pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    You rwo really seem to be moving in separate directions. Emilysmiles, it seems that you're winning to try for now on your marriage, to see if you can reconnect, and to try to avoid contact with William for a while.
    DB seems to be at a different phase, it sounds like you have given up on your marriage, and are just waiting for (and looking forward to?) getting caught. Reading your posts it seems inevitable that you will be caught and separate / divorced. It's almost as if this is the thill, and that you are unable to leave your marriage without having something lined up. Even though you acknowledge that your affair and you wouldn't work.
    It's really interesting to see how even though initially it looked like you two were in eactly the same postition, there's a massive difference between where you are, and maybe where you'll end up.
    I wish you both every happiness, but I also hope (as the others above do) that after the dust has settled leaves everyone is in a better position, with a comparatively more honest life. 
    After all, if it did come out, your family, parents, and kids, would feel pretty shocked and ashamed - you have to make sure it's worth it.

    Fri 6, Feb 2009 at 6:42pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Its been 4th day and I haven't been in any contact with William nor has be rang or texted. Which is fine. All the better, at least I can move on. I know if we do meet again, its just going round in circle, we go out and have good time, I get all the cuddles and adoration that I craved for, I felt alive and sexy but once I come back home, I am left thinking, missing and wondering about him, does he want to make long term plan with me, what if he meets another single girl... etc., all those thoughts always drag me down and drive me crazy and jealous. I rather live without all those negative and stressful thoughts and channel my energy into my family and kids or rather, what is before me. What I am saying is, although he made me feel good and happy when together but it comes with stress and lots of insecurities, uncertainties and risks of me losing everything for what could be nothing.
    DB, he is not just popping over for coffee as we all know. I dont think of you negatively for it, ive been through that "just once more" stage like you. Its you who have to say "enough is enough" and "I am not to be taken for a ride anymore". No one can tell you when to stop, as all my friends say to me, the choice is in your hand. A lot of it has to do with self-control, self-love and self-esteem. Whether you want to walk away with your head held high or wait until the day he leaves you for good and you feel really stupid and worthless. It is this thought that opened up my eyes. I cant bear the thought of the day when William chooses to leave me for another single girl and I would feel really stupid and angry.  "It is easier to finish it off sooner than later." You must keep repeating that to yourself (as I have done).
    I agree with the author above, it sounds like you have little consideration left to your marriage. If you really feel you want to end the marriage, please don't do it for the sake of this "other guy" as it is unlikely he will leave his family for you. You do it with your own reasons and for yourself, not for anyone. I dont know how old you are but regardless of age, I am sure life still continues and you could still make the most out of it, in fact it seems, better without this other guy or with your marriage holding you back...? In perfect world, I like the fairytale ending of you staying in your marriage happily ever after but I know this is real life and life is not a fairytale.
    DB, keep writing. I am finding my strength through sharing and also helping each other. 
    p.s: This weekend is the first weekend I am not spending time with William and I know I am going to feel low at some point but I am hoping to come up with something and do something with the family in order to distract me and stop myself from thinking of him.

    Sat 7, Feb 2009 at 9:56am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Weekends are bad for me as dont generally have any contact with him. The problem I face and why it is so hard to end is due to the family connections. We are friends and as such do things together, the kids are friends and at same school. There will be no getting away from him in the playground.
    I am worth more than this , but just not quite ready to make the final decisions. Need to be totally sure. I am only in my thirtys so I could start again. Perhaps the half term break will give me the strength to break free.  Trouble is I still live in hope he will choose me.
    I do hope your weekend goes well, I really admire you in your strength and I guess it helps that your marriage is strong. mine has aways had that spark missing even on my wedding day. Easy now to look back and say why did you marry. truth is, it seemed like the right thing. no one else would want me would they, only now I have discovered yes, only timing crap.
    Still not sure how this will pan out. Only time will tell.
    Write soon.

    Sat 7, Feb 2009 at 10:41am
  • Eyes_068 loobyloo Flag

    I have never judged you ladies and I wouldnt do that, we are all capable of falling for someone whether we are in a relationship or not.
    I just feel that you would both be happier without any man in your lives right now, I know its hard, I have been there twice for my sins and every time its not been easy.  But you learn to cope with it and you muddle through.  It does get easier on that front.
    Anon DB, I think you know what you have to do here but waiting for a man who is clearly never going to leave his wife for you is not the answer, you have to start being brave and face up to reality.  Tell him that hes not welcome in your home if his wife isnt with him or if your husband isnt home.  You are giving him the best of both worlds.  Time to look after yourself.
    Emilysmiles, ok you seem to have sorted out in your head that this other guy isnt the answer but you still have to face the fact that you are not truely happy in your fundamentally happy marriage, you should try talking to your husband, tell him that things have to change think of ways to bring some excitement into your marriage or it will be in trouble.  Maybe hes not happy either or he can sense that your not but maybe too scared to talk to you about it.  I hope that you can find happiness but if not then you to have to make a hard decision.
    Fingers are crossed for both of you, Looby x

    Sat 7, Feb 2009 at 3:45pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    I have now signed in as Anon DB is so impersonal especially as many of you have wise words to help me and been so kind.
    Directed at loobyloo, I note you say you have left twice, may I ask, were you married and did/do you have children? How did you brooch the subject and assuming you had an affair, did you tell your partner this?
    Sorry one more thing, I would love to be honest with my husband as to the reason I no-longer want to be with him, but with the person is question being a friends husband and someone he sociallises with on occasion, I can t tell him, so any advice on how to explain without telling?
    I know the last question is the ONLY reason I seem as if I want to be caught. At least I could then be honest, I don't like having this secret, i used to share everything with my husband.
    Help please x

    Sat 7, Feb 2009 at 4:47pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hello Suzzy, Im glad you have signed up. You can also check out the Work it Out section where you can also write a daily diary of what you are feeling and work out a plan on how to work on your marriage. I have just started on it.
    I am going through my down moment which is expected, although I seem quite capable of handling the situation but there are moments when I miss William. In fact I just saw him on MSN online and my heart skipped a beat but I quickly logged out of MSN before either of us tempted to message each other. 
    Looby, you're right. I need to sit down and tell my husband my honest feeling, that I am finding our marriage boring and we really need to do something about it to put it back to a level where we can enjoy each other's company once again. If I am being honest, I have never enjoyed his company even right from the beginning (he is complete opposite to me, I am extrovert and a bit on crazy fun side but he is more on the quiet side) but I married him because he is such a good husband material and I know this is the kind of man who is reliable and will be a responsible partner (he really is). I dont regret marrying him because looking back, its been quite a good marriage but now I realise I am missing a companion who can make me laugh and enjoy life together with me on a similar level. I will need to talk to my husband and try to work the differences out between us. I feel lonely deep inside even when I could be sitting next to him. He is never loving or affectionate and I am the kind of woman who needs lots of it.
    Looby, there are a number of women who are a bit emotionally needy and they always seem to want to be in a relationship. I am one of them. I am not as strong and independent as you and if I can be brave to be on my own, I am sure I will learn a great deal about myself. However I am not prepared to be stuck in a bad marriage/relationship just for the fear of being on my own. If a relationship is bad, I will really walk out. But my marriage isnt that bad. It so happened that I am physically, mentally and sexually attracted to another man who could fulfilled me in so many ways. And he came at a time when I was feeling most stressed, lonely, unappreciated and exhausted with life.
    Suzzy, if you are leaving your husband, considering the tricky situation you are in, you dont have to be entirely honest with him at this point. You dont have to name this other guy as the reason of you leaving. Remember my earlier advice; if you have to leave, you leave because your marriage is not working, not because of your lover.
    This is what I am trying to work out. I dont want William to cloud my judgement on my marriage/husband. I will try to talk to my husband then try to work on my marriage while having ZERO contact with William. That way I can focus on my marriage and give my 100% try in it. If it doesnt work despite me trying hard and despite not having William around, then at least I know I have tried and my marriage still didn't work.
    It does cross my mind what if by then, I have lose William? He could have met someone else by then. Well I don't expect him to hang around waiting for me. Its going to hurt badly but if I could hurt my husband by walking out on a ten year marriage then the pain of losing William (who is a few months affair) is nothing compared to the amount of pain and distress I cause to my husband and kids. If I expect my husband to pick up the pieces and carry on his life after such a big impact then surely I can pick up my little pieces of heartbreak and move on too.
    I am not at all strong, I still have the "what could have been" thoughts on my mind. I am still going through phases of up and down missing William and trying to convince myself I am doing the right thing. I still need the support and some encouraging words, that is why I am on this site.
    Keep writing. And many thanks to all who write in.

    Sat 7, Feb 2009 at 5:35pm
  • Eyes_068 loobyloo Flag

    Suzzy, you are making the toughest decision of your adult life here and its so scary.  Yes I have been married twice, my first husband was all wrong from the minute I married him.  We rushed into marriage only after knowing each other a year but I stuck with it and we had 2 children together, he was violent and always put me down at every given opportunity.  I finally had enough when he started an affair with my so called best friend at the time.  That was something I just couldnt ignore.  Thing was I wasnt innocent in that marriage, I looked for affection elsewhere but it always felt hollow.  In the end I had the courage to end the marriage and I walked away with as much dignity as possible. 
    I then met husband number 2, this time I didnt rush into marriage, I took my time and we got married after 3 years of being together.  I vowed that this marriage wasnt ever going to be like my first and I made a promise to myself to be faithful to him.  For 3 years our marriage was great we had a child between us and I was pregnant with his 2nd child that he wanted more than I did, I love all my children and I wouldnt be without my youngest but that aside I was happy with how it was with just 3.  Anyway, when I was 6 months pregnant he had an affair with someone he worked with, he wasnt very clever at hiding it and I always found him out but I stuck my head in the sand and forgave him every time I found out more.  He stopped the affair and we tried to patch up the ruins of our marriage, sometimes it was good but he was very possessive and controlling, he was always worried that I would get him back for what he did and I was beginning to resent him.  I started to think of myself and decided that I was going to lose weight and I began to build some confidence, something he hated.  Its been nearly 3 years since his affair and I finally had enough of his ways and asked him to leave last October.  It was really hard to do but I did it and now I am more happier.
    Emily, I think your wrong in saying that your not strong enough to go it alone, I think it just scares you.  Unfortunately, how this sounds to me is that you settled for second best in marrying your husband,  probably because he made you feel secure and safe.  You sound like you crave the wild life but only if you have a security blanket to catch you should you fall.  Its not fair on both of you, but to be honest I think that hes not stupid and he knows the real reason you married him, he also probably knows that your not really that happy, hes probably just as scared as you.
    The only other thing I want to say to both of you is that your children are growing up thinking that this is what marriage is like and they will repeat your mistakes in their own adult life.  You cant let that happen to them.
    But at the end of the day you both have to make decisions that are right for you.  You can get all the advice you can on here but no-one can make those decisions for you.  You are both in my thoughts, Looby x

    Sat 7, Feb 2009 at 8:41pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi Emily, sorry you are having a down time at the moment. Me too. We are in many ways like to peas in a pod. I know I married my husband for the wrong reasons as previously mentioned and whilst its not been a bad marriage at all it lacks a level I now crave. I spend as much time as possible out with girlfriends (not the wife of my other) and probably drink too much on those occasions.
    I have made a decision. This week I want to talk to my other about our situation. Then make my next move based on that. I think the best choice is to ask my husband for a trial separation as then I will be able to work out if I want him in my life or not. Very scared though but do realise it would be better to split without going into the arms of my other. The fall out would be immense and not sure who out of my friends would stick by me.
    I got myself into this and only I can get myself out of it. I really dont think I can live with my husband regardless of whether it could work, as the guilt is too much to get over.
    You said I dont have to mention the guys name, are you therefore suggesting to say I have fallen for someone else?
    write soon.

    Sun 8, Feb 2009 at 5:01pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Ladies, a rather amazing thing happened yesterday. We had a nice family outing together and then came home and after putting kids in bed, my husband and I enjoyed a film together with we had red wine. We also managed to have a litttle chat about our differences, what we want in life and we also talked about our good and negative points and what we like to improve on.
    I was surprised that I enjoyed our togetherness just as much, in fact it has many more advantages than when I was cuddling with William. I started focus of the positive points being with my husband and then think about the negative side with William.
    For e.g. I have to travel a distance to be with William, the amount of time, energy and petrol just to get away to see him all add up and now has worn me out. Cuddling with William and those few hours with him were great and romantic, felt good and I certainly felt desired and sexy but I fast forward to the drive home when I felt confused, immoral, little self worth and wonder if I am being used. Once home, disappearing in the shower, to scrape every guilt off me whilst tucking my kids to bed, wondering what they would say if they know what mummy has been up to. Then having to look at my husband in the eye and imagine the pain if he knows what I had been doing. Then spending the next few days wondering if William is going to see me next weekend again, if he is really missing me, if he has another girl back in his penthouse when I am not there, if he is having a laugh at me and why do I still feel insecure and uncertain with him?
    Oh, all those negative things with him were constantly on my mind and stressing me out. I hate having to wait for his call or text, I hate reading between the lines of his texts or emails and being paranoid when he put a few less kisses.
    But before me is a man who has been with me the last ten years through thick and thin, seen me at my worse, held my hand through labour pain and still wanting to spend the rest of his life with me; this stressed out cow who regularly shouts and screams, made little effort to please him (yet scrubbed up sexily and made every effort when I was with William). Oh, why am I so stupid?
    The man before me has seen me at my worse, in unsexy plain nightgown or old oversized tee and old socks, yet he still adores me for who I am. William has only seen the very pretty and sexy sight of me. Would he still be keen if he sees me through the eyes of my husband?
    Suzzy, what I have done last few days was to repeat to myself "William doesnt owe me happiness". Just because I was unhappy at home, i shouldn't expect him to come and fill up  my life with joy. I think about the glass being half full rather than half empty. And I want to concentrate on the things I have in my life rather than what I don't have or could have in my life.
    Suzzy, you are still confused and at lost. May I suggest before you speak to your husband about trial separation, you speak to your lover. Ask him what he wants out of this relationship with you, ask him if he has any plan to be together with you. If he is honest and tell you he can't leave his family, then at least you know the truth and the truth hurts. When the cruel truth is thrown at your face, you might realise why should you be ready to give up on your family when this man can't even give up his? Even he knows that his family is priority and that is where his heart is.
    Yes, only you can get yourself out of this. For a long time I thought I cant continue with my husband anymore too that I was so attracted to another man and possibly even in love with someone else, I really want out. But now I realise I was only off the rail, life is a roller coaster and I was hitting the pit, but now I am glad and very surprised that I am picking up again. And I hope to hold my family together with pride, love and to protect them fiercely.
    Time is a healer. I still feel low at times but at least now I am much more clearer with my thoughts and what I want. Remember think of the stress you are having, is it worth it? If its not heading anywhere, your affair is just time and energy wasting. Instead of thinking of the sweet delightful feeling, think of any negative points with your lover and then for once, focus on the positive points with your husband. Write soon, Suzzy.

    Mon 9, Feb 2009 at 12:35pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi all.  don't mean to break into your discussion, but I wanted to tell you a little about my situation because it started off like yours.  I am married (no kids) and I was having an affair with a married woman for 2 years.  We both talked and talked about leaving our spouses and what we should do.  It was magical and we did everything together.  It was wonderful and I felt (feel?) that she was my soul mate.
    I won't bore you with the details but because I waited so long to make a decision (about whether to stay in my marriage or really dedicate myself to being with her), she broke it off and I was devastated.  Eventually she missed me too and came back, but in the meantime had become pregnant with her husband's child.  I desperately then told her that I would leave my marriage if she only got an abortion and left her husband which of course by that point had become much much harder (and because I had waited so long she didn't really believe me anyway).
    In the meantime, my wife found some emails I had written to myself as a journal and read all about how I was fantasizing/thinking about leaving and about my thoughts.
    My life is now hell.  My wife is barely speaking to me and I have lost the opportunity to leave as she is staying and having her baby.
    Be careful.  I feel for all of you and I wish you all the best.  Be careful.  I have devastated a wonderful woman and lost any opportunity to leave with any grace anyway.
    Please be careful I beg of you all.

    Tue 10, Feb 2009 at 2:25am
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi to the writer above, thank you for writing in. It is good to hear from a man's point of view because we women tend to find men are difficult to read as they are not very expressive in words.
    Two years is rather a long time to have an affair without being found out and if it drags on for as long as two years, it is unlikely that both of the involved will actually leave their actual partners due to each own circumstances.
    You won't bore us with details, its good to talk about it and for us to know we are not the only one going through such confusion/mid life crisis/dilemma in life. I am sorry that your fife has found some evidence. I am pretty careless too, I have somehow still kept the hundreds of text messages William sent to me in my phone folder, just for memories sake but I know eventually when I am ready, I will wipe it all off. Meanwhile, there is always a risk of my husband finding out.
    What will you do to try to repair the damage with your wife? Have you gotten over your lover? Does it hurt when it end? How long has it been?

    Tue 10, Feb 2009 at 8:07am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All,
    I am in the exactly same situation as Emilysmiles. He was my co-work, younger than me, single and lived in a bachelor life. I have 2 kids. We are attracted to each other from day one when we start working together back 3 years ago.
    The reason that I have decided to cross the line is that I had almost sexless marriage. I am the only woman my husband ever had in his whole life. And we waited to have sex after we got marriage because we are from a traditional country. He does not know how to make love, and does not show interests in learning it. He is a “2 minutes” guy, I have never experienced orgasm with my husband. I have been “satisfying” myself  in all the past years. (if you know what I mean), I feel half empty in my marriage. But the thing is that my husband is a caring person. He loves me dearly and treated well.
    Anyways, my affair started two years ago, I had experienced wonderful things with my lover. Everything is amazing. – All good memories. At one point he was asking me to get out of my marriage and live with him, but I knew it would not be practical – after all, it is reality. We can not live in the fantasy world. So I just told him that I would love to if I do not have my kids. So it ended three months ago because he wanted to start a family – see I am not available although I love to only if I have known him 10 years ago!!!.
    It is a pity of life, and the pain I have gone through was really unbearable at the beginning. I have been depressed. I still think about him a lot, but I am trying to stay no contact, I love him enough to let him go, I love him enough to wish him the best and move on with his own life. I do not blame or angry to anyone, it is what it is, there is nothing that I can not or he can do to change it. --- I have had a life before we met, which is not prefect but real. I am thankful that in my life I have loved and have enjoyed what a woman suppose to enjoy in my life, -- although it is only a short period of time. I will always hold special place in my heart for all the memories that we share.
    He has moved on and have a girlfriend now, he shared the picture, to my surprise, the girl looks so much like myself in a way. --- how he feels now, and whether he thinks about me once a while remains mystery, I guess, he has all the right to have what ever he wants from life. I have tried to stay as friend but I could not, It hurts badly…so to avoid it, I cut off all the contact and told him stop contact me in anyways. – I need to move on and deserve to be happy again too!
    As far as my marriage, I am planning on working with husband on our sexual life after the withdraw period is over. In fact, I am doing better each day. I did not realize how deep I was in that relationship until it was over. I am switching my focus back to my kids and my husband now, hopefully I can be happy again as back two years ago soon..
    The way I see affair now is: 1. Do not overdo it, 2.Enjoy and cherish it, 3. be thankful to your lover. 4. Respect each other and let go when either one of you want to move on.
    Good luck to all, and thanks for sharing.

    Tue 10, Feb 2009 at 5:07pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Dear Jenny, thanks for writing in. We were in quite a similar position. I am now trying to turn around my affair into something positive by acknowleding that my marriage needs help. 
    Sometimes I thought with a sigh.  I thought what a waste to let go William who is sexy, trendy, well spoken and well dressed (but then i would be more stupid to let go my marriage to a good husband and break up my family for what could have been a short term relationship to him). I actually think we looked good together and anyone can tell there was a chemistry between us from afar. He was really everything I wanted in a guy all my life. But such is William. Persistent and full on when pursuing but move on quickly and wouldnt cry over spilt milk once its over.
    He's shown me what the "real world" out there is like. He's given me a short term of happiness and amazing time but also enough stress and negativity which frankly I could do without.
    Sex with him was amazing and mind blowing. To have had something so good in my life has a downside. Which means anything I have thereafter has now become secondary in comparison. But then when I think that I may just be one of the many girls he has, I felt disillusioned and blinded. How could I naively believe this could have been my one true love? How many hearts has he broke?
    Jenny, I understand sometimes its hard to remain as friends especially if you still carry a torch for him. For now, I rather have zero contact with William, I don't want to know what he is up to, which girl he is now seeing. I think back and all I can see is a blurred vision of dream-like images with him. It was as though it was something that had never happened. I was on the brink of walking out from my marriage for him. I was building images in my head to move in with him with my kids and imagining him playing the perfect stepdad role. What a fool I had been.
    The fact that he has now given up and stop contact with me shows he has little staying power and wasn't really that keen with me.  But in a strange way, I am secretly relief as it has helped me to move on. And I haven't lost everything. I still have my family with me, they are obviously and clearly the most important people in my life. All the best to you, Jenny.

    Tue 10, Feb 2009 at 7:07pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Although sometimes I think the same way as you described about my friend. I maybe one of the many, he may not care as much a I do, but all in all, I would prefer to be positive and understanding. At least, for the past two years, he only had me, his family tried to hook him up with some single girl, he could not do it because he had me in his life, just recently, he moved to another city and had moved on, I do not blame him, I support what he is doing as if he is my own brother.
    What I can offer him is probably also a half empty life because my kids will take the other half, he deserves better than that. We joked about this all the time: we will defiantly be married and have lots of babies if we knew each other 10 years ago and I am 10 years younger, that is only fantasy talking. There is no way we can make it true. He is very handsome and we are good match on many ways. It is just bad timing in life. We missed each other although we got so close at one point of our lives. I believe this happens a lot in life. What can you do? – cherish the memory and move on. It is very painful to let go.
    I agree, 0 contact it the only way to move on. We still work for the same boss and can “see” him everyday in the IM contact. I still can not help to check if he is online or not. But I have stayed no contact for the past week. It is hard.
    As far as working on marriage. I think we are on the same boat except, I have no idea if I am capable of repairing and improving my marriage to the point that I can be fulfilled, sounds like that you have a better quality of marriage than me. My husband is very numb about relationships, which makes it hard to work with. The desire of enjoying a marriage is too different between us. I have lived half empty marriage and do not know what I can do to fulfill the other half. I am still in my 30s, I have desire of sex, but I hardly can get any from my husband. But I need a husband, not old brother or a father. – It hurts when I think about it. Compare what I had with my friend. It made it harder. I do not where to start. I could use some advice in this aspect if  you have any.
    At worst case, I will have to wait another 10 years before my kids are in college, then I may be able to get out of the marriage and find real happiness? Or never? I do not know.

    Tue 10, Feb 2009 at 7:59pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I wrote above about my two year affair (I am a male).  It is very fresh.  Basically two weeks since we last spoke.  I am crushed.  I can barely carry on a conversation or function.  I miss her every second of every day.  And yet I know it was never real and that she is now pregnant and in no way will leave.  I say that but still can't believe it.
    As for what I will do to repair my life with my wife, I have no idea.  I am trying to make up for it and yet desperately miss my AP.
    I would do anything to go back and do this over again.  Anything.

    Tue 10, Feb 2009 at 9:52pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    To the above writer, I am surprised to see it can have as strong impact to a man as well. I am sorry you are going through this pain. – you are not alone, and if your wife is having your baby, try to think about you soon will be a proud dad. At least that is something to look forward to.
    Honestly, I am crashed too, although I was trying so hard to think everything positively. The pain is still so fresh, I can not stop thinking about him. And everywhere I go, I can not help trying to find someone who looks like him, but I could not find anyone as prefect as he looks. And I can not stop thinking about that he is enjoying great time with his new girl friend, that thought alone is killing me. I do not know how long it will take me to get over this. – I keep telling myself, I am doing better each day, in fact sometimes I am not sure.
    It is so painful!. I ask God for forgiveness and give me the power to heal and forget.


    Wed 11, Feb 2009 at 12:05am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Jenny, I'm that anonymous writer above again (I'll call myself CrazyIvan for lack of a better name).
    Yes, it can have this impact on a man as well.  I know exactly what you mean and can precisely identify with your pain.  If it is anything like mine, I am truly sorry.  I hate it when people say "I know exactly how you feel" but in this case, I promise I do.
    And unfortunately, it isn't my wife who is having the baby, it is the woman I was having an affair with.  We broke up and she came back and told me how much she missed me but that she had gotten pregnant in the meantime.  She said she'd broken up with me because I hadn't (in effect) made any real effort to choose her and tell her that I wanted to be with her 100% and for both of us to leave our marriages.  I didn't.  She didn't either, but I didn't.  I don't know why.  I didn't believe her, I felt to afraid, I don't know.  I just couldn't and didn't. 
    Then she came back and I told her I wanted her to leave, but it was too late.  She couldn't leave him and have an abortion.  Eventually she told me we should go our separate ways because I couldn't handle day after day seeing her pregnant and knowing she was having a family that didn't include me.  I still can't.  I can't believe she's having his child.  And I can't really believe this is me and not some Jerry Springer show or something.
    And I couldn't really make the choice NOT to be with her either.  She had to do that.  And in the meantime my wife found out I'd been fantasizing about her.  I couldn't be strong enough to make either decision and now I'm in hell.
    I feel all of your pain, I really do.  This can definately happen to a man and in my case, it has devasted me.  Although I have, myself, made a mess of this situation and pushed away one woman and been completely careless with the feelings of another.
    All I'm saying is I hope that you all will be stronger than me and decide what is best for you or at least what seems like the best option.  I only wish that I had been able to make a choice and leave the dignity of these two women (and my own in fact) intact and be kind to all involved.  I'm so lost as to how to regain any of that right now.

    Wed 11, Feb 2009 at 1:36am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    For your situation. I am not sure why you stay in your marriage if you do not have feelings for your wife and you do not have kids (do not recall you mention you have), maybe you missed this woman you love now, but you may find someone better in the future and make sure you are single and available before you pursue. My point is you have to be honest to yourself, and both you and your wife deserve happiness.  I do not how old you are, but why wait if you are not happy anyways?  
    I’d like to share my life story with you if you are interested, maybe it will help you see things differently.
    I was married very young and it was my Mom who thinks he is good enough for me. And I had very low self esteem and was not sure if anyone else would love me. And I was told that a woman will be happy if her husband loves her.
    Shortly after we were married, I felt sick when I looked at my husband. I realize I did not love him, I got pregnant right after we married. Then life took control, I was busy with kids, jobs, house keeping and cooking for so many years. And we fight all the times,..all the times. But never thought about device as no one in my family or his family has done that. The term was on in our dictionary.
    But think back, if I had know how much was missing in my marriage and how much one should enjoy from his/her marriage, I would have devoiced long time ago. I probably be much happier than I am now.
    Only because I have never been honest to myself and never take control of my life, I let life take me wherever it does. After all the years, all the sudden, I met this guy and he has showed me how a real couple should be: physically attracted, chemical between each other, then the sex life – the basic glue of a relationship. All these are missing from my marriage. I have been married for 16 years now. I wish I had ended my marriage 15 years ago. And had a different life. Now I have two lovely boys, but the environment that we provided them never healthy. You can imagine I am mad all the times even before the affair.
    I feel bad for my husband, I was not honest to both of us when we were married. And he has never be loved the way he should have been. – A poor life for both of us. Maybe it is too late!
    I am a good Mom, I do everything I can for my kids, but I can not pretend I am happy all the time as I am not. It was easier when the kids are younger, they kept my mind busy, I do not think too much and got numb, now they have grown up. I stared wonder what kind of life that I have had?  
    I do not have the confidence that we will make things better. I may have to stay for another 10 years, and I am afraid it will be too late. I am stuck.
    Anyways, hope I did not bore you all. I do not know what value my story will provide, but this is something that I had nowhere to vent out, I never told my husband any of these feelings.
    Thanks for reading.




    Wed 11, Feb 2009 at 2:53am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Jenny, thank you very much for sharing your story!  I had just written a whole reply but it got deleted somehow, so I'll try another one.
    First, your story is not boring at all.  It very much helps to hear from you and others about these issues.
    I sound very very much like you.  I also was petrified to get married and delayed it as long as I could.  I really wasn't sure but went through with it because I really deep down thought that I was in love and I was scared of never finding anyone who really would want to marry me.  My wife is a wonderful, kind, supportive (so supportive) woman who would do anything for me.  Deep down why was I so afraid of getting married?  Should that have told me something?  There's more but I'll spare you the details.
    Anyway, the woman that I had the affair with was/is also married.  If my self-esteem was higher maybe I wouldn't have picked her.  I never told her "look, I just want you, let's be together".  She never said it either.  Why?  She told me at one point that I am the man and its my job.  I kept trying to make her tell me she was serious and figure out if she was for real.  But to be honest even if I'd been 100% sure I don't know that I honestly could have left.  I am petrified of doing anything.  I really thought that there was no way she really loved me and no way if she did choose me she would want to stay with me.  I couldn't believe her even though I tried and tried to get her to "show" me.
    I don't know.  She said she was terribly depressed when she found out she was pregnant.  She was scared.  She said at one point that she loved me and was having her husband's baby.  So why did she ultimately say she couldn't have an abortion and leave him?  She still was asking me how she could trust me that I wouldn't want to go back to my wife.  I still couldn't convince her even though I kept saying how much I wanted her and that I would leave.  I AGAIN couldn't believe her and this time she told me she couldn't leave and it was too late and she couldn't have an abortion.  Even though every time I pointed out to her that she was pregnant she said "don't talk about that.  That's gross".  She wanted to ignore it.  I wanted to.  SO SO badly.  Eventually I couldn't.  Neither could she.
    I don't know.  Why didn't I tell her years ago that we should be together.  What do I do now?  I'm lost and terrified and have lost the option, so....
    And your story certainly isn't boring.  Vent away, please.  I certainly just did.

    Wed 11, Feb 2009 at 5:22am
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi its me, I am going through a low period again. I wonder if its the same with Jenny and Ivan, do you sometimes feel you are coping OK but ther eare times you feel a dip with your mood and started missing that person again?
    Like Jenny, everywhere I go I kept thinking someone looks or dresses like him. Anyone with his height and size reminds me of him. I look at my husband (who is good looking in his own but very different way) and I just couldn't feel the attraction anymore. My husband and him are both very different physically and for me to feel such great attraction to the other means I find it difficult to find my husband as attractive anymore. That is important to me because it affects the bedroom department.
    Although I have now stopped contact with William (its been a week) and tried to make good with my husband at home but I still don't want to be intimate with my husband. That is because sex has been amazing with William and I can't help but know I will compare. It's not that my husband is hopeless but its to do with chemistry and physical/sexual attraction.
    Sometimes I wonder if it was my fault to push William into commitment so soon. We have only started seeing each other for a few months, things were so good between us, why do I have to push him into promising a future that soon when I am still not divorced. Perhaps I should have let it develop a bit more before raising such big topic with him.
    I have doubts with William only because I couldn't believe someone bachelor and as good as him can still be serious with a married mum like me. Perhaps I should have given him the benefit of a doubt. I should have known a sensitive guy like him could be upsetted by telling him I can't see a future together with him. I also told him I am scared to leave my marriage. No wonder he backs off, knowing it is unlikely I will leave my marriage and he is feeling more like a third party carrying the guilt. So in a way, I shouldn't really blame him...I should have kept my mouth shut and not to speak such sensitive issues so soon.
    It's awful. Am I staying in the marriage for the wrong reason? I am scared to leave my marriage because my husband provides security blanket. Now without William clouding my judgement, I would like to know if I really am happy staying in the marriage. At this low point I can tell you if William contacts me again, I will respond. But I will not initiate.
    Ian, from a man's point of view, is the bedroom department with your wife affected? Do you still find your wife sexually attractive? Although my husband still wants to be intimate with me but I think I want to leave that out for now because I can't bear to compare the chemistry level.
    Write soon.

    Wed 11, Feb 2009 at 9:33am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Emily.  Ivan again.  Yes, I have ALL of the same feelings as you.  My situation is quite complicated and "the bedroom department" with my wife is CERTAINLY affected.  There are many levels to this however.  As I think I might have mentioned, she read some journal enteries that I had written fantasizing about J (my affair partner), so there is a HUGE trust issue from her point of view.
    To tell you the truth I'd been concentrating so much on the sex with J (which was incredible.  We just worked together) that I'd really neglected trying to focus any passion on my wife.  I can see how I wanted passion FROM her so badly and I never did very much to create it.
    On the other hand, it was just there with J.  It just was.  No asking for anything no trying to create anything.  It just was.  I wonder if she has that with her husband.  I suppose she must have created some passion because she got pregnant with his child right?
    Emily, I have all of the same thoughts as you.  I pushed her to see if she would leave without really knowing in my heart of hearts if I would.  I know you miss William and how you feel with him, but if you think you see him everywhere now, imagine if you'd been with him for over 2 years.  I can barely go a few minutes without feeling the agony of not being with J and knowing how badly I've screwed this situation up.  My heart was torn for so long and still is.  I still hold on to a relationship with her even though we aren't speaking.  I still wonder "what if" even though she is pregnant with his child and having a family.
    I am certainly not one to take advice from given how poorly I've handled everything.  But if I had it all to do over again I would make sure FIRST that I gave my marriage my all and focused on it 100% so I would know if it was workable or not.  I would either stay with my wife with dignity or leave with dignity.
    I do not have the choice now.  I have destroyed my possibilities with J.  I wonder what she is doing and how she is feeling.   Is she missing me?  Does she think she made the right choice?  It doesn't really matter because she is having a family with him and as hard as I tried I just couldn't over look that.  I need to just let her go somehow and wish her happiness.  Her child will need her love and need happy parents.  I need to accept, but I can't.  Not yet.
    Emily, please please please focus on your husband and try to figure out your marriage before its too late.  Be kind to him whether you decide to stay or leave and also be kind to William.  I pushed and pushed J and never actually committed to her myself.  I pushed her and pushed her and remember one weekend where she was to go skiing with her husband and I told her I didn't want her to go.  She said "Ok, I won't go but you know what that means" and I hemmed and hawed and eventually told her, no you should go.  Now what kind of message was I sending?
    There is much more to my story and I am filled with guilt and shame.  Emily, you sound like a wonderful person and you sound so much like me, but not yet so advanced.  I hope that my story can give you some foresight into what could happen.
    Please be careful and protect yourself.  But also look out for others around you that your actions and feelings will affect.  I didn't and I don't know how to live with that.

    Wed 11, Feb 2009 at 6:29pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Thanks for sharing. Had a busy day at work….but had hard time to concentrate ---definitely not functioning well. I am sorry that you have to go through this as well, but meantime it is kind of comfort to know I am not alone.
    Emily, I am also going through ups and downs even between mornings and afternoons sometime. I hate this and do not want to live like this miserable. I wish I could fast forward life into 5 years, so I can skip the pain.
    In my case, I always knew that devoice is not an option, and I will not be available for my friend (I will cal him M).
    I always tell him he needs to get a girl and get married because I know he will be happier if he does. I know he is lonely when I am not around, he plays games and watch movies in his small dark apartment. I feel sorry for him sometimes when I walk out of his apartment. You may not believe this, I was the one who put an AD on a newspaper for him, that is how he got his girlfriend. My problem if I never expect this terrible feelings after all this is over really over. I did not know how deep I was involved and he had become such an important part of my life until he left.
    I do not have regrets, I do not blame anyone, I did all what I can do for him and for myself, it ended the best way it could.
    Sometime I wonder: how strong this kind of relationship can be? I can not imagine to put my kids to the picture. at least for my case. I do not think it will work. They do not belong together, It will be much more complicated when there are kids involved, they can totally destroy the “Chemistry”. It is almost like mixing Chocolate with some vinegar and hot paper, you will not be able to tell what it will be like.
    Let’s focus on what we have and try to make the best out of it. Do not give up too easy.
    Emily I have read a few stories from other people who are in the same situation as us with kids. There is nothing good come out of it. I did not mean to discourage you. But like Ivan said, be careful.
    May God give us strength.

    Thu 12, Feb 2009 at 3:18am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Not written for a while. My situation has now gone from bad, then to ok as we both realised our feelings were very strong but not enough, to complete breakdown. His wife got a phone call from someone unknown telling her her husband was having an affair, no mention of me by name. Who??????
    After a frantic phone from him to me, he went home to face the music, though we are both denying only saying we are close friends who have confided in each other as both our marriages are in trouble.
    This morning he tells me that she accepts this but is not to happy I know so much. They have had a talk but in the end, both our marriages are like a mirror image of each other. He has told her what I told my h, that whilst he loves her, not in that way, like a sister.
    Now I wait for the confrontation I know is coming, and am scared (own doing though). I have to not know about the phone call etc, she must not know I spoke to him today or yesterday.
    My husband does not understand why I am so worked up over this. I have told him about the rumour, rightly or wrongly.
    How did it come to this, after all, it is over.

    Thu 12, Feb 2009 at 9:19am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Firstly Suzzy, you're nearly in danger zone. Whoever made this phone call must know about you two and it is only a matter of very close time that it will be disclosed that you are the other woman. This is going to be very nasty and stressful because women talk/gossip and playground gossip spread like bushfire and it can affect your innocent kids/schooling life. Then it could be up to a point where you feel you have to move out of the area to start anew. Well, what I am saying is, you really have to deal with it rightaway. You have to start thinking hard how to protect yourself now from all these nastiness which is about to come out. First wise thing to do is to STOP ALL CONTACT with him. Now that his wife had the phone call, she will be more suspicious of his movement now. If you don't want to be caught red handed, then you two have to stop all contact (I like to add FROM NOW but knowing its difficult, let me say FOR NOW). Let the rumours die down first. During this period, have some time to think wisely. First, for your kids. Then, for yourself/marriage. You have to take care of your reputation and of your family's. Suzzy, no time to let your heart rules your head now. You have to think wisely and smartly now. Write soon.
    Ivan, I know the longer I drag on with W, the more difficult it is to come out of it. That is why I brought up the commitment issue with him because I need to get straight to the point; Is there a future? If not, I rather not waste time and take anymore risks. The more I am with him, the stronger I felt for him. Of course your two year affair is deeper than my few months of affair with W. But I felt the pain and my heart broke just the same. But its not too bad. Today I felt better than yesterday. I went through a lot of "what could have been" or "if only". Ivan, though J sleeps with her husband, I am sure its not the same as it had been with you. Sex with the lover usually is much more thrilling because of the excitement and sensation with someone new/different.  I think I am doing the right thing to avoid intimacy with my husband "for now" until I am completely over W. Then i will slowly try to build the passion up with my husband. I am putting a bit more effort at home and been shopping for a valentine gift for my husband too. I am really trying hard to see if I can be happy in my marriage again.
    Jenny, yours is a case of "to love someone is to set them free". You sound very much in a very trapped marriage. Is your husband a lot older than you? How are things like at home? Do you two get on generally well otherwise? Is he a good father? My husband is a great father, that is why I stayed. I see many good side in him, which is the reason why I find it difficult to leave him.
    I dont think its difficult for W to find a girl (whether its the right girl or not is another question). He's near perfect in my eyes (and I am sure to many girls). It's not everyday I meet a guy that I could fall for who also happens to live in a stunning penthouse. Push material thing aside, I am firstly and mostly attracted to his looks and personality. Even if he has an average lifestyle, I would still be very attracted to him. The sad thing is in my perfect dream world, I want to live my life like that with someone like him. That would be what I call "living my dream life". I did for a moment. And shame that I have to wake up and face the real world. Now even if I "look around", i won't be able to find one like him. I sometimes wonder "is he too good to give up?".
    I would never forget our last meeting, we were both sitting talking about our position and he was holding both my hands tightly throughout our two hours chat and looking at me deep into my eyes with such emotions.  And at the end of it, he told me he felt really low.
    Part of me don't want him to give up. I want him to pursue. I want him to tell me he loves me. But I suppose if he has a right mind and sense with him (which clearly he has), he knows its not worth pursuing someone's wife who has admitted she is scared of leaving the marriage. I have to keep telling myself "Life goes on". With a sigh.

    Thu 12, Feb 2009 at 10:46am
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    p.s: That was me. I forgot to log myself in! Emily.

    Thu 12, Feb 2009 at 10:47am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    She knows it is me that came round to the house on the morning in question as he has told her that I popped in!

    Thu 12, Feb 2009 at 10:52am
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Suzy, you best start to think of ways on how to get out of this mess now. This is really close call.

    Thu 12, Feb 2009 at 11:04am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    We are simply denying it. There can be no proof anywhere so I guess it comes down to her believing him and my husband believing me.

    Thu 12, Feb 2009 at 11:06am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I have found below writing from a website. Would like to share it with you. It helps me to see things differently.
    Just admit it to yourself: he's not as great a guy as you thought he was, he was insensitive and selfish and wrapped up in his own needs; he is FLAWED, f*cked upSeeing him for who he really is rather than the romanticized version of him you have in your heart must happen in order for you to let go enough that you aren't eaten alive by resentment and feeling like he victimized you. He is just a man, a flawed human, and you entered his sphere of f*cked-up-ness and got burned because you have your own human flaws and foibles and got caught up in something you probably knew you should have left alone.None of us go through life perfectly, nor do we make all the right choices, nor do we treat others perfectly. Part of your resentment and anger at him is resentment and anger at yourself for being stupid enough to get involved with the kind of guy who could treat you as he did, for not recognizing it sooner, for continuing to stay when you were unhappy and saw that he was treating you badly. Forgive yourself and you'll see that your resentment toward him fades as well.
    In fact, I think for relationships like this, it is hard to really get to know each other because both parties want to make the time as enjoyable as possible, we want to show all the best quality that we have to the other person: good looking, nice talking caring and all the good stuff. This leads us to the opsite shock one day when it is all over: you feel like you do not really know each other. And keep asking how can he/she do this to me. But think about it, what else can he do? Everything has to come to a end regardless how good/bad it is.
    In my case, we have counted how much time we have had spent together in the past two years before we broke it off,-- more than hundred times, each 2-3-4 hours. Every time when we are together, we know we will be apart soon. So this makes it a special experience every single time. I am asking myself lately, how much do I really know him? – I am not sure.
    All I am trying to tell myself is : “you have had a beautiful dream, it is time to wake up and do your daily job! – take care of you family and be happy again!”
    Just want to through some thoughts out of there.

    Thu 12, Feb 2009 at 7:18pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    The above is from Jenny. If I knew as much as I know what others have gone through in this category, I would have ended my affair much earlier with a much easier withdraw time. But who would come to Google this topic if they are not in need of release! J

    Thu 12, Feb 2009 at 7:26pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Emily, here is the answer to your questions:
    Jenny, yours is a case of "to love someone is to set them free".
    You sound very much in a very trapped marriage. Is your husband a lot older than you? – NO, we are same age, but I look 10 years younger than my husband. I love sports, am very active.
    How are things like at home?
    My husband adores me, he never complains, he hardly get mad at me at all. So my affair has made nightmares for my little boy, all my anger at home went to him, he is always in trouble because I have lost patient, lost focus and is miserable at home for the past half year. – what a selfish, stupid and witch Mom he has!! I am shamed, very very shamed. I am in a process of switching my focus to my sons and my husband. Things are getting better.
    Do you two get on generally well otherwise?
    Is he a good father? He is a wonderful father and a wonderful husband too except lake of knowledge of how to please a woman L

    Thu 12, Feb 2009 at 7:58pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi Jenny, thanks for writing back.  I like the article you copied and paste, yes, W is not as great guy as I projected him to be. I am just having a romantic vision of him but I know he is just really another human being like any of us.
    I am feeling better today although must admit I had a dream of him last night. I can't believe it, I woke up thinking how sad am I! Believe it or not , my child asked me last night "why are you not chatting to that guy on the computer anymore, mummy?  That one that you always chatted with?" I was shocked that my child notices that and the comment was made quite loud whilst my husband was around the house. So I said "No more chatting to my friend from now onwards." And my child said, "Why? Have you broken up with him?" I just couldn't believe what I heard from my young child.  That just shows they notice things like that at home...
    I realise I don't know W as much anymore. I am tempted to stay as friends with him but I can't be bothered to initiate contact. I know he stays friends with all his exes and eventually we will be able to be friends again but for now, its really best to stay away from each other.
    I realise there is no emotional fulfillment in my relationship with W. Sexual and physical fulfillment yes but no real emotional fulfillment. It was all time wasting and I am glad its over now before dragging it any deeper only to cause more pain for myself.

    Fri 13, Feb 2009 at 10:45am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I agree, I had idealized my friend M too. Still my heart want to continue to keep his prefect image – I am fighting with myself all the time. My feeling to M is very similar as you have for W. In fact, at the beginning, he was over weight and during the time he pursues me, he started working out because I am very active physically. It was a good influence. He lost more than 50 pounds and looked so much better before we broke. On one hand, I am glad that I made difference in him in a good way, on the other, it made it harder for me to forget him as he is so “prefect” now.
    I dream about him a lot, and sometimes even about his baby. I still miss him so much although I know “to love him enough to set him free”. I think I need to do the same things for myself, I just could not set myself free from this mess. But I am working on it.
    Children are much more sensitive than what we think, they see things. I feel bad for my young son that he has to suffer from this crisis. I am working on repair the damages that this has caused on him, but I am afraid what will be left un-repairable. I am ashamed.
    I have not contacted M for almost two weeks. It is good although it hurt like hell when I think about him. I have to manage not to think about him often, I go to gym three times a week, just had a planned 8 weeks fitness training program for myself. Hopefully 8 weeks later, I will look and feel much better than I am now!
    Stay NC is the only way. we deserve to be set free and be happy again. It takes wisdom and strength!
    Ivan, how is your situation?

    Fri 13, Feb 2009 at 2:35pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Jenny, with Valentine Day tomorrow, I can't help but feeling sad again. As I said, my feelings go up and down.  And now I am feeling a little sad thinking about him again because I still miss him, in particular his cuddles.  I couldn't bring myself to hug or cuddle my husband because all it does is to remind me of W even more.  I am like taking two steps forward and one step back.
    Jenny, it seems that you have inspired M a lot and he has change his lifestyle since being with you, all for the better. Of course its more difficult to forget him especially now that he is nearly perfect with the image too.
    With W, I love the way he looks. We both match with our height and size. We are both slender in figure and look very matching together. My husband plays the rugby and he has a rugby player's body wherease I am very slender. When I cuddle up with W, I fit in his arms perfectly and we just clicked in place beautifully. Our hands fit beautifully in each other's too.
    It's been one and half week without W now. I really wonder if he misses me and still longs to pick up the phone to get in touch. Surely he can't erase me off just like that?
    As for my marriage, I look at my husband every day and I kept asking myself "can I be happy with this man again?" Without W clouding my judgement, I really hope to find the answer for myself. But until I let W go (from my mind and heart), I will not be able to give my marriage its very best.
    Having said all that, I have been reasonable at home with my family. I did spend more time with the family by doing more family things together. Tomorrow is going to be awful because its Valentine Day and I am going to be thinking of W quite badly. Sigh.
    Suzy/Ivan, how are things?

    Fri 13, Feb 2009 at 4:48pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hello there, this is Jenny again.
    I wish I know how man normally handle this after a break off. In may case, I think it is more smooth on his side because I have clearly told him that I am not available and have suggested to get a girl and get married. Once he was telling me that since I was married in another country, it does not count, he assumes that I am single. I felt it was a good dream of his. The truth is I am not only married but also have kids.
    It is pity that we missed each other. I wish there is another life there we can be together. He said it will be mandatory for me to be in his wedding because I am so important to him. But I do not think it will do any good to both of us.
    I am convincing myself to turn over this page of my life and move on. I do not think I will be able to forget about it, the only way I can see is to wish him the best and keep him somewhere deeper in my heart.
    We both had good influence on each other, I have learned a lot from him too. He is a smart and lay back guy. We really get along well except at the very end after he start talking about other women that he is scanning for girlfriend. I got upset and did not enjoy the conversation. I told him it hurts and please do not tell me the dtails. He realized it and become very careful after that.
    So all is all, he is the first person in my life that I feel really attracted to. I wish him well and I pray for strength and inner peace for myself.
    yesterday , I could not help and called him, he did not pick up the phone. The last time last Monday, he IM me and asked me to call him as he was alone. He never liked the idea of NC. He was upset every time when I told him to go NC. He was very upset last when I told him, and he said he will respect my decision and will do what I told him to do. But now, the way I am struggling tells me that I have to make a clear break, NC
    Stay positive and we will get there. There is no other way—suffer the pain and get heal by time. We have made the choice without knowing the consequences. Is it worth it? – I do not know. At least no regret on my side.

    Fri 13, Feb 2009 at 9:29pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi emily,
    feeling really awful at mo. In contant fear of what the day will bring, will the whole thing calm down, or not. Both partners have accepted there is nothing going on but obviously things are very strained at both ends. There seems to be a need to find out who the caller was but as far as I am concerned the damage has been done, and to dig could make the situation worse if the full situation is revealed but not my choice.
    Feeling nervous and shakey all the time. Any one got any advice? please

    Sat 14, Feb 2009 at 12:25pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    if i help you maby you could help me
    the main question is do you love your husband? some relationships fade out i was with my sons mother 4 years and she ended it as she said she stopped loving me.
    you need to be happy and be the sound of it you are happy with this other person the kids will understand and will want you to be happy.
    i on the other hand am on the other side i have a 4 year old son and she had 4 year old girl and a 2 year old boy i known her for 4 years our 4 year old were brought up best friends 5 months ago i was told she liked me and txt flirted alot i had feeling for her since i first new her and she feels same way we told each other we love eachother and want to be together but her kids farther sitll lives there she told him it was over but he kicked up massive fuss and agreed to give it another chance as he will leave if didnt work out again but her heart not into it i feel like i being pashed to one side she tells me one think and shows me different and i dont like it as i love her so much i would do anything for her but i do want her to be happy she saiys she happy with me but we only see each other on the week end i stuck also.
    help for help good luck

    Sat 14, Feb 2009 at 2:56pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    No I am not in love with my husband anymore. I do love him, but in friendship way. Totally in love with my other but he does not feel the same way. All over and I am devestated. Not sure if you have read my previous, but he happens to be a friends husband which makes things worse. He does have very strong feelings for me, but his kids have always come first. Trouble is I am not coping at all well, feel as if I will breakdown and tell my husband everything! Cant cope with any more lies.
    For you I think, you need to tell her it is all or nothing. The only way my other can come back into my life even though I am so heartbroken is on this premise. She either wants you or not. Very hard I know but sometimes ...... I love my other with all my heart, but he simply does not want me enough.
    I know for me, my marriage is coming to an end. He suggests relate but in my view, you need to be honest at these sessions so I either refuse which seems unreasonable or tell him the truth which will obviously have implications on the other family. rock and hard place!

    Sat 14, Feb 2009 at 5:07pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi, its Valentine Day. Well, just another day for us here I suppose. I was expecting to feel really low today but I was busy with family outing so that kept my mind off W. A couple of times I secretly hope he will texts me or emails on this special day but no, so far nothing. So be it. That just shows. Anyway, I didn't sit at home wanting and dreaming of him forlornly. That is only because I am not the kind of person who is in "one sided love". If I think he has move on, then it makes me easier to move on because that just shows his feelings for me isn't as strong/deep as I wanted it to be. He gives up too easily and didn't, even on such a special day, bother to let me know he still cares for me.
    My husband, on the other hand, is someone who genuinely still want to be with me. Who enjoys a family day out like today, he is good with our kids and proud of us together as a family. I kept focussing on his positive side and all the security and stability with him. We have a lot of mutual friends too, so I suppose that helps as we regularly meet up with other couple/family friends socially and our friends are still very much together as families.
    Having said all that, I still have no interest on the intimacy side with my husband. I realise that being intimate with him will trigger off memories with W as the passion with W was intense and very thrilling/sexy. So I can't help but to avoid intimacy for now. I wonder if I can get the sparks back with my husband?
    Suzy, if you read my original article above, I wrote on my 2nd paragraph about a dad in the school confessing to me that he was attracted to me. When he confessed, I was flattered and I made a mistake by flirting with him (he is NOT W but he is my friend's husband). After nearly a month of intense flirting, I realised I wasn't interested in him but just flattered by the attention. So I snapped myself out of it and kept my distance. You won't believe it. Two days ago, I bumped into this dad and he told me he still thinks of me. I told him it was a mistake, the flirting shouldn't have happened and he looked so hurt and rejected. He said it wasn't a mistake, said he still thinks of me and misses me when he doesn't see me around. I said to him, "Well.... Don't." Honestly this dad annoys me BIG TIME. Last year, I made a stupid mistake by flirting with him (all because I was flattered by his attention) but really I expected him to move on, forget about it all but now it annoys and worries me that he still seems attracted to me. I don't want my friend to find out and think I am interested in her husband (He is not even my type!). I just want him to leave me alone and stop thinking about me! In fact I don't even want my kid to play with his kid now because of this. Suzy, I feel sorry that you are caught in this "too close for comfort" zone.  Suzy, even though nothing happened between this dad and I but I do have a slight fear that if he felt rejected, he might become obsessed or even revengeful by ruining my life. He doesnt seem to be that bad in person but you never know what some people are capable of! I wish the flirting never happened with "that dad/friend's husband". :(
    Jenny, there is no regret on my side with W too. I have loved him in that short space of time and still am a little in love with him but its not end of the world. I want a "All or Nothing" with him and it looks like its over for good with him. I know you and I will both get there eventually. I think I have coped very well, each day I felt stronger and each day, I think less of him.  W used to be on my mind nearly every minute of every day but now I can managed 2 hours without thinking of him, which is quite a huge step forward. This site really has helped me and thanks also to all of you who shared.
    To the dad above who wrote in, I still care for my husband as a person and also as the father of the children. I dont know about "in love". Its been such a long time together and I think I may love him but as the father of my children rather than as a romantic interest. I am hoping to build it up with him again, to rekindle a bit of romance and sparks, not sure if its possible but I am trying on my part. So is he too. Our marriage definately worth a try again. And if I can save it, I want to start a new chapter with my husband and hold my head high and love/protect my family with love and pride.
    All the best to us here and hope we find happiness in love and life. Keep writing.

    Sat 14, Feb 2009 at 8:11pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Just to say, my affair is completely over. The recent scare has thrown us both and whilst I still love him so so much, it can never be.
    I have had to explain certain things to my husband but he does not know the full story. I have simply told him I have fallen for someone else but that it is not going anywhere and that for the sake of the children, i am willing to see if we can work this through if he feels he would be too.
    At the moment, we are taking things very slowly and to be frank, I am not sure whether I could possibly feel enough for him. It will be all or nothing for me, I am not prepared to settle for a half marriage as that would not make me happy and as such make everyone else sad too.
    He understands (such a bloody good man just not perhaps for me?) that I need time and that i am still in love with this other person, and really does not want to split up. No promises. Scary times.
    Spoke to my other today, things are bad at his end too and I feel so much for him. I know I should just get on with my life, but as said before not easy as we will see each other at school etc.
    I am not sure whether my husband realises the person i am in love with is the same as the one I was accused of being with, I have denied and whilst my friend says she believes her husband,  he feels there is doubt and lets face it, it is true. I guess we have had a lucky escape but I will never, never regret a moment of our time together and guess live in hope that maybe one day our time will come.
    Emily,Have courage at this time, but please, you do not settle for half a marriage either. You only get one life and you do not want to get to your twilight years and think ' bugger'. make sure it is right for you, because if not it will reflect on those around you whether you realise it or not. Your children will handle it as long as they know you both love them.

    Mon 16, Feb 2009 at 6:36pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Dear Suzy
    I am really sorry to hear that it's all coming to an end. Sometimes it takes a shock and scare like such to open up our eyes and made us realise that it's best to finish it. We are in quite a similar position, I did confess something to my husband but not the full story too. I told him that I was nearly attracted to another guy but I want to work on our marriage and try to save it. He has been very understanding and supportive. We have been spending more time together, going for a meal and enjoyed family outing once again. Also, we are planning for a family holiday together, which is something I look forward to.
    It has been two weeks since W and I have been through ups and downs, still think of him everyday but it's getting less each day and I'm feeling stronger each day. I am coping really well and didn't even once give in temptation to contact him. I am so proud of myself. I didn't regret my affair as I had experienced a really fantastic short time with him. It is enough to made me realise a few things: My marriage/life was becoming dull and definately needs a spark/kick.
    W has shown me not just the excitement of the outside world but I hate to say, he has also shown the ugly side of it as well. I now got the impression that an eligible bachelor like him can play hard to get, he has the attitude that says "take it or leave it" and that women are easily replaced. I think about how hard he pursued and all the very lovely sweet things he said until I fell for him. Then once he got me, I mentioned commitment and what happened? He seems to disappear. Maybe he has his reasons (i.e. don't want to split my marriage) but whatever it is, I find it hurtful and if all he wants was good time/fun fling, then I had been really stupid. I was so blinded. The outside world sucks after all. I can do without it. I am better off at home wtih my wonderful husband and beautiful kids who love me for who and what I am.
    Suzy, its more difficult for you as you will see him during school run. You just have to keep strong and really try to work on your marriage. Focus on all the positive things that you have, rather than what you don't have. You will go through ups and downs the next few days/weeks but for each day you survive without the affair, be proud of yourself. All you have to do is to look at your kids and their little faces. Anytime you feel down, just write. Remember, your feeling is going to be like roller coaster as mine does. But we are here to support each other through.
    Been listening to the song "Never had a dream comes true" that has some wonderful lyrics: "Everybody has something we have to live without....", "there's no use looking back and wondering, how it could have been or might have been", "even though I pretend that I move on, you'll always be my baby," and "You're the one I think about each day, and no matter where life takes me to, a part of me will always be with you....."

    Tue 17, Feb 2009 at 12:30am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Beautiful lyrics, P will always be in my heart, he has been for years, even when we were friends I had fallen for him if truth be known. He has his bad points but a beautiful soul and such drive in life.
    Only time will tell if my marriage will go on or falter but I will not settle for 2nd best. If this affair has told me something, I am not happy with my life and I have the power to change it.
    Whilst P adored me, and still does, it is not enough but what he has made me realise is that I am beautiful and a lovely person - I have always had issues with self esteem not thinking much of myself as mentioned previously. I and my h deserve to be as happy as possible whether that is together or not.
    You take care and remember, you only get one life so makethe most of it - BE HAPPY on which ever road that means taking.

    Tue 17, Feb 2009 at 10:02am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I feel the same way as you do to my friend M. After all, I did not know why I did it. It was more of reaction than “think and do” thing. But my guts told me we are not going anywhere, it will just be fine and only.
    What I DID NOT anticipate was I had fallen too deep into it. After all the painful struggle. I am not sure anymore it is the kind of love that I thought. I felt different about it day after day, I start realize that I over idealized him a lot. – surprising and interesting true feelings. I can feel the relief of my grief of losing him….
    After all, life goes on, make the best of out of it.
    Ivan, how is it going with you?

    Tue 17, Feb 2009 at 3:59pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi all.  Ivan here.  Have been going crazy trying to move on from J after she told me that she couldn't leave and we should ultimately go our separate ways.  She called me today and told me she missed me.  I told her how very much I missed her too.  I don't know what to feel.  I think I feel kind of numb.  She is still pregnant and is still not leaving her husband and I have been desperately trying to make my own marriage work knowing this and so now what?  Now, nothing.  Now we still can't be together and she is still pregnant with his child and I am still trying to move on.  On the one hand it is wonderful to hear that I am not the only one struggling but it also brings back so much to me.
    I feel like what we had is lost.  I am more aware of the pain that my affair has caused and more aware that I too probably was idealizing that relationship.  But yet I am still stuck with the harm I have caused in my marriage and the fact that J is pregnant.  So I am still stuck.  And I still feel terrible for wanting and craving those things that I didn't have in my marriage and thinking that it might be better with J when in fact I would have been the same person in either relationship.
    So I'm not really sure how its going.  Its going okay I guess.  I'm muddling through.  Like all of you.  I just wish that I could think and try to figure this out without trying to wade through all the guilt and pain and "history".
    I too didn't realize how deeply into this I was (am?)  I really had plotted out a life with J and we'd talked about vacations we'd take and what kind of dog we'd get and what we'd cook each know that none of those things will ever happen is so painful.  To know how alike we were (are) and how we related and that that is gone.  And yet to also know how much pain I caused someone because of that connection...I don't know.
    I guess at the end of the day, J and I miss each other, but she is pregnant with her husband's baby.  She doesn't sound particularly happy about it which is very sad.  I mean I love her and if she was deciding to stay with him and could become a happily married woman...I don't know.  I don't know what to feel.  I feel terrible all around really.
    Yet honestly, NOT being caught in an affair feels good.  It was sooo stressful.  I think that J and I would be amazing out in the open.  We are so alike and just click.  Without the history of the affair and knowing that if I ever even wanted to be with her it would destroy my wife...if only I had resisted I could have a friend.  And maybe someday...who knows.
    But life does go on right?  I am where I am and need to find happiness out of this mess.

    Tue 17, Feb 2009 at 11:51pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Dear all,
    Happiness, weird thing that. All of us strive for it, few of us truely find it. In many ways I feel it is lack of courage which stops us being truely happy, certainly from my point of view anyway. The way I feel now is complete and utter sadness - which i had the courage to admit defeat with my marriage and move on but even though I have made in rodes by discussing things with my h, when he crys I back down again.
    god knows when i will hear from my other again. got a short text yesterday, he is unwell - stress I think - off work but heard nothing yet today. Worrying bout him, is he back at work or still ill? cant contact him just in case at home and wife picks up.
    We all need to get back to real life and decide what we really want and if that is not possible then decide what is the next BEST thing, and not to settle.
    I agree with you Ivan, not being in an affair is de stressing but I hate not being with him.
    Take care all.

    Wed 18, Feb 2009 at 9:55am
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi all,
    I am really surprised that I hardly think of W at all today. I tried to think of him couple of times and even then, did not feel my heart flutter or felt the pain of missing him. I think I am moving on. I have learned quite an awful lot from this short term affair. One, it always takes two to tango. Two, affair is like an escapade into a world of its own all wrapped up in a bubble of romantic idealism but hardly a happy ending for the "lovers". Three and most important of all, got ot recognise that the marriage is on the rocks and definatley needs help. 
    I guess my time with William wasn't as long a all of yours and even though I fell quick and hard for him but it wasn't deep enough to cause a more lasting effect of pain. Though I was hurt and missed him in the early days but my self-defence mechanism bounced me back to the reality and the support from my bestfriends and this site have helped. Besides, I cannot love and be with a guy who has no interest to have a future with me and my kids. Or whose love for me is not strong enough to give up his bachelorhood and pursue a new life with a mum of two.
    I guess I envy W's lifestyle. And I can see his selfish side now. I am now beginning to enjoy more family meals together at home and it turned out to be surprisingly nice and comfortable. I am now feeling lighter, happier and more relaxed. My husband and I just got to keep working at it and keep it going. It's not going to be blissful all the time. We really need to recognise the issues that we need to work on.
    Ivan, your lover has gotten herself in a big mess by getting herself pregnant when she is not happy with the husband. We think we are trapped but she is really what "trapped" is all about! A baby will not solve issues but will contribute more problemfor her under this circumstances. It looks like you really have to move on unless you can play the part like Seal towards Heidi Klum. If she doesn't want to or you can't then just move on for your own good. Will you try saving your marriage?
    Suzzy and Jenny, I have also recognise my own weakness. I am hardly contented with what I have in life, I was forever jumping from one relationship into another. Either I get bored or the novelty of a fairytale or the thrill of the chase is over then I itch to move on. But now I have to remind myself I am married woman and a mum and I must not be tempted easily again. The opportunities are always there. There will always be better ones out there. What I have is good enough to make me stay. I hope I will feel this way for the rest of my life and not tempted again.....
    All of us here have the same situation - our affairs are now over. And we all have to try and work on our marriage. Let us continue to support each other through and wishing each other the best and happiness. All good things come to an end. But look - we still have our family/kids. So it's not that bad after all.

    Wed 18, Feb 2009 at 5:26pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All.
    This is from Jenny. I found myself has fallen to a bag of sad air and I could not breath, I do not feel happiness at all, nothing can make me excited or look forward to. Gosh, I hate my feelings. And I wanted to be happy again.
    Now, I really wish I have never had the affair, I would have told him a big “NO” when he pursued me. I’d rather to stay ignorant on all the once believed “wonderful” things that I have learned from the two years relationship with M. It is just not worth it.
    I can not imagine the experience can do so much of damage to me and my family. I do no have anyone to share the pain that am going through, I do not have family. Relatives in this country. I feel lonely and depressed.
    I had another fight with my husband the other night, it even involved physical attack. I was hurt. After that, I cried for a few hours. We fight all the time all the years ever since we married 20 years ago.
    This time, He does not know what happened to me and he could not understand why I cam sad and crapy all the times. I do not blame him. I deserver all the punishments.
    I do not know what to do, I can not leave my kids, can not get divorced, and can not find a way to be happy with my husband. I am stucked and desperate about my future, sometimes I feel suicidal, I do not know if anyone here had that feeling. But it is scary.
    If I do no have my kids, I have left this marriage 19 and half years ago.
    What can I do?

    Wed 18, Feb 2009 at 7:12pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Dear Jenny
    I am sorry, didn't realise that your marriage is that unhappy and it involves domestic violence. Any degree of physical attack at home is unacceptable. It's not healthy to bring up children in such unhappy enviroment and to witness such acts too. 
    Im sorry to hear you haven't got family around you. I dont know which country you are in but can you not find any support at all? Some support group who can put you in touch with other mums your age or in your local area? You do need friends and support to help you through. My bestfriend has provided me lots of support last few weeks when I was in turmoil. I hope you can find some support in your area because you really need it.
    If you are in an unhappy marriage where violence is involved, do not be afraid to walk out. Your children will benefit more to see one single happy parent than two unhappy parents put together.
    If you walk out now, you still have a chance to start a new life and eventually meet another person to share your life with. But if you don't do it, in another 20 years when you are in your 50s or then 60s, you will look back and say "i should have walked out 20 years ago".
    I know its not easy to walk out. For me, my marriage has no domestic violence or fiery arguments like yours. Just gone dull. For that one reason - dull. But now my husband and I are both making more effort with each other and working on it.
    Jenny, you don't deserve punishments. You don't deserve physical attacks. You've been moody and ill tempered over your affair but that doesn't mean you deserve those physical attacks. Believe me, you don't deserve it. You are not a child, even its illegal to hit a child nowadays! You need to show your kids that this is not how a woman should be treated or they grow up thinking that is acceptable.
    I dont know your husband or you enough but I definately know you do not deserve punishment in this manner. Jenny, keep strong, think carefully and for the sake of your kids. Its not a bad thing to walk out from a bad marriage, Jenny. Only save a good marriage.

    Wed 18, Feb 2009 at 7:40pm
  • User-anonymous James Flag

    Hi Jenny, 
    It must be difficult for you to feel trapped, desparate and hopeless.  Violence of any kind is not only unacceptable but also a criminal offence.  Domestic violence is inexcusable and made worse when there are children involved.  It feels you urgently need advice and support.  If you are living in the UK the National Domestic Violence Helpline on Freefone 0808 2000 247 can help if you need advice and support.  They can also provide practical help if required.  If you are not living in the UK, please find out if there is a similar organisation where you live.  Please be hopeful that there are people who can help.  You need not be alone.  I wish you all the best.

    Wed 18, Feb 2009 at 11:45pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Jenny, YES!  I agree with Emily.  What do you mean your fight with your husband involved a physical attack and then he didn't know why you were sad?  You definately should not stay in an abusive marriage and you certainly do not deserve to be punished.  There is no excuse for physical abuse.
    Emily, I really do not understand if J is happy with being pregnant or not.  She told me that told her mother that she wanted an abortion and wasn't ready to be a mother and her mother told her not to talk like that.  She said she hated thinking that she was pregnant and wanted to ignore it and pretend it wasn't real.  I'd bring it up and she'd say "let's just kiss and not talk about it".  On the other hand, she said she wanted a family and I've heard that once you see your child's face, any doubts or depression you had go away. 
    She had broken up with me (later told me it was because the relationship wasn't going anywhere and she was frustrated) and told me she was content in her marriage and didn't feel the urgency that she used to feel to leave.  But then she told me she missed me and told me that again yesterday and that she wished things were different.  I mean I know we were together a long time and of course she would miss me, but I can't believe she is having a child.  It just doesn't seem real and she doesn't (to me) seem ready.  I mean, what do I know.  I wouldn't make a 100% commitment to her and now she's having a child!  I can't believe it.  She's pregnant but calling me to tell me she's missing me.  And before she was pregnant but still wanted to kiss me.  In a way it makes me angry and yet... and now she is calling me to tell me she misses me but isn't saying "I miss you and I really have just decided I can't be without you."  I don't know.  Her husband I think is very good to her.  But they just don't seem to have the passion that we had.  I don't know.
    I'm missing that in my own marriage and of course I have now made it much much worse because my wife knows some of my feelings for J.  She is completely closed off now and is very depressed and so what I was worried about has now become 1000 times worse.  It is my own fault and I know this, but it is so hard when I was already longing for that passion and connection.
    In any event, yes, I am working on my marriage.  I am trying to see all the areas in which I was deficient (there were a lot) and all the areas I wasn't giving my wife what she needed.  If I do, perhaps she will give me more of what I need.  I have hurt her so very much (a long history) so I am even suprised she is staying with me, so I should just be very thankful for that.  And yet I can't help thinking about J and craving certain things.
    In any event I am learning (hopefully) about my part and respecting my partner and not giving in to all of my urges all the time.  I certainly hope marriage isn't just a life of continuing to have strong urges to break free or be with someone else and just not acting on them.  I have to think that people really fall in love and can't imagine being with anyone else.  That's the way its supposed to be right?
    Emily, it sounds like you have the right idea.  I just hope that "nice and comfortable" can turn into passionate and exciting and wonderful.  Because I think the "nice and comfortable" part is what caused you (and me) to seek something else to begin with.  Although know we know the consequences?

    Wed 18, Feb 2009 at 11:48pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I am in a similiar situation to many of the above. Though I am still caught in the middle trying to figure out what to do.  I have been with my husband for 15 years -- married for 10. We grew apart over the years and I have built up a lot of disappointments and resentments towards him. I have been thinking of a separation for years because I am just not happy and am frustrated with the marriage. I asked him to go to counseling years and years ago...but he blew off the idea. I looked at apartments about a year and a half ago, but he didn't take that seriously either. Told me how it would mess up the kids. And I love my kids. I have been a stay at home mom for 10 years.  My life is comfortable -- finances are good - I can stay at home and spend without giving it too much thought. My husband is reliable and generally a good guy.  BUT I don't have many loving feelings for him and dread intimate relations. Don't really even like much phyisical contact whatsoever from him. I am a passionate person, and he is..well...just the opposite. We just don't connect anymore and I find myself dreading to be around him. He is like a dark cloud when we are together. Well, last summer, I became friends with T and that led to more and more until I also found myself in a full affair. I asked my husband to separate, but he didn't want to. I started going to therapy and after several months, confessed to my husband that I was in love with someone else. I have to say, that might not have been the best thing to do.  He took it REALLY hard and it just hurt him so badly. We fought for months about it. We are still living together and trying to figure out the next step. I think we are moving towards separating, but it is not what he wants. I think it is what I want. But I am soooo scared.  I don't know if I am so sad about a 15 year relationship ending or if I am sad because maybe it isn't what I want or if I am sad because I am so worried about the kids. but I know I am getting more and more depressed. The relationship I have with T (the other guy) is fantastic.  I kept thinking that maybe it was just cause it was so new that I was idealizing it...but I have known him for almost a year (as friends) and since June as more... and he really seems to be such a wonderful guy who I am so compatible with who is willing to do ANYTHING for me and my kids.  But I am scared. And confused. I don't want to make a wrong decision. Please help!

    Thu 19, Feb 2009 at 6:47pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi, I am moving on each day though now and again songs or certain things trigger memories. But I guess that's natural, its all part of healing process. Everytime I start thinking of W, my defense mechanism mode reminds me "he doesn't want you enough to take on you and your kids, why want someone like that who wants to make no future plan with you?". He has made me feel as though all I was to him was just his "current squeeze". That is what makes it hurtful as I was genuinely into him and had dreamt of a long term relationship together. That thought made me move on because I am better than that and I am not going to stoop myself to that level (as all his other "squeezes").
    Ivan, I like your last paragraph. It is so right that it was "nice and comfortable" that makes someone like me craving for "excitement and something different". My husband is someone who is very contented with his life and doesn't like to make changes to his lifestyle, happy to settle in the same old routine and doesn't see a problem with that whereas I am someone who is constantly seeking, changing and coming up with ideas. Not just that, his parents sometimes play a part in all these. They always remind us to "be very content, stick to what you know best and don't explore over your boundaries".  I find that restricted to our lifestyle and way of thinking. And it has caused problems too.  I just hope, really do hope, we are both going to work our differences and meet halfway. The last I want is to settle back into the same old, routine, "nice and comfortable" again, you know what I mean.
    To the writer above, you have taken the first step forward. Which was a huge step but at least you are finally doing something about it. Since you have made up your mind and now found someone to share your life with (and who is even willing to take on you and your kids), you must be brave and positive to carry on the rest of your "new life". I envy you (in a good way) that you have a new found happiness and really wish you all the best. I think it sounds like you are sad because a long term marriage has ended to apparently a good and nice man.  It is sad but since this is your new found happiness, you really have to move on with courage and make the best out of it. A lot of people are still trapped in their marriage but in your case, you have taken a brave step. Wishing you from my heart all the best of luck to your new found happiness.

    Fri 20, Feb 2009 at 12:09pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    hello emily,
    I can't believe i found a similar experience in you. Like what you described, it was the most perfect affair one could even dreamt of- like you, never thought I would be in that mess too being married for 9 years with 3 kids.. i guess it just happened when you least expected it.
    We worked together before, knew I was married and he was single- he was pretty much new in town while I just came back from my leave. Became friends and flirt a little. I must admit I had a huge crush on him. Very smart, colleagues spoke highly of him, have had several publications and is actively working in doing several research projects. Co-workers noticed how he flirted much by visiting me often in my office just to say hello and chat a little. Was already heaven for me. Lost communication for a year or so then  re-established when for reason I could not remember. Text messages became frequent. Had short lunches and one time drove me home when my car was not available. We really are good friends. You know friends that are too obvious they like each other.  He told me he liked me. He told me before I finds me attracted. I was flattered! That started the whole thing although no sexually intimacy involved, the longing to text and see each other progresses.  On my way home he asked if he can show me his place so we hang out a little for several times. Then I found myself driving to his place more often until we had wine and one thing led to the other.  It was  wrong but I never felt so satisfied and happy just to be with him. He has all the qualities you mentioned with your man! One true eligible bachelor. Although he shared all of his previous relationships with me, he was open on the fact that he was not the marrying type kind of guy. Not sure why, when asked, he said he's not sure if he can live with another person in the house for a long time or just having someone in bed or seeing the person everyday! Weird you might think.
    That already was a red flad for me. I did not listened and paid attention. I thought, things could change besides, I am begininng to fall for him.  I was very vocal  in telling him how I feel about him and though he was so cautious in saying it verbally, his frequent text messages on what his doing, meetings, gym and his caring and supportive gestures says something else. To the point of deciding to date exclusively. He oftenly insisted we are lovers, I am his girlfriend. Since I am so naive in this relationship, I felt wanted and needed. Therefore, I began to "love" the situation I was in. I although i am aware it was wrong but, I never felt so good about myself for a long time, I never felt so wanted, so beautiful and so sexy. It was the time when I finally paid attention on how I fell. how to look good always, how to dress well, how to do great in all I do. Furthermore, I felt a sense of joy enveloping me everyday. I begin to smile and treat life easy. I was more focused with my kids and just about everything.
    Oftentimes when we are faced with situation about "us" we both become awkward knowing that I am attached and he is not. Knowing that I was not sure if he is that serious or what and the same time if I am ready to leave my husband or what,  We just brush it off and just enjoy being together. Of course, I want him to commit for me and my kids but I was adamant to present the situation. The problem is I am married and although I have a rocky marriage, I was not 100% sure if I am ready to live my husband and take care of my children alone.  At one point my husband noticed my frequent "staying up late" and going out with friends, and once asked me if I was having an affair, I just brush it off and said "of course not!" Although, I was open to my husband  about this person who kepts flirting with me. I also teasingly said that I like him as a person.  My husband knew me  for being honest and vocal on how I feel as we knew each other 8 years before we got married as he was my college sweatheart. I could sense a little bit of jealousy but not significant enough to start a fight are argument.
    As the affair goes on, I began to felt distant to my husband. Ok, I must admit I already am distant from him for some other reasons, this time, the gap became huge. I dont want to make love to him anymore.! I honeslty dont think it bothered him much I guess since we dont do it quite as much. This is one thing. My becoming so "cold" was the reason of some unresolved discussions we had about financial accountability on his part toward the family. Besides, I even considred my affair as my revenge on his lack of financial contribution to us his family.  Although I must admit, he is one of the nicest man (first serious boyfriend),  handsome and cool dad to our kids.
    My problem sets in when I found out that my so called boyfriend has a long time on and off girlfriend from out of state for more than a decade. I found out about this through his old cell he gave me to trash. I was furious about it especially when I learned that he and his gf went on a vacation for 2 weeks together, which he said was a conference ( a month after we started the relationship) . At that point in time he sent me sporadic email telling me that he could not do it often due to "it'll cost him an arm and a leg" to email and that his phone has no connection or whatsoever. Amazed by these information- I checked all of his previous emails. I found out that the gf has been wanting him to marry her and has professed how she love him but my boyfriend has not said anything in response. No I love u neither I miss nor anything fancy.  Please take note: our affair started in July and all of these information (email/texts) in his phone were dated August and September...and I read all of these only in January of this year.  Since we are so used of texting. Questions, discussions about these events took place through text. He denied everything! He wanted to talk to me to explain his side. I refused. He called me 21 times I didnt pick up. THe 22nd time he left  a message accusing me of invading his personal life!.  Finally I decided to plan to meet with him to hear him out, he wants to meet at the parking lot! I refused and told him there was nothing to talked about.  I was really upset  that I could not even pick up the phone and call him let alone seeing him. Finally he texted me asking if I was sure about my decision for not talking to him at all, out of anger I said yes. His last text was, not to contact him ever again and talking falsely about him will not be taken lightly. I responded not to threaten me. Basically, I ditched my by text.
    A week had past no calls/text- I felt ok- but worried so i called him apologizing for my rudeness in my text messages. No response. Second week, I texted- checking if he was still upset, no response. I called again this time, feeling better with no hint of longing- made sure he got my message and to call me if he can- No response.  Now, it has been a month without any communication. There has never been a day that I am not thinking of him. It is difficult but hey, I am surviving. I decided to mail his phone back to made him aware where I got the information was. No calls.  I am still contemplating on mailing back the necklace he gave me last Christmas.
    I am revisiting and trying hard to rekindle my love for my husband and I know itll take some time. I will give it another shot!  Honestly, I am still hoping he will call- Before, I was at the point of leaving my husband for him. Discussion of separation and divorce has been a constant topic in our house and that my boyfriend was made aware about this. Although he kept telling me to stick with my husband and spoke highly of him for being a good dad ( I did not tell my bf) the reason why I am separating- definitely not because of us nor him.
    If you want to ask if it was worth it? no, I wish i never met him. I would have been ok 7 months ago. I heard he is dating- not sure if this is true.   (Katrina)

    Sun 22, Feb 2009 at 10:11am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi everyone, this is from Jenny, have been busy for a few days. Did not write. Saw the post from Katrina, I just wondering how many people are out of there like us. I have seen similar post on other web sites, looks to me these things happen all the time. Different people, different country, different time, but same story. – very surprising to me.
    Katrina, my story is almost identical to yours. Gosh, I know how much it hurts. But it will get better, I have not contact him for the past 2-3 weeks. Feel a lot better. I am not mad at him, I understand him, I would rather to keep all the good memories as gift from a best friend. I have my life and he has his life, it is just as one point of our lives we happened to have the opportunity to share something special. Please do not regret, or hat him, it will only hurt you more. I sometime also think it is not worth it. – But it had happened, just let go. I will not ever do this again as I know how much damage this thing can do.
    Let go, free yourself, free your friend. If it is time that one of you (in our case it is the other person). Then it is time to end. Just accept it.
    Emily and Ivan, thanks for being supportive, things are better each day at home, I have my own problem and can not blame everything to my husband.  I am working on it. Just need some time. How are things going? Hope you are doing better too. Jenny

    Sun 22, Feb 2009 at 6:05pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Dear all,
    It is so amazing that i stumbled upon this site by accident. I am amazed to read that I am not alone in dilemas of the heart and mind. Without going into detail there is one question that I would like help on. That is, is sex important in a relationship? And what does a long term partner mean when she says its not important in a marriage? And,,,tell me,,,,can a woman have be going through menapause for almost 8 years or is that just an excuse? Your comments and advice will be useful. Thank you.

    Mon 23, Feb 2009 at 12:36am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I am the writer of the anonymous on Feb 19 at 6:47. My name is Renee' for future reference. To the above... I have been uninterested in sex with my husband for years. I had joked with a friend who felt the same way that I thought I could go the rest of my life without sex and it would be ok. It wasn't until I met T that I realized that I still DID really want to have sex, and enjoy it so much now. In my opinion, the disinterest in sex was a result of a deteriorating relationship. I had built up so many resentments towards my husband. I didn't realize this at the time, and didn't think it was affecting the sex, but looking back I think it really did.  I think that if a long term partner says it isn't important, maybe they are just saying that they don't have those feelings anymore -- those romantic, sexual feelings and desires. But now that I am in a new relationship with those feelings -- it seems very important. The intimacy brings us even closer. I can't believe I went all those years without being interested... forgot what it felt like to actually WANT to have sex rather than because I felt an obligation. I always had excuses too -- too tired, too stressed, didn't feel I was sexy, etc.  Which all felt like valid reasons to me at the time. But I could be exhausted and I think I would still have sex with T -the desire is just there now. Not sure if this helps or not...

    Mon 23, Feb 2009 at 4:45am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Dear Renee,
    not sure if you have read my previous posts but I am totally with you on the sex issue. Until I got together with P I really did not know sex could and should be fun, always saw it as just something to do and as quickly as possible really. Trouble is, once this knowledge is gained, how to deal with it. I have no such desire towards my husband in this way, but with P, I feel and know I could, at any time and anywhere. He is I suppose like a drug, only trouble is, one which for me is now unattainable. Think about him all the time.
    My husband and I are struggling and as I am not in love with him, I think as previously mentioned it is just a matter of time before it ends. I simply need the loving, affection, intimacy  and desire I had with P and NEVER with my husband. Should in hinsight sought it years ago but as I said, didn't realise it existed outside the realms of the 'jackie collins' books.
    Good luck Renee, don't give up on your hearts true desire.

    Mon 23, Feb 2009 at 12:20pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Dear Suzzy,
    Thanks so much for the response.  Yes, I also desire that loving, affection, intimacy and desire -- and I have all that so much with T. We have this great chemistry, but even more importantly, he CHERISHES me, which is something I haven't felt from my husband in sooo long.  The problem is is that my husband doesn't want to let go. And when he gets upset, then I feel even more guitly and feel so bad that I am hurting him. That I back off a little about separating. I have let this drag on and on hoping he would realize that we really aren't that good together. But he doesn't see that. He says that we were good together a long time ago and that we can get that way again if we both work hard.  I just am having a hard time thinking that. I think it is too late -- that my feelings for him in that way are gone.  But of course, I always second guess myself and wonder if T is kind of taking up all those feelings so I don't have any left to give to my husband. T and I have tried the no-contact thing on many occasions -- never lasting a significant amount of time. Well, we went a month without seeing each other or talking, though there was still some texting/chatting.  It is torture being away from the one you love. I can understand what you are feeling and it must be so hard... It is also very hard to make the decision to split from your husband. I know I thought about that many times before T was around, but never had the guts. I wish I would have now... Cause now my husband blames it all on the affair...which really is not the case.But that is the story he will tell everyone. I will have to live with that. I hope you find happiness -- even if it is not with P.

    Mon 23, Feb 2009 at 2:26pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Dear Renee,
    Life sucks. Why are there so many of us in the same boat. I too suggested a separation, only last week but my husband wants to try only I dont believe I do, only possibly for the kids. The half truth about my affair has not moved him neither. I think my 'affair' could be counted as one of those which I hoped would be a 'get out' , cowards way out of my unhappy marriage but he wants to stick by me.
    My other has had it worse, not only did the phone call (dont know who but someone phoned his wife to say we were having an affair - we denied and said we just friends and were believed ish) rock his relationship, there has been another incident which has caused further problems. At present we still talk on phone and text but at each week progresses I seem to lose him a bit more, though weirdly a long term future is not off the cards, only we would both need to be free (we have agreed on this at least).
    Tell me, what is stopping you leaving for T? you mentioned in an earlier post he would do anything for you and your kids. Has he asked you to leave your husband/ Is he willing to set up home with you and them? I would snatch my others hand off if he did though I know he wont.

    Mon 23, Feb 2009 at 3:48pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Dear Katrina, reading your story is similar like me in many ways. It brought back many memories of W and I. For 10 years before he came along, my life has settled in a nice but predictable, same old routine and my marital life has lose its sparks. I'm always known as the kids's mummy and even when I'm with my friends, we talk about the kids, family holidays and our family weekends. All until W came along, he took me back to the days when I was single, carefree and cherished for who I am as my own person. I felt so adored. The happy days we went out hand in hand, stopped for a kiss, cuddled up on his warm bed and laughed are now well and truly over. Sometimes I regretted for initiating for an end (it was me who sat him down and told him I'm unhappy, indecisive and scared to leave my marriage, then hinted to him that I needed full commitment from him before I leave my husband) - that really ended it. He has never been happy in the first place that I was incapable of making decision and have told me before that he really doesn't want to be the cause of the break up. But i assured him I already had marital problems before I met him. Yet when I fell for him, he became the main reason I wanted to leave my husband. And when he realised that, he got really worried. I was close to leaving my husband but was just waiting for him to tell me he will take me and the kids. Obviously he either didn't want to be the "bad person" to break a family or all I was to him was just a fling. That latter hurts. Even the first possibility hurts too. Perhaps I haven't been too honest with him? I haven't been totally honest with him. I go round in circle everytime he asked me about my decision. I avoided the subject all the time. And now I've lost him.
    All those numerous loving texts and emails he sent me daily. All those late night phone calls and how he tell me he misses me. All my happy weekends with him. Now when I look at other couples holding hands and talking or laughing, my heart aches in envy and it reminds me of the times I had with him. I thought "I had that with W too... oh why did I blow it away?" Perhaps if I hang on to him a little bit longer, I would have a longer happiness for myself. I deserve to smile that way, don't I? But I was scared to fall for him deeper each time... that was why I had that "last chat" with him. I wanted an "All or Nothing" but now I realise I may have pushed it a bit too soon. I had to change my phone tone and text tone in order to think less about him. Everytime a text comes through, I still secretly wish it to be him. I still go out and look at other guys and compare them with him. No one can match up to him. I still think we could have made a great couple (he said it before). #
    Katrina, as you and I now know there are bachelors like that who are selfish and all they want is what is known as "f*ck b*ddy", someone to sleep with no commitment attached. Your bf may like you a lot but it looks like he doesn't want to take it to another level (build a life with you and the kids). Just like W. Not to that level. It is OK if we are single and carefree, we can take that risks. But we are responsible mother with young kids who need stability and a father figure to look up to. If we are leaving our "wonderful but now boring husband", then at least it's got to be for someone who is genuine in building a life with us and the kids. Katrina, I hope you are keeping strong. Its been 3 weeks for me and I still think of him everyday.
    To the Annonymous on 23rd Feb at 12:36am. I would say sex is important in relationship/marriage. It's not just a physical act but connecting the mind and sharing the intimacy. If a partner keeps saying no to sex (for 8 years?), there could be a reason behind it which is worth finding out. She needs to be honest with you. I read somewhere before that the reasons could be,  amongst them, medical reasons or she has stopped fancying the partner or she is having an affair, loss of love for the partner, resentment or even gone gay. I'm not saying your partner has one of those reasons, there are many other reasons too but hope you manage to sit her down and talk about it honestly. Good luck.
    Renee, although you seem to be getting somewhere with T, who seems to want to build a life with you and the kids but your husband still wants to cling on to what is left and makes you feel guilty. The guilt will always be with you unless he moves on and finds someone new and is happy again. I also feel sorry at the thought of walking away with a new guy and leaving my husband behind because he will also take it badly and would probably never love again. He said it before that if I leave him, he will rather be alone for the rest of his life (which is sad as we're only in our 30s) but I know how he is like; once bitten twice shy kind. And I will crush him and make him lose all faith in love. It made me feel like a bad person and as if I am responsible for his happiness. Then who is going to responsible for mine? Sometimes I wonder. I always think "to love someone is to set them free" and I hope your husband one day realises this.
    Jenny, hope you are keeping strong still. It looks like you are although I know you still think of him. Like you, I don't regret being with W because I truly deserve that "short moment of happiness" in my life. For a long time, I haven't had that kind of passion and smile on my face.
    Suzzy, I am also surprised that there are so many of us in the same boat. Hand on my heart, as I am in the same position, I think one should not stay in a marriage "for the kids" but that sounds like unconditional love for the kids and worth the sacrifice of one person's happiness if that can make all the others happy.... I am trying to work on my marriage and now without W in the picture, I should be more clear. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, at least I know it's not because of W or a third person clouding my judgement. Hope you are careful with your contact with this guy as his wife now has had a warning bell. All the best, Suzzy.

    Mon 23, Feb 2009 at 5:14pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Thanks for your words. It is hard feeling responsible for someone elses happiness, but as my counseller has said, you cant be, its not right. Kids are really important as is their happiness, but if I am sad then so will they be and thats not fair.
    Contact with my other if very limited now and restrictive as to subject matter. he wants to get back to where we were before the affair, but how can you. Its always going to be there. Life for us will be very difficult and to be honest I am not sure if their marriage can survive this but contact on the level we have will not alter that. I just need to be very careful as does he. Our relationship, though now soured, is still important to me and he has said today to him but not to the exclusion of his kids - he is prepared to sacrifice us for them - unconditional love and I must respect his wishes or our friendship will die and then any hope is lost. I know I am mad to hang on to a possibility, but is because I love him so much.
    God I just want to feel happy again. Good kuck to us all.

    Mon 23, Feb 2009 at 5:27pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Yes, T would love for me to leave my husband. He has offered his home to me and my kids. Has even offered to move out of his home and into an apartment so that I could move in his home with the kids and have some time pass before he was fully involved if that made me more comfortable. He emptied all the extra bedrooms in his house to show me he was serious. He would do anything for me.  You don't find too many guys like that...
     The biggest problem for me is the kids. I am just having such a hard time imagining them not being with me all the time. I have been at home with them for 10 years. They are the center of my life. They need me. Especially my littlest one.  But my husband wants 1/2 time with them -- and I'm not sure I can do it. You hear people talk about the problems with their husbands and often they say, "but he is a great dad!"  I don't feel my husband is a great dad. He isn't a terrible one, but not real connected with the kids -- doesn't engage with them a whole lot.  I worry about them with him. Cause he does a lot of the same things with them that he does with me  -- like dismisses their feelings, etc. So that is  my biggest roadblock, but not the only one.
    I have been at home for so long with them, I worry about finding a job and having enough money, giving up my stable life...
    I worry about what everyone will think -- especially if I am with T right away (plus that fact that my husband has already told some people what is going on.)  My family, his family, the community. Even my own friends.
    I worry about hurting my husband and how he will handle it, though he does seem to be getting better. He seems a little stronger now than when I first told him. But I hate the fact that he his so upset with me and that he still blames the affair.
    I worry about the details of separating -- the trying to figure it all out. And splitting of our stuff -- like photos, videos, christmas ornaments...
    And even though things haven't been good with my husband for long before I met T, I worry about if I am making a mistake that I will regret later. My husband has pointed out that I have not seen T in day to day, real life situations, or in interactions with the kids.  From everything I have seen from T and from what T tells me, I really don't think these things will be a problem... but what if I am wrong?
    Maybe some of this stuff seems silly to worry about -- but it is all so overwhelming that I am not really moving forward with any of it.  I think fear of the unknown is just holding me back.  I've been in the same routine for 10 years and it is hard to get out of it. But when I think far into the future. I see a life with T, not my husband... But when I look into the near future, I think I am going to be stressed out of my mind. I have 4 kids! It will hard. And I know T would help in any way I could, but from everything I've read, it is best to wait some time (maybe a year?) after a split to introduce kids to someone. That year would be so difficult. T has said he would wait as long as it takes, but I know it is hard for him. Hard for me too not to hardly ever get to see him anymore now that my husband knows.  My husband and I are working with a couples counselour who is trying to help us separate. But even she says she's not so sure we are done... I think she can sense that we still both care about each other. and I do still care about him. but just not so sure I can still be married to him or live with him. Especially since it would mean I would have to give up T. Which I just can't see myself doing. T & I are just to great together to want to give that up. Unfortunately, I met the love of my life while I was married.... 
    Thanks for listening!

    Tue 24, Feb 2009 at 4:44pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Oh god, I so feel for you. How about you and your husband have a trial separation. You mentioned T would give up his house for a while so why not take up his offer. Your kids do not have to meet him as 'your new fella' simply as the landlord.
    Then keep your attentions on them. let them have time with their dad and enjoy that time for you - not necessarily with T - definately sometime on your own. Go for a coffee, swim, pamper session or a walk in a beautiful park. Give yourself time to get you head round who you can live without.
    Your husband says you have not seen T in day to day situations, but before you lived with him you had not seen that in him either.
    look, you only get one life, and yes it is not the easiest of situations but I personally think you need to take this chance. It maybe a mistake but the what if could eat you up forever. The potential benefit is immence. I know, if I was in your shoes I would plug on and make the change. It may well be the best thing you have ever done, tough for a while but long term......
    What do they say ' love conquers all'. You will always care for your husband, he is the father of your children after all, but its not the same to care as to love.
    Let me know how it goes.

    Tue 24, Feb 2009 at 5:21pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Dear Renee
    Now that you've explained in clearer details, I also feel for you. I agree with Suzzy that you should consider trial separation first. I've also read somewhere that if you have young kids, it's best to try and live separate lives (separate bedrooms etc.,) but still in the same house on early days of separation. I know its difficult especially if you're already seeing someone.
    T obviously wants to be with you. Who are we to tell the future - whether or not all his bad habits will come out when you live together. Well, we know no one is perfect and nothing is guaranteed in this world. However, it is worth to take the chance when you think you've met the love of your life. I don't know how long have you known or been with T. But like what Suzzy suggested, you don't have to introduce him as your boyfriend to the kids at this early stage. Just keep watching to see how he is like with the kids and time will soon show you a clearer picture.
    If your husband has the paternal rights to spend certain hours or days with the kids then it is really beyond your control what he does with them as long as he keeps them safe and deliver them safely back to you.  I can understand how worry you feel thinking of the little ones in his care. Unfortunately this is part of "divorce issues" that you have to face. Perhaps you can mention this concern to the health visitor or counsellor and see if they can reassure and make you feel more at ease?
    It is a total new life and new beginning for you and lots of adjustments to make. Take it step by step. You need lots of support from family and good friends too. Don't worry about what others think of you. You know you have found the love of your life and you are still a responsible mum.
    All the best, Renee. Be brave and you will cross all hurdles in life with the right support and sensible planning.

    Tue 24, Feb 2009 at 7:11pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Emily,
    Thank you for your encouragement. It has been exactly 4 weeks today since I last saw my BF. But you know what, I have been thinking of calling him. Maybe just to say hope you get your phone in the mail... perhaps telling him that i really feel bad we ended up like this.. treating each other like uncivilized people sending text messages out of anger.. I am tempted to tell him that he is a nice person and a good friend to start off with initially.. it is funny I have been rehearsing this thoughts over and over again! Still, I feel chicken! Not really sure if I can do it. PArt of me is saying, go ahead but part of me is stopping me... Totally ridiculous!!My guy friend told me, :Let him call you to deserve you"
    I missed him terribly. One thing I found out after these agonizing weeks of waiting is that I've learned to pray harder. Harder than I used to. The situation allowed me to refocused my attention and energy to my husband. I caught myself staring at him for no reason... back of my mind I am imagining my BF.. and yet, instantly, I need to be aware and look at the reality infront of me..
    I still expect he;ll text me. True, my phone has never been so calm and quiet now that he is gone. I can even leave it in the counter without feeling paranoid. You are right, it was just a wonderful "walk in the park"experience, an amazing dream that I wish I didnt wake up..even then, I still treasure each time we were together. I just smiled and reminisce about it in my memory.
    Imagine how influential men can be? I can't believe how they manipulate our feelings and emotions and sense of being. It seems that my happiness have become dependent on him.. I kept asking myself about this. One more thing, my husband rented a movie last night titled "Women". For whatever reason, he asked me to watch it with him ( he doesnt like this kind of movie and neither did I) but hey, it has opened a lot of answers to my troubled spirit.  Just to give you the synopsis of the story. Meg Ryan found out her husband of 13 was having an affair with a perfume lady (spritzer). Like us, she felt crushed and isolate herself for some time ( although in a different level).  Processes for divorce took place, ander sets in, remorse and pushing the husband out of the house happened.  But looking at the circumstance, Meg took the situation as her stepping stone to regain herself back again. She looked at things in a more positive way by asking, "What do I want?"
    Sure thing, she learned to trust herself again, believe in her capabilities and strengths again to be whoever she wants to be and boy, her aura,perception, outlook and personality truly has changed! Several months later, her husband sent her flowers with a note : I want to know you more! THat is my example of taking control!
    Believe me, I woke this morning with a different outlook- affirming and reassuring myself It will be over and it will be just fine. I put on my best suit, fix my hair and put on a confident smile and I could sense an immediate change in me! I said to myself I need to be back in school to complete my masters and move on to PhD program next year.
    Sure, I still think of him but this time, just a couple minutes and nothing more.  I will not allow this emotions to cripple myself and cloud my judgement. I want my BF to know, I am more than alive without him and I want him to feel sorry for himself. It is easier said than done but hey, I am sure I can make it and one day, when our path cross- he will realize what he's lost. Kat

    Wed 25, Feb 2009 at 4:08am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Renee,
    If only I have that option, i would not have any second thoughts. Your best answer is asking yourself, how happy are you when you are with T than with your husband? Bear in mind, this is beyond sex. Yes, you have 4 kids- looking at the situation have you figure out what T's role in rearing the kids? Emotionally? Financially? These has to be clearly stated if possible.  Until these aspects are resolve then you will have peace of mind. This is a sign that you are in the right path.
    The most important logic here is that T has verbalized his clear intention with you to stick with you AND your kids no matter what. You just need to meet it halfway and define "in what way?
    Honestly, why would you care about what other people will say? they are not the ones living and driving your life, you are! As long as the kids are recognized in your relationship with T- all other things will fall in their right places.
    Don't take too long to decide.  Opportunity like this seldom comes in package. K

    Wed 25, Feb 2009 at 4:32am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    To the anonymous writer on February 23- how important is sex?
    One thing I found out that the longer you are married (like me for 9 years) sex has become more of a responsibility than passion.  I am 37 and my husband is 38. First couple years of marriage, sex was awesome. For the 4-5th, well it has become quite a routine. Then finally we have 3 kids! Sex becomes less and less. In fact, a week could pass or so without it.
    A lot of things come into picture.. responsibility with kids (school) especially when they are still young, stress at work, stress at home really affects that mood. Fine. These are the normal things that every couple in America is facing but the bottom line is- what do we do as wife to create the spark back into our sex life? Do we just expect our husband to always initiate? Don't mean to lecture but this is what is happening to my relationship.
    My sex life has become more of a hindrance than a passionate necessity for couple. I always want to make love to my husband- I make it a point to finish the evening talk quickly so we'll have time to be together and cuddle up. Everytime this situation sets in, I always find him already asleep and snoring! What? On and on I felt stupid. I felt unwanted and unattracted and disliked.
    Until I had the affair and that part was more than I could imagine which made our separation quite difficult. Anyway, now that I am off the affair, and have no one to fill in the vacuum except my husband- I said to myself- I should tell him something.  Of course,  I still long for that passion for the intensity and the emotions that made me appreciate sex more than I used to.
    After 8 days without sex I had a heart to heart to my husband and poured all my anger, bitterness and hated and other suppressed emotions. I told him I am not happy in our relationship base on the following factors i.e. sex life, financial accountability, responsibility with kids. How I felt neglected and the feeling of being 60 when I am with him even if I am only 37!
    I was cautious with my words so as not to anger him and presented my point with all honestly. The evening later, he surprised me with the most wonderful experience. I can't believe there is still that spark of passion after 9 years!  You see, it is all about willingess to compromise.  He helped me out with the kids homework by starting it early, put the kids to bed on time so will have time to ourselves.  It worked!
    We just need to be open with our emotions on what we want and discover how to improve and rekindle our sex life. I am sure you will agree that ONE of the many reasons why we married our husband is thier ability to satisfy sexually.  The magic is still there, it just need an awakening!
    Good luck! K

    Wed 25, Feb 2009 at 5:00am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Dear all,
    Just wanted to update my situation. I have created a new post ' admitted to affair - need advice on future' as this is now my situation. All contact with the other has ceased other than at school and then only once a week. Gutted as his decision but is for best.
    My H knows that I have had a full affair and as such is in pieces. You all know my story and I am now after help on how to go onwards which is why I feel the new post is appropriate .
    Emily, I hope you are okay and maybe we can continue to be of support to each other.

    Thu 26, Feb 2009 at 12:08pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi Kat, I felt strange reading your last post to me because it is very coincidental with my feeling. My phone was alwasy busy with his constant texts all through the day and night with W telling me what he's having for breakfast/lunch/dinner, what he's watching on TV, what he is doing next, etc., And now my phone is so quiet. It's been over 3 weeks and total silence. I don't even feel I need to hide my mobile phone anymore from my husband. I now leave it lying all around the house becaue I don't believe he will texts me again. Although sometimes I look at it hopefully and my heart aches a little.
    Lately I've been having flashbacks of scenes with him. I drove by the train station where we usually meet and I felt sad. I saw the same spot he stood there waiting for me and my heart really aches. I went shopping and saw the same lampshade he has in his bedroom and my heart aches too. I hear the same song on radio every morning which reminds me of him and that drags my mood down and saddens me. I read movie reviews about the last film we watched together and I feel sad. I lay on bed and flashes of his face over me makes me sad too. Can't believe it's all over for good.
    Once upon a time, we were so good. He was so romantic, loving and affectionate. Now he's gone quiet and I feel I do not know him anymore. Suddenly he is a stranger to me. I can't even log in my social networking site because that breaks my heart as he is on my friends list. I don't want to check his social page as I might see something that makes me jealous or remind me of him. As i said, I even had to change my phone ring tone just to help me to forget about him.
    Kat, like you, sometimes I feel like wanting to ring or text him just to say hello. We didn't break up on bad term. We just went quiet on each other after my "chat" with him. Sometimes I blame myself for putting him on the spot and rushing it too quick, too soon. I blame myself for not telling him that I love him. Perhaps he got the wrong message from me. But oh well. I don't want to ring him because I am also afraid it might re-start something again with him. Part of me think I have done very well in moving on my life and finishing an affair. And if I contact him again, I might go back to suare

    Fri 27, Feb 2009 at 7:45pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    P.s: Continue... sorry, my above post was accidentally posted before finishing. Continuing here...
    If I contact W again, I might go back to square one. So I will continue resisting it but at some point when I am totally over him, 100%, then I would like to stay as friends with him. But not now when I still have some feeling for him.
    I am doing quite alright with my husband. I am putting more effort although we have been having small arguments here and there but then at least we are both trying to make it work again. At least we have been spending more time together. Kat, like you, I have been staring at my husband and thinking "do I really want to spend the rest of my life with this man?" and sometimes i still feel in dilemma. But I still think my marriage is worth saving. I can find another man but I am probably someone who can't commit for long, I like to move on after few years and start a new again. I can be quite fickle in person. I know myself too well. Because of my fickle personality, I might not feel fulfilled even with a new guy. Maybe its me that needs help. I will continue to work on my marriage and appreciate my husband.
    Suzzy, thanks for the update. Yes, we will continue to support each other here. I will check out your new Post. Keep writing.
    Take care, all.

    Fri 27, Feb 2009 at 7:51pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Emily,
    I  find it odd too to see a lot of similarities in our post with my BF and your W. What a coincidence I thought. Do they really have the same characteristics? Or this is just the "typical" attributes of a good player.
    Strangely though, the silence is really deafeaning! Today is the anniversary of our last text! Yes, I remember every single time we were together and it really is a struggle to just forget everything. You are right, I am reminded of him everytime I see some things that he has, that he likes and things we do together. Everytime I see his type of car, I always have to take a second look hoping I could see a glimpse of him. What I find helpful is not to go to places we always go together, not to associate myself (at lease minimize) with friends from previous work who knows him because I couldnt stop myself from asking about him and of course, I dont want to turn my friends off. Everytime I feel the "depression" sets in, I allow myself to absorb it and let it takes it course. It may take several minutes or hours but after that, I feel a lot better. It made me think of a better reason why really it didnt work. 
    I look at myself again- my needs and what I really want to become. The attention I give to myself has helped gain the confidence i used to have, the spark that glows within and the ability to bring out the best in me again. I need to do this to empower me to soar above and beyond what I feel towards him. I told him I love him several times. That was exactly what and how I feel and I believe he deserved to know. Unfortunately, with the turn of events now (silence) I dont think he does in return and that is really hurting.
    I meant it when I said those words. I did not really expect him to say something in return (although I hope he would). I remember when we were still "friends" then, texting each other and one time he sent me a text saying "i luv u' I was surprised, elated and overjoyed! I called him and asked him what was that all about? He said he was just drunk! Yeah right. The second time he said it was a response to my text. Gosh, I was so happy. Finally the last weekend we were together at the party, he probably had enough to drink. He kept kissing me and  telling me "don't you know I love you?" in a very passionate and loving way. Ok, I dont know if it was true or what or just because he was 'tipsy' or drunk but I still vividly could remember that moment and I want it to last. I remember a friend who told me -men say what they really feel when they are drunk. Is this true?
    There has never been a night I lay down without thinking of him and longing for him to make love to me. Yes, he still has part of my heart and my being and I hate him for that. This may be unfair but I have to force myself to make love and be more close to my husband for the sake of not totally feeling the "hurt, the anger, the self-pity and the depression" that this relationship has caused.
    I wonder how he is right now. My mind wanders every now and then. I sense his smell almost everywhere I go, I see his face everywhere I look. It seems that I am haunted by his presence all the time. I even invisioned him showing up in my office unexpectedly or perhaps calling me or texting me in the least expected time. I said one time while driving home, if he text me today, I will drop what I am doing and meet with him!  I was glad he did not.
    I talked to a good friend of mine who has been there at the start of the relationship. She was shocked to know how everything ended in a bad way. The threatening text message from him bothered my friend. His text message that "If he hears anything about him falsely being acccused of something (slander) due to my illegal possession of his personal items, he would not take it lightly. You have been warned." I just brushed it off since I am confident I didnt do anything wrong. I did not break in to his place neither still anything from him nor snoop into his private information- He gave me his old cell phone to dispose of it! So, why would I be bothered? But true enough, that kind of text message was an indication that this person was even more concern with his reputation, career, status and well-being more than "HOW I FEEL, more that "US", more than the relationship and wanting it to work above all, more than ME. What a selfish type of person he was!
    Now, everytime I feel the strong urge to just drop everything off and forget that these ever happened, I am strengthened by that fact- if he does ever care, he would not have the nerve to threaten me like. But he did. Out of anger? or just because he is a loser? I hated myself for trying to contact him after the last text. I felt so stupid. Now, I am not going to do it anymore.
    Not sure if I meet him in the hallway- interestingly, I dont know what to do. Part of me says- dont mind him and consider him just a plain stranger. How about if he says hi? Part of me says, then say hello and ignore him. All I want is that in case we see each other unexpectedly, he will see realize what a big loser he is- I want him to see me at my best and make him realize what he has lost.
    It was an ego booster on my part receiving 22 calls from him in a span of 8 minutes and boy, I wish to experience that elation once again. One time, he beg me to call him after sending several text and calling numerous times looking for me! unfortunately, my battery died on me and there was no way to charge!  Well I just keep dreaming maybe the time will come he will do that again,...Maybe soon, maybe not. still cant believe he did that though. Well, I guess I just want to leave it like that that for once- he intensely sought for me. Now, that makes me smile:-) What a good way to remind myself to smile again even though my heart is aching.
    Emily, I am glad you are working it our well with you husband. I am not sure if I can keep pretending for a long time. But now that my BF is gone- I guess I have to live with what I have and just go on with the ride. Just like last night I was tempted to tell my husband that I cheated on him. I want to tell him because I think I owe him an explanation. But what if he despise me? what if he gets custody of my children because of my stupidity? That I cannot handle. Just the "thug" in my chest to tell him never stops. Honestly, I dont know if will forgive me.

    Sat 28, Feb 2009 at 5:16am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Emily,
    My girlfriend requested me to watch the movie "Fireproof". I was reluctant at first then finally decided to succumb to her plead. I watched it tonight and I really enjoyed the movie! And guess what the plot of the story (with the wife and her fling) was the exact similar of what I have experienced. In this case, she was smart enough not to "fall into temptation" . It was really funny and boy, I bad goosebumps all over me while I was watching. I plan to watch this again with my husband and I am really excited! Please plan to have a movie date with yours!

    Sun 1, Mar 2009 at 5:31am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I don't have much time to write today...but hope to again soon as there have been some changes in my situation. But I did want to let you know to the above statement "what if he gets custody of my children because of my stupidity?"... that I was worried about the same thing and talked with a very experienced lawyer and others who have been involved in the situation and was told that this had no effect on custody...unless the other person puts the kids in danger, etc. or if you did stuff like "screw in front of the kids." That it would have to be pretty extreme for it to make any difference. My lawyer even said that it could actually show the court how my husband was so oblivious to my needs and feelings for me to want to have an affair.  Talk to you all soon!

    Sun 1, Mar 2009 at 10:58pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hope you are out there. Having a really awful day. Just been to Relate and I thought it went well but husband did not and has stormed out. Half of me wishes not said anything but the other says, no, you needed to as had an affair for a reason which needs to be addresssed either way.
    No contact with the other, other than just 'hello' when saw on sat, painful, just wanted to chat but no. So low, it is killing me. Just want to be happy.

    Mon 2, Mar 2009 at 3:11pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Obviously found this site cuz of my own position, would help so much to air my problem and have input from people who dont know me.
    I am engaged.  Have been with my fiance for 4 years but have been best friends with him for ten.  I have a 2 and a half year old son.  Last year after being unhappy and arguing sice my son was born I started talking to a guy who i knew through a friend.  At first it was only talking, and neither of us ever intended on falling for each other.  But it happened.  The affair started and i was so sure i was going to leave my fiance to be with this guy.  Even my mum knew what was going on.  But after nine months of not leaving things changed.  My affair and i decided to split as he could no longer handle me living with my fiance.  But we didnt stop talking but for a while i thought me and my fiance would be ok, until my affair guy started to tell me he was going to stop talking to me and move on.  This has thrown me into despair.  I dont want him to move on and forget about me.  I love him but i still cant see me leaving and the affair guy is now telling me that although he loves me he cant do it for another year.  He is basically saying i leave my fiance (who wants us to plan our wedding) or that we stop talking and he is now so hot and cold with me.
    My fiance is a great dad and a good guy and was my best friend.  Leaving him would destroy him as he loves me and our son so much.   We are not compatible in the bedroom department at all though although we are so similar in other ways.
    My affair guy is also lovely and is ok about me having a son but is now less available to me (as in doesnt text as much and works a lot more and is starting to try and move on) and is really thinking about cuttin of contact very soon if i dont leave.  We are complete opposites in style and interests but are so compatible in the bedroom and get on so so well.  he is 5 years younger than me.
    I have no idea what to do anymore, i feel so ill with all this, i am in a constant state of panic and am so unhappy.
    Someone please help me.
    Kitty kat

    Tue 3, Mar 2009 at 2:15pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Can i just add that i did make my fiance leave for 2 weeks six months ago but ever day he'd come over to see my son and pester me, i let him bck in as i was ill and my family were not here so he had to look after his son and he didnt have another place and i never got him out again. we did not have sex for 9 months and did not share a bed, i am only 28.  i love him but yet i love my affair guy.  although it seems now my 23 year old affair guy is becoming disinterested after waitin a year for me to leave that he gemerally does not want to dicuss feelings anymore as he just gets annoyed with the whole situation and just responds to sexual texts.
    Kitty Kat

    Tue 3, Mar 2009 at 2:29pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hello. Just an update from my part. I'm moving on from W although not completely forgotten him but I can manage through half a day or more without even thinking of him. When I think back of the memories, it was more like sweet memories and a little adventure in life which I can now look back and add to my life experiences. It was just something "not meant to be" because of timing. I have worked out in life sometimes you can't have everything you want. And if you don't get it, it doesn't mean it's end of the world for you. Because life moves on and I have also learn that the best way to be happy in life is to make the most of what you have in life.
    I enjoyed watching movies with W and going for coffee in smart little coffee shops and now I am doing all that with my husband. I realise that if I can do it with someone else, why can't I do it with my own husband? So I started making more efforts and so has my husband. Of course its nothing as exciting or romantic as with a new guy but then that's what marriage is about, I suppose. The giddiness and excitement is usually found only at the beginning of a new relationship and all relationships, after a while, will fall into a comforting and familiar phase.  In order not to fall into boredom or routine again, I have tried to go for a new cuisine and new places.
    Thanks for the film/movie recommendation. I will try and see if I can get hold of "Fireproof".
    Renee, I was told that as long as you are a good mother, you shouldn't lose your kids custody to your husband. But I am not a lawyer so its best if you sought the best legal advice possible. Good luck!
    Suzzy, I couldn't find your new post that you mentioned. But will keep searching for that link. You are very brave to admit your affair and now doing the right thing by going to Relate. I have no intention to admit to my full blown affair. I have mentioned part of it to my husband but will deny that there was intimacy involved as he will never forgive that part. So for me, its best to keep quiet. Anyway I am moving on from my affair and I wish to put it all behind it so I dont feel the need for me to tell him as my husband will not take it lightly. Suzzy, Im sorry that you had an awful day at Relate. As you know, it doesnt always mean it helps to patch couples up together, sometimes they might make you realise its better to be apart than together because the love is lost and there is no chance of getting back. But whatever it is, do update us and I hope it turn out positive for you both.
    Kat, as I said we were in similar position in many way. W also "perked up" a lot with sexual texts/flirting. That always put a huge smile on his face. There was a lot of lusts between us and everytime we were together, we couldn't get our hands off each other. It was all very fiery and sexy. W had told me he loves me a few times before. He also rang me near midnight, after a few drinks and in that slightly drunken moment, he has told me that he loves me and wants to see me because he misses me. But its all over for good now. And I will not sit here and cry over someone who has no intention to make this relationship work with me  because I tell myself I am better than this. I have enough self love not to put myself through that. How are things with your husband lately, Kat?
    Take care, all and write again.

    Tue 3, Mar 2009 at 5:44pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    we're not married, we've been engaged 3 years, been together 4 and have been best friends for 10 years.  he wants to plan a wedding now for next year as he thinks things are good cuz im good at acting like it is.  but i dont know.  when my affair and i decided to split i was ok for a few months cuz we hadnt really split as we were still constantly talking etc and i thought we were ok as friends and me and my fiance were gettin on great up until a month and a half ago when my affair guy started to pull away from me and said he wanted to move on as he couldnt handle being nothing to me and started being quite soon as this happened i have fallen apart, i have been making every effort to try and get him not to move on as i love him but he says he's going if i dont leave my fiance.  i just dont know what to do anymore.

    Tue 3, Mar 2009 at 11:39pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Kat, You need to either to break your angagment or let your affair guy go. It is not fair to hold on tow guys in your life. It is worng. Be honest to yourself, choose the guy you love before too much damage made.

    Wed 4, Mar 2009 at 1:49am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    This is Jenny. I am back. Saw some new posts here but all similar story.
    Update on my situation: I am doing much better now. I have thought A LOT and read A LOT in the past weeks.
    Here is what I stand now: I have accept and convinced myself: I made mistake, it was wrong to have the affair. It took time for me to realize and admit it. Back a few weeks ago. When I initially posted here, although I may also said: “I know it is wrong”, but it was not from my heart. I did not think it is wrong because I had my own reasons-the excuse. I did not want to agree it was a bad behavior. I am not trying to offend anyone here. I am just sharing the painful journey that I have gone through.
    Yesterday I was watching a movie for kids with my son, the movie was trying tell kids that everyone has to follow certain rules to protect themselves, for example you have to follow the traffic law when you drive, otherwise, you will get hurt or be punished. Things like that simple stuff for grade level kids.
    It made me think the invisible rules that have been setup in our society – the moral standards that have been developed or recognized in the human history – it is just the way it will work, everyone suppose to follow.
    For people who are married, we need to follow the rule to be faithful, we all have our own very valid reasons. I believe those are very good reasons, -- I whole-heartly agree. But in the end, what do we get? – we are injured badly, we suffer. It hurts. Why? Because we did not follow the rules. It is just like when you are driving to an airport to catch a flight too fast: you either at the risk get into an accident injured, killed or get a ticket. I think the same logic apply to affairs. We did something that we are not suppose to, but we got hurt, we also hurt other people who are significant to us—our spouse, children.
    I am not sure if anyone here agrees with me, but it helped me start see things differently and has eased my mind.
    I understand the pain caused by the rejection, I understand the scary withdraw depression, the hopelessness, the disappointment. It is not a good spot to be at in one’s life. Isn’t it?
    I do not regret the whole thing, I did enjoy it. I still care for my friend because I choose to play the game without following the rules. – I got the price to pay now, suffer the pain. Worth it? – NO.
    I wish I knew this better, I would have protected myself better. I would have analyze my marriage before turning to elsewhere to look for happiness, I did find the things that are missing in my marriage, but it does not belong to me, I can not have it for my life because I did not follow the rules. It disappeared in a blink. – what a loss!
    So for me, I will follow the rules from now on. No more relationships before I am single again.
    Anyways, thank you for reading, and I hope everyone come out this fog and find happiness again in your life soon.
    Emily, good to know you are still here and doing better.
    Ivan, how are you going?

    Wed 4, Mar 2009 at 2:59am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi Emily,
    Things are moving on. From saying the whole marriage was over to now he is willing to try. Funny its not the affair which is causing the major issue, other matters including how I feel towards him.
    Been very hard not to contact the other and did have a plip this morning and texted him, but no response so very telling. I dont regret having an affair, only that I have hurt my husband and also myself for falling for someone who was never willing to give me what I wanted.
    Neither my husband or I are sure where the road we are on will take us, however we both need to be happy. Problem is, after the intial relate session you have to then wait for up to 12 weeks on the waiting list to get regular sessions!! Shows how many are having problems!!
    How are things going emily, do you feel you can get enough from your relationship with your husband to make you happy?

    Wed 4, Mar 2009 at 1:07pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    This comment has been removed as it was personally abusive and therefore contravened para 3.1.6 of the Terms and Conditions of use of the site.

    Wed 4, Mar 2009 at 1:24pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    You should read our stories before you judge. Never just for that

    Wed 4, Mar 2009 at 1:28pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi all.  Ivan here.  Glad to hear that Emily and Suzy have made progress.  Sometimes I think I have and sometimes not.  I have not spoken to J in 3-4 weeks.  It seem like yesterday.  She called once to tell me she missed me but that's been it.  I keep writing an email and then never sending it.  I wish I could say that I have stopped thinking about her.
    I agree with Emily though.  I can see just how much pain having an affair has caused.  I know I acted terribly.  I wish I could say that I accepted myself and what I did and I that I am okay with myself, but I am not.  My wife is still terribly devestated and while I can see just how awfully I was behaving and how much pain I have caused I cannot say that all that I was feeling before has changed and I am now 100% in love and 100% convinced I am with the right person and 100% convinced that I wouldn't have been better with J.
    I am respecting my wife a lot more I hope.  But I wonder if I still don't FEEL all the way vested am I still just lying and cheating even though not physically.  And I still feel like I'm in love with J and I hate myself for that so how am I supposed to move on.  How am I supposed to get over here.  What good is it doing me pining away for some other woman who is married and pregnant?  I don't know.
    I keep trying to forget her.  No, actually that's probably not true.  I really don't want to.  But....
    Anyway, I am trying to focus on other things, like really putting energy into my job and marriage.
    I wish I could stop thinking about J and wondering if she's thinking about me.  I want to have ONE happy wonderful passionate relationship to draw strength from and also to GIVE support.  I wish that I was 100% SURE of what I wanted and WHO.  My insecurity and indecision is hurting others.  And hurting me.
    I am sure though that I don't want to be a cheater and an asshole my whole life.  I also wish I could accept what I'd been and not just continue to beat myself up.
    In any event, like I said, I have my good days and bad days.  I'm sure like everyone here.

    Wed 4, Mar 2009 at 7:03pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    please can someone give me advice
    Kat xxx

    Wed 4, Mar 2009 at 8:07pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Dont marry unless you are totally sure of your love for that person. You only need to read a few of the stories hear to see the problems caused once marriage is in place.
    If you love the other guy, and he loves you, for gods sake thats who you should be with! May be tough to make the move but the alternative could well be unhappiness inthe future. Take care and be bold.

    Wed 4, Mar 2009 at 9:15pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Kat, I (Ivan) will add that the longer you wait and stay in indecision land the more disinterested your affair partner (AP) will become.  Trust me.  Mine left because I waited forever and then she sort of came back but it was more of a mess than before.  DO NOT WAIT.  MAKE A CHOICE.  Or one will be (or already has been?) made for you.
    Also, as I also found out, you CAN NOT really even know what it is like to be in a relationship with either of these people unless you are FULLY in ONE of them.
    Wow, I could be (and should have been) talking to myself.
    Believe me, you do NOT want to be in the pain we are all in here.
    Take care.

    Thu 5, Mar 2009 at 1:06am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    hello everyone,
    Jenny- I like your analogy about rules. As simple as it is and yet it is so difficult to folllow. On the other hand, I am so pleased to know that you finally came to a point of realizing what had happen and planning on what could be done to overcome the past.  You are doing a great progress!
    Suzzy- you are a brave person! i really commend you for your boldness and sincerity in sharing your affair with your partner. You are an example of a strong woman who really knows what she is doing and are not afraid to stand on her ground.  I for one thought about telling my husband about my affair. I guess out of guilt. However, now that my affair is over, I thought I would rather save it for peace sake.  Even though I still could feel a thug in my chest to tell him, something is stopping me. Interestingly enough, I had the courage to confess to him about my plans of having an affair. He looked at me in disbelief and said, how sure am I you are not doing it? I just gave him a smile and a kiss and told him- I have what I want infront of me! I guess there are things better left unsaid at some point because I am still willing to salvage my marriage.
    Emily- I am glad you are spending more time with your husband lately. That is good. It will refocus your thoughts and your attention to what is real and tangible infront of you than just a dream. We sure had a great time with our lover, right? Even simple places life coffee shops or eatery as long as we were together, it seems that we are dining in the best restuarant ever. I also realized that frequent communication no matter how short and simple it is to our husband means a lot.  Everytime I miss my lover and the longing of seeing and wanting to be with him increases- I just turned to my husband and pour all of my deep and passionate emotions! For no reason, I just tell him how much I love him and appreciate his presence, his contribution and his being the man in the family. This attitude really works wonder! Well, instead of continuing to fool myself on someone who is not even calling nor texting neither even thinking of me, I would rather devote my energy and emotions on somebody who is there infront willing to sacrifice for the family. Sure it is hard. you might think, who are you kidding? But I thought, what could be my best coping mechanism may be not the best tool for anyone. I just don't want to keep fooling myself.
    Kat- welcome to the club! Thank you for sharing your stories to us. I envy you because you are still not married. Which means, you have the entire right to do, decide what you want in life-Either to stay with your fiancee or go with your lover.  Ivan is right, you do not want to be in our shoes where all we could think right now is wishing and hoping and struggling hard to make things work with our current relationship. For me. a relationship should not cause any anxiety to a couple. It is something that they are glued to, excited , elated and passionate about. It is something that each person yearns and long for and not something to get away from. Forgive me for saying this but since you are asking for advise, here's my 2 cents. I would be thankful for my fiancee who in spite of me being a single mother with a kid, my fiancee has professed his love to me and is willing to take the responsibility in taking care of me and my son. That for me is an amazing decision to make from a man's standpoint. Remember, any man would not dare to take such accountability if he is not inlove and committed to the other person. You differences can be remedied by constant communication. Please take you time to talk, share, open up your heart to him. Ask yourself what do you want, what are the things that both of you would willing to compromise and make your relationship works. In my thoughts, since you have been engaged for 3 years, it seems that your fiancee has entered into a "comfortable" zone. There is nothing wrong with that but just remind him that relationship takes work from both of you. Try it, talk to him and you will see and appreciate him more than you ever. Also, you will feel good about yourself because you are able to guide the person you love and care for to become a much better person that he is now. Both you and your son will benefit from this change!  As for your lover, you mentioned that he is 23 and you have great chemistry in bed= Sure enough as young as he is, sex is all that important at this age( growth and development).  I am not saying this is wrong in fact it is a beautiful thing to be showered by this pleasure more often. For women, it makes us feel adored, loved, longed and of course it is a boost of self esteem to have perfect mate in bed. On the other hand, life is more than just sex.(funny I just found it out recently).It is a lifelong committment from both parties. Check with your lover what is his perception of you having a son. How willing is he to take on the responsibility ( down the road). These are the defining moment in your life and don't be scared about it.  My point is, if  a man really loves a person in spite of her baggage, he will be open enough to even talk, plan and include these baggages in your conversation and future plans. This is an indication that he is really into you. Did you bring your son to his place? How does he interact to your son? These are just simple cues that you alone can answer and please, I dont mean to be judgemental, As a person with three kids who had an affair, it took a lot of learning from my part to accept this reality and finally realize, he was not willing to put up with my situation/baggages!

    Thu 5, Mar 2009 at 4:53am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi it's Katrina (K)  I forgot t sign my earlier post 3/5 4:33 am

    Thu 5, Mar 2009 at 4:59am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi, thanks for all your advice, K my son is my fiances so he really doesnt have a choice in that one!!  as for my affair the guy hasnt seen my son in about eight months as i felt it was wrong to bring my child into the situation....he did meet him prior to this and was really good with him but my son wasnt really talking at this stage and as soon as i thought my son would know what was going on or could perhaps talk about it i felt so guilty i havent involved him in this mess since.
    As for whether i think he is ready for all this i dont know, i wouldve said yes about four months agao but the way he has been getting on lately im leaning towards no, we spoke yesterday for me to hear him say that sometimes he wants me sometimes he doesnt that he thinks he might be too young to settle down and he still wants to have fun, so i asked him does he want me out of his life and let him move on then he said no, hesaid he just doesnt want to feel the pressure of if i leave my fiance for him that he is obligated to stay with me.  He said he would feel guilty if i left and we didnt work out.  But then he also added he still wants me to leave and give it a go.  I also was told i may be too old for him lol which is nice seeing as im only 28.
    My fiance and i have been living as if married and although we dont have that marriage certificate yet i feel just as like we are and thats why im so stressed.
    I cant figure out how i have love for both men.  I love them both in very different ways.  I am just so confused although i feel my affair guy is waving a red flag with the way he's been recently as he has been lying etc and i know he is going on a mad night out this weekend but has told me he's not doing anything at the weekend.  I think he wants me yet he wants his freedom too.  I know on the otherhand that my fiance loves me and our son very much.  I just feel so torn and stuck.
    Kat x

    Thu 5, Mar 2009 at 8:52am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    i just wish i knew who it was i loved and who i should cut out...

    Thu 5, Mar 2009 at 8:53am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Actually you CAN'T know this while you are dating two people.  Trust me.  YOU CAN'T.   You aren't with either of them.  My advice to you having been through this is to tell you AP that you simply must give it one final shot with your fiancee to see if it is really worth it.  Then DO IT.  Then figure out for sure.  THEN if you still want to be with your fiancee great.  If not, separate and then see if the AP is out there and you can give that relationship a good clean shot.
    He is right to be scared.  What if he made you leave and then when you two are together 100% you actually aren't compatible?  What if he took your fiancee's son away from him?
    I am not in anyway being so blunt so as to be uncaring.  TRUST ME.  I DIDN'T do this and I am suffering.  It is MUCH WORSE this way.  I have no option now and have lost one relationship and screwed up another completely.  You do NOT want this.  Especially with a child!
    Pick one, make a decision and then see if it is the right one.  Make it.  Give it everything you have and see if it works.  Then you can say for sure.  You CANNOT know or figure out who you love in the position you are in and thinking and thinking about it won't help you solve it.  TRUST ME.
    I would give anything to be where you are right now with the knowledge I have gained (well, hopefully)

    Thu 5, Mar 2009 at 11:18pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Kat,  my apologies-
    Several months to couple years after the birth of our first born, my husband and I felt so distant. I felt like he lives in Mars and I in Venus. LOL in fact, I even read that book! There were lots of "silent" treatment, no sex, less date or eat out- the world just became too tight, too miserable and too stressed out for both of us. We even talked about divorce!!!and yes, I was also 28 years old and he was 30.
    If it was not because of my sister- I would have left the marriage without a doubt. I decided to stick around knowing that both of us are pretty new to parenting and of course, as struggling parents, each one is prone for mistakes and imperfections. The expectation was too high and not realistic at all. The focus shifted from "me" to our son- who has all our attention. THe sex life was forgotten because of exhaustion and desperation in making sure we are always there for our son.- Whew. those were the days.
    Now that we have 3 kids- we learned from it a lot. Ten years ago, I too have second thoughts prior to committing myself to marriage- Please take note- I got pregnant without knowing it and when I knew about it, I was thousand miles working, away from my fiancee.  To the point of giving birth without him by my side. At that point in time I had 4 choices(my former boyfriend for 3 years, my 6 months boyfriend, a really great male friend since HS and a former colleague whom I have a huge crush) were all willing to marry me. I have loved them in a different way, there is one for convenience because I know I will never have to really, really, work hard but still can enjoy life, there is one who swept me off my feet and are close to my family, the other one who saw me growing up and and has been a great mentor and friend and whose family were close to me and finally, a former colleague who was willing to give up his work from out of state to join me. Gosh too many choices I thought.. I could have spent my time thinking about but I did not. I took the liberty and decided that I MUST marry the father of my child for obvious reason. Hey, I don't want to hear "he is not my son" phrase had I marry someone else. That for me is detrimental!. Yes, I love my fiancee but, we have been away close to 2 years and he was not there for the entire time I was pregrant! You thought I would have been wiser. The other male aspirants were not also visible as they are thousand miles away too.
    I guess what I am trying to say, choose wisely. If I would have a chance, I would have followed my heart more than what's traditional. I don't know if I would have the same life now but at least, I would have been bolder (while still young) then to stand and decide from my heart. Had a met the guy I had an affair with 6 months ago in the last 10 years, not being married, I could have chosen not to get married! I think it's the excitement and how it makes us feel better about ourselves that makes us vulnerable with our choices.
    Now that the affair is over, I can boldly say that all I want is stability in a relationship. You know that he will be there for me no matter what. The assurance that he will love me even if I have lines in my forehead. That he will be there even if I dont feel like making love ( in some days). Yes, I still think about my "chances" and yes, I may have regrets but I would not have been who I am today without taking the plunge of doing things that were uncertain.  I guess my affair was a result of my previous suppressed emotional feelings in the past...
    perhaps- had i been bolder enough before, i believe the affair would not have existed at all

    Fri 6, Mar 2009 at 4:46pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    thanks for the advice, i guess i knew what everyone would say....but its so hard to give someone you love up and as i am confused about what and who i want i think im just trying to see if there is any other way than just picking one and hoping for the best knowing full well i will lose the other.
    Not too sure what way i will go....probably taking the easy option and stay with my fiance and see what happens....
    i should never have given into temptation but when you're at a low point in your life and a guy comes a long who makes you feel so good and tells you the things you want to hear when your partner isnt doing any of these things its easy to get swept away with it all....

    Fri 6, Mar 2009 at 8:01pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi emily- did you hear anything from William? do you still think of him more often? I've been sick for 3 days and yet all I could think of was my lover. i dont really know. I thought I have gotten over him that much but the thought of him for the last several days just keeps getting stronger. Have you felt this way too? what does this mean? is he thinking the same? Had I not broken if off with him, We are supposed to have our weekend bed and breakfast getaway this weekend. A trip he planned early January. Im glad it didnt push through either since i really feel crap-
    I just want to ask everyone- do you believe that when you think of someone so clear and so real does this mean that someone is also thinking of you? I want to think yes. But hey, let me know if this is true or not. I want to believe in metal telepath.

    Sat 7, Mar 2009 at 7:36pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    K. this is Jenny. You are not alone, I broke the NC and called my friend M yesterday because I have missed him so much lately while I think I am getting over it. I have found out that he has been asking about me through other co-works, he know what is my next project, where I will be working at. I thought I has moved on and probablly never bother to think about me, but it is not true. i can tell he still think about me and cares about what is going on with me although I told him not to contact me in anyways because I wanted him to move on and start his life. Now I wonder if it IS possible to maintain friend after all?
    I bought him a shirt and mailed it to him after we went NC, -- he told me he liked the shirt and it was ot too big and not too small. he liked it. I feel happy abou it. I guess I just could not forget about him yet. I still care about how he thinks of me too much. I feel happy after I talked to him for a while but start missing him again.
    I do not know how long it will take me to totally over this...But I do feel happier and happier each day as deep in my mind I know he deserve his own life.
    Anyways, hope we will all get pass this messy time of our life and be stronger.

    Sat 7, Mar 2009 at 11:10pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Jenny, Thank you! Finally, it is great to hear a great story this time.  All of my friends are telling me NOT to call neither have any contacts with him at all. Sometimes, I find myself regreting the fact that I listened to a girlfriend who coached me what to respond in text (which resulted to my break up) because it just did not reflect my 100% sincerest intentions. Yes, I was upset, angered and definitely responded out of it instead of dealing things soundly and wisely.  I could have talked to him face to face at least we could have closure or perhaps, maintain friendship and be civil you know, like mature and professional people. Besides, we started as friends anyway.
    In my case he asked me if my decision not to talk to him was final, I said yes, then he said not to contact him ever again. I tried. I called him 2 times within a week to 3rd week after the breakup-  he did not call. I texted him 2x too  he did not call either. I was hurt and took it seriously and thought maybe he has moved on. Besides, I heard from my girlfriend (who coached me) that she overheard he is dating. WHen asked her about my lover, this girlfriend of mine said that it would not be good for me know more about him neither hear anything about him therefore, she is not telling me. I felt tortured. Although I find half of her reason acceptable (example: I dont want  to hear he is seeing someone else,or he is really dating or worst he is engange or something!) I would have regret hearing about it.
    Now, I really don't have any idea neither any clue how he is doing, how he's been,  if he is still thinking of me or what? I just wish he still is. I can't believe why I am still hoping.
    Honestly, Yes, I regret what I've done but part of my being still wants to continue seeing him. I may need time for soul searching. Or maybe I just miss talking to him and just being with him around. I like the idea because I know it made me a much better person- it brought out the best in me! So, I just wish we still can be friends.

    Sun 8, Mar 2009 at 3:14am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I too have just stumbled on this site and read all that has been happening in your various lives. I have been married for 11 years and together for 16. We got on great had alot of fun but I never enjoyed the way he kissed though sex was quite good. On the day we got married I was terrified and felt sick though just the two of us there, I never really questioned getting married it was just a very natural progression. Over the years we have both changed..before we married he was a student so I never realised he was a workaholic. We now have two children 8 and 6 and though he works long hours when he is arround he is a very good commited father. I accepted his work routine and in some ways was proud of him for being such a good provider but I am a very unmaterialistic person so there did come a point when I began to feel resentful. Over the past 5 years I have tried to get him to spend more time at home/ focus on the family a bit more but after half hearted efforts he would always revert to his old ways. Finally the penny dropped that things were never going to change and something in me snapped and I realised I would have to look for fulfillment elsewhere. I have started going out with friends more, looking after myself more and having more fun. When the children were small my sex drive was poor but it has since returned. I am totally unattracted to my husband physically or emotionally. We haven't had sex for months. I find his drive to have a big house etc really unattractive especially now with the credit crunch where we are now really tight for cash because we are living in a big house we dont need that I never wanted and that I made clear from the outset that I felt was a bad idea. ( At the time we discussed it he got cross and said he works hard and should be able to have it if he wants it. Now we have to count every penny and holidays etc are rare and pretty bad ie cant go abroad or go to hotel/ somewhere nice..which is much more important to me, to have new experiences than to have a big house which quite frankly I just resent cleaning!! I did have a couple of meaning less clinches with a gardener ( such a cliche!!) but did not get seriously intimate..I cant imagine destroying our family unit, but also find it hard to imagine this is it..I think he knows we are in trouble but is afraid to talk about it.. pre gardener a couple of times suggested seeing counsellor but he said they always lead to a split..  on couple of occasions have been tempted to try to talk he avoids me. Last year when we did talk a bit ( whilst on a pretty poor holiday though grateful as dont think we'll have one this year at all) and I said I felt resentful that because of his choice our whole lifestyle had changed, I also said issues were not about him anymore but about me and strange thing is most of  the things I'd been arguing for for the past 5 years, like him being home to see the children in the morning sometimes, just taking part in family life more etc he's finally started doing. Sad thing is what seems to have prompted him into action was the realisation that I didn't care anymore. He used to travel with work and spend alot of time away. He has hardly been away for the past 3 months. I appreciate his efforts but feel angry too as it just feels too late. I dont choose to, but when he touches me I go completely cold. I'm wondering if there is another way.. can a couple be good friends and good parents witout being lovers? I want more, can't help contemplating an  affair despite all I've read here..   would appreciate your thoughts.. 

    Mon 9, Mar 2009 at 12:56pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    hi all,
    update...seen my guy at the weekend for an hour when i went out with a friend, we still love each other so finding it difficult to let him go as we did kiss x

    Mon 9, Mar 2009 at 1:57pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi all, wow! I haven't logged in for nearly a week because I was re-focussing on my marriage with my husband (after the affair) and today when I logged in, there have been so many posts since! I'm glad everyone has been sharing and updating each other.
    Surprisingly W contacted me a few days ago to ask me how have I been as he has been worried of me since I just "went silent" and he wanted to make sure I am OK. I replied saying I am fine and doing alright and focussing on my new life chapter (but did not tell him im giving my marriage another try, he can have a guess either im proceeding with a divorce or giving my husband another chance, I just dont want to go into detail with him). He then replied saying he is pleased and happy to know I am Ok and hope we stay in touch.
    Well, I am pleased he has gotten in touch with me because I like to stay as friends with him and I am glad he was the one to make the first move. I once was in love with him (still like him) and even though now I am trying to move on without him but I still like to remain friends. However, I dont want to fall into a pattern of daily emails or texts because that is risky - I can fall back into square one with him again and might started seeing him again. For now, I want to keep a safe distance.
    Things have improved with my husband, much to my surprise. To the writer above who said as we grow older, "I realise sex isn't everything", I just have to agree. As long as there is some kind of intimacy and reasonable amount of sex, that is good enough (after a 10 years marriage). We can't expect real, red hot sex after 10 years. But I am happy as long as I can reasonably be intimate with my husband on a regular, healthy basis. If you know what i mean!
    Kat, there are bound to be days when you feel a bit lower than usual and you think of him a bit more than usual. You have to help yourself by avoiding things that trigger those feelings - change the radio channel, use a different road, put away things that remind you of him. You just have to avoid all those "trigger" factors.
    Suzzy, it seems that your lover is really trying to move on by not replying your texts or responding. Someone got to make the first decision to end all these. Its very rare affairs have a happy ending, as we all learn by now. How are things with your husband lately?
    Ivan, you are doing the right thing by putting your energy into your family and work because that's where the priorities are. Since she is pregnant with her husband's baby and its really in your best interest to stay away from this whole scenario and give your attention to your family who deserve it. I wish you the best and we all know, time is a healer although it may take a long, long time....
    As for the telepathy question, if you think of someone, is that person thinking of you? Well I think it may not necessary be so. I like to think of it too because I am a little hopeless romantic but I know in reality, it doesn't always work like this. I know now and again W still wonders about me (thats why he contacted me out of the blue to see how I am getting on) but then, sadly, its just not meant to be. He can't have a relationship with me as I am a mum to young kids who just couldn't leave the security of my marriage and he is in a complete different world/lifestyle. It's all bad timing and just not meant to be.
    I have learned in life, we can't always have what we wanted. That's something we got to learn as we grow older. There is just something we just got to live without. 
    Keep in touch, all.

    Mon 9, Mar 2009 at 5:15pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Thanks Emily, i know what you mean but i guess i just am at the stage of not being able to let go but really wanting to...feel so messed up.

    Wed 11, Mar 2009 at 1:53pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Emily, How are you doing after you talked to W again? For me, I feel miserable after I talked to M again last Friday. Had a bad weekend and sleepless for the past a few days. -- I have decided to go to not contact,,nothing from now on. It does not work --- I can not handle it to be just friend yet.
    K -- sorry, it does not work for me. I think your friend is right about NC.
    Good luck everyone.

    Wed 11, Mar 2009 at 2:25pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    HI everyone, this is K- Guess what? Today I got a text from my BF out of nowhere! Haha, I was so happy just to see his name on my phone. Of all other questions, he asked if there was a cafeteria in my complex since he is going there this afternoon for his eye appointment. Now, I don't know what to answer. Of course there is a cafeteria! But was so concern on how i respond. I over analyzed all the time. I responded, there are eateries all around. He then said is it in complex A? I said , possibly. Why don't you check with the receptionist in you MD's office? He said he will come in early and said thanks!
    I thought about my responses and yes, it's all cold responses- I was talking to my GF who helped me what to say. I felt bad thought. I thought, my BF would know if there are any places to eat that's close by or perhaps, would eat first before seeing a MD without bothering me but, look, he took time to asked a stupid question like this. So, maybe he is just indirectly checking me out or "feeling" me if I want to see him while he's in my area. So, I texted him back and told him I was glad to hear from him and wished I had time today to meet him. (I dont want to impose or ask if he wants to see me or vice versa) He said it's ok, he was so busy with his research grants and arranging his eye surgery. I told him OK, if you are not busy anymore, give me call if you'd like to talk. He said about what? It was you who didnt want to talk. I said, I have said things out of anger from our last conversation. He said, that's for sure. i asked him if he was angry with me and if he wants to talk? He did not respond to these questions but  instead he responded that he could not find the building where his appointment was.I gave him direction. He discreetly complained on how disorganized that office was... then that's were our next text conversation was  focused on.
    In my assessment, I am already happy that he did contact me. period. I have given him the impression that I am interested to talk (if he chooses)-the ball is on him if he wants to talk or just pretend nothing happened. I am seeing that he is trying to avoid talking about what happened either; he is embarrassed that I finally knew what's going on or, just don't have the balls to defend himself nor to present any reason aside from the truth. I can't explain how rewarding, how glad and how pleased I am to hear something from him. I did not ask about his eye surgery although I am aware about it previously.  I did not answer his last text. I am sure he will text back.
    Lesson learned:for us women, regardless how overwhelmed we are with our emotions to call our BF, no matter how strong the urgency to text or email or just call in spite of the break up- please hold off! I prayed hard and submitted everything believing that if this is not what He plans out, then HE will take it out of my life and He will take charge or my feelings. He if it is meant for us to talk, then He will find a way- He did!  It is good to have a feeling that we are sought after instead of us doing the hunting!.

    Fri 13, Mar 2009 at 11:26pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Things have gone really bad. P decided for reasons unexplained that he needed to reveal to his wife. This then lead to them turning up at myhouse unannounced, when he told my husband.
    Feeling sick all the time. The betrayal by him is immense.... cant see how to go on

    Sat 14, Mar 2009 at 9:57am
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Firstly Suzzy, this is real bad. How do you feel towards P now that he decided to tell his wife? Do you think he did it out of Self Defence Mechanism as he is worried his wife is close to finding out so its best for him to come clean first? How is your husband handling the whole thing and how is the friendship between you and P's wife now? Im sorry to hear that but I wish you strength to handle this uncomfortable and distressing situation. Sooner or later, affairs usually come out in the open and perhaps you can turn it around to something positive out of it? I know it sounds impossible at this mo but when all these are over, you can start a new, fresh beginning without feeling the need to look back your shoulder anymore. At least its all out in the open. Its not entirely your fault, it takes two to tango so don't feel all the blame is on you. And P must be unhappywith the marriage in the first place to have an affair with you. Please update us. Will be thinking of you.
    K, its true what you said. Sometimes when you take a step back and be a bit more relaxed with men, they seem to wonder about you and come running after you instead. And if a guy is really keen on you, he will find a way to get in touch. Don't find excuses for him. Ever seen the film or read the book; He's Just Not That Into You?
    Jenny, I have lose interest with W. I think I have gotten over him and am now moving on. I feel I am better off without him and all the stress involved. It also has a lot to do with my self dignity. I want an All or Nothing relationship, if he can't provide emotional security and fulfillment or commitment to the level I want, then its all wasting my time and also, risking my marriage for nothing.
    Im happier as a whole person being a wife and mum to my beautiful children. I still think of W now and again but not that much anymore. When I think of him now, I no longer feel the pain aching in my heart. Its more like sweet memories that put little smile on my face. It was nice to be romanced and chased that way by a guy again and I felt a bit priviledge to have that experience after marriage. But I will no longer be reckless again, risking my marriage in that manner again. At the mo, relationship with my husband is quite well so I am focussing on it and my family.
    Keep in touch, all.

    Sat 14, Mar 2009 at 10:29am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    My feelings towards P are confused. On the one hand I hate him because he has dumped on me from huge height. I have had to tell my parents, my husband whilst knew about me having an affair, now knowing who it has made it ten times worse. But on the other hand, the feelings of love dont want to leave my head and I am not in any way undertanding why.
    I think you are right, I think his wife was close to finding out. Apparently since the first call, there have been others and the worse thing is he thinks it is me!! As if, well he is finding out and when he does he will know its not but don't suppose I will get an apology do you. He seems to be trying to make me out to be the bad guy, but it is 50 50. Why do us women always come off worse!
    Obviously, his wife and I will never speak again, so i have lost a good friend through a stupid act and there is no one else to blame. P and i were un thinking.
    What the hell did he think would be gained from telling her? It was the one thing i thought we agreed on even though there were timess when we both felt we may reveal, never thought would. I know I would not have as in no way did i want this bloody mess.
    My husband is being very good and is prepared to give me time, but I do need to resolve my feelings. To be honest I feel, there is no way forward with my marriage even if I would like to hope for it. Feel to far gone.

    Sat 14, Mar 2009 at 10:54am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Feelings nolonger confused. It is now apparent that he is not taking any of the blame. All me and I guess you could say his true colours are emerging. Quite rightly, a mutual friend (not mine now though) had a real go at me yesterday. I deserve but does take two, but us women will always come off worse.
    Moral - just dont ever get involved in an affair.

    Sun 15, Mar 2009 at 10:05am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I am new here, spent about an hour reading these posts.  Long and complicated story [24 years together but always up and down] and yes, I was looking for some comfort and solutions on this site.  Not knowing how all of your stories were going to end as started at the beginning -certainly didn't see myself posting a comment at the end! 
    BUT, must say to Suzzy, hang in there.  You are at the lowest point and it is so awful to be judged by others when they do not realise how unhappy you felt and the torment you have been through.  Betrayal by a lover is one of the worst things -it has happened to me and my world fell apart for quite a while. You lose your confidence and hate yourself.  BUT you need to go for counselling and work through things and you will learn to love yourself again.  At least you have found out his true colours before setting up home with him.  It is going to be like a bereavement, but in time, it will be the distant past and you will look back and think what the hell did I ever see in him.  People will eventually forget the scandal and life will go on...  good luck

    Mon 16, Mar 2009 at 10:59am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    To the above.
    Not that I am glad it has happened to you but it is of some comfort. Right now I feel like S***. Feel a guilt towards her that I never felt when she did not know, and am totally bewildered as to why he let me down by doing the one thing we always swore not too. Now two families have been affected and whilst the affair was wrong, it had ended (all being me having trouble getting over it - but thats broken hearts for you) so why, why why!!!! Just wish did not see him still, and at moment every day - though easier to see him than it will be to see her when she does the school run again.
    I know its too late but wish I could say sorry to her. think in a few months i will write her a letter. Not that it will fix anything, but none the less. Every morning wake up feeling sick, and stupidly still of him. Thought he was my soul mate, he was everything and now there is nothing. Feel so lonely.

    Mon 16, Mar 2009 at 2:11pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Ok well I havent seen my guy now in over a week and on saturday night things took a turn for the worse with him leaving me more confsed than ever.  I was supposed to see him on sunday for a belated birthday lunch (mine) as obviously on my actual birthday we couldnt be together.  On saturday moring he text saying he was looking forward to it so much and we would have a brilliant day.  He went out with his brother and dad and some of his friends during the day to a moto cross race and i didnt hear much off him all day.  That evening he came on the net and we started instant messaging although i knew somthing was up.  I asked him where we were going for lunch on sunday and he said he didnt know and he hasnt thought about it.  I asked him if he still wanted to see me and he said "I dont know" and so i tried to phone him and he wouldnt answer and IM'd me saying im not answering and i said why and he said i dont want to talk about it.  From then on the conversation turned sour out of the blue he said he didnt love me, he had been lying to my face when he said he did, he didnt care about me, he didnt want to see me, or anything to do with me, i dont deserve him and he hopes i get caught.  He went on to say he had so much fun that day with "the lads" and he doesnt want to settle down he wants to have fun and see other women.......I was shocked.....this was the same guy that the day before was telling me how much he missed me, loved me, wanted children with me and wished he was coming home from work to my house.  I was and am totally confused and heartbroken.  He said then for me not to email, text, phone, or anything him he then said "see you around, nice knowing you" and went off.....I did text asking him what the hell had gone on and he refused to answer, i eventually got a reply the next day saying he does love me and miss me but he is very close to his family and cant see himself being with me as i live in a different town (only an hour drive away).....I said but if i do leave my fiance i am open to moving.  He then said for me to leave my fiance and THEN we can talk about whats happening with us and see where we can go from here!!  Then he has been unresponsive to most of my texts since yesterday unless i say something sexually suggestive.
    I dont know what to think.  Please help.

    Mon 16, Mar 2009 at 2:21pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    I am soo sorry. If nothing more, your and my experiences show that SOME men are driven by their neather regions. I can totally relate to the heartache you suffered when he said dont contact him, etc etc. as this is what has happened to me and now I have to see him virtually every day but cant even look at him.
    I think you should seriously think about your feelings towards your fiance. I know this is hard and you must be torn in two, but whilst it would be hard to leave, better before marriage and kids ~(sorry cant remember if you have kids).  He has acted badly and to say he wants you to get caught is harsh. But love is a funny thing.
    Perhaps he thinks you are not serious about him so that is why he says what he does. It would be best to leave because it is not a good relationship rather than leaving for the other but having said that i know in my heart I woul d have left my h for p.
    Do you know who you want? forget the difficultly in getting it, do you in your heart know?
    Once you have that decision, the hard task starts. If it is not your fiance, then take the risk. If it doesnt work out at least you know you went with your heart and there will be another for you. the world is a big place.
    Keep in touch

    Mon 16, Mar 2009 at 4:46pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hello All.  Ivan here.  First of all, I would like to point out that these situations (as much as it may seem) aren't really about how "men" act or how "women" act or anything.  I realize most of you on here are women, but trust me, we men feel hearbroken too and get confused by women just as much.  I don't think its spoken of and men are supposed to be strong and most of the time probably aren't lurking on this board (er, so what happened to me?) but it goes both ways.  I know none of you mean anything different, just wanted to let you know that its not like men act one way and women another.
    In any event, Suzzy, I'm terribly sorry for your situation and that your affair has been revealed by your lover.  My case wasn't that exactly but I know how you feel about everything getting out in the open (well, not everything, but a lot).  Its ugly and makes you sick and...I feel for you.  I really do.  I've been there (am there?)
    Kat, I also feel your pain, and have been where you are too.  But one thing I really really want to point out to you (and learned the hard way myself, and still am learning) is that its not fair for you to sit there and say that your guy acts one way one day and another the next day and your confused because he's the same guy and you don't understand.  He certainly doesn't seem to be behaving consistantly and also is saying things that are far from being loving or very nice, but put yourself in his shoes.  One minute he is hearing from you that you want to be with him and then you don't.  One minute you are in love with him and want to have children with him, but you already have a fiancee and child with him, right?
    Please don't misunderstand me.  I feel for you and I have been in your situation and felt exactly the same.  I couldn't understand how my AP would say at one moment she wanted to be with me and we should do XYZ in the future and how she'd found a good guy for my sister to date or whatever and then turn around the next moment say how she couldn't leave her husband.  How then was she expecting we'd be together to do all these things?  And you know what, it WASN'T fair.
    But then I also eventually put myself in her shoes.  Why would she leave her husband for me (especially after she got pregnant) when I couldn't commit to her and hadn't left my own situation and wasn't taking the chance to sit there and wait for her to come to me?  I never said I love you enough to jump first.
    Now I'm not saying your situation is the same and I'm not saying that your guy has every right to waffle back and forth and send you mixed messages. But I bet he is GETTING mixed messages and probably is terribly confused and hurt himself.
    I guess my point in all this is that I'm with Suzzy.  Just DON'T have an affair (mind you, I didn't take my own advice which is why I'm here).  Figure out one relationship before starting another.  I think I mentioned before that my advice to you is to figure out your relationship with your fiancee once and for all and then either move on or commit, but only AFTER that could you figure out what is really happening with this other guy and what he thinks.
    And do not for a second think that I am suggesting that will be easy.  Every day I think about my AP and wonder how she is and what she is doing and how I can move on and...but I am not calling her and I am trying desperately to focus on my marriage and realize my very selfish behavior and how unfair I've been.
    Sorry, I don't mean to give harsh advice or tell you what to do and maybe I'm even speaking to myself more than you, but I guess all I'm trying to say is, when I was getting mixed messages and saying/thinking how unfair it was and how heartbroken I was and how could I trust what she was telling me, I realized that she was probably thinking the exact same thing and was just as scared as me.
    That's all.  Best of luck.

    Mon 16, Mar 2009 at 6:35pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi all...I guess I know what you're saying...but as you know yourself its all easier said than done.  I asked him why he said what he did and you were right Ivan he told me that i shouldnt get at him for giving me mixed messages as after a year of me wanting to be with him i am still living with my fiance and he feels i am giving him mixed messages.  He said he was saying everything and anything to try and make a break from us and he thought if he said what he did thought we'd be able to just leave us alone that i'd be too angry to try and reconcile and he could just get away...basically im on the verge of losing him. And he said he cant cope anymore with me being where i am and either i sort it out or he is gone.

    Wed 18, Mar 2009 at 9:21am
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi all, haven't logged in for a little while but read all the posts above.
    Ivan, Im glad you write again to update a bit on yourself and its good to hear from a man's point of view too. Well done for "sticking to your gun" and refraining from contacting her but continue to concentrate on your family. I'm sure it doesn't take "a snap of finger" and like magic, to erase our feeling off someone. It's going to hurt and continue to hurt a long time (for most people) but we must continue to focus on our priorities and put some sense back into our life once again.
    Although when feeling "dizzy in love" with W, I was on cloud nine and have secret smiles paste on my face a lot but I had a lot of stress and uncertainties that come along with that so it wasn't all positive and lovely. I no longer sit and yearn for W like a lovelorn person but i have come to term with our break up. I am happy to move on and seem to enjoy my family life once again. Now and again, he pops into my head but that's about it (getting less each day).
    Suzzy, how's things lately? I agree too that Never Involve in an Affair as it hardly have a fairytale ending. I agree with Anon on 16th March at 1059am who said Its like bereavement, it will all pass with time and scandals will also pass, people move on. Its true. Just give it time. Keep strong and don't take all the blame, ignore playground gossips and just concentrate with your kids/family from now. No one should have  judged you for it because until they are in that position, they won't understand. It can happen on anybody - young or old, rich or poor, intelligent or not, good or bad. Months down the road, if you want, you can write to his wife a letter but for now, its best to just stay out of it until things calmed down.
    Kat, how's things these few days? I've learned my lesson from being with W. Most men will get excited by sexually explicit texts, its encouraging for them. If it takes a sexual explicit text to get him particularly interested then that should tell you something about him. Doesn't it? I forget, do you have kids? Kat, if he is serious with you and want to have a proper relationship with you and take on responsibilities as a step dad and all, I think both of you need to sit down and talk about it. If he doesn't want to talk about it, that should also tell you something about him. You might have to question his level of commitment. 
    I feel a bit strange that a few months ago, I thought my marriage is beyond saving and was thinking of walking out but now I'm amazed that I'm enjoying my family life once again. I've learned an important lesson too. I've learned to be realistic about marriage/relationship. I was so taken in by romances and sweet talk/romantic gestures with W but I forgot that that's only early days. For a marriage of 10 years which I am in, I've to be realistic and accept that we've moved on far beyond that "early days of heart fluttering" but moved to another level of maturity in life where its more about Children, Security, Comfort, Contentment and Looking forward to spending the rest of the life together, watching the kids grow up, doing things together as couple and family and enjoying every moment of it and to cherish it. On the last day of my life, I want to look back at my life and know I've brought up happy children and been in a good marriage which ultimately means I've lived a beautiful life.
    Take care, all and write again with updates.

    Fri 20, Mar 2009 at 8:54pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Not coping well last few days. There is no playground gossip thankfully, poeple are just wondering why i and his wife are not speaking. Spoke to him the other day, he said things were not good at home, then yesterday they turned up at school holding hands like she was saying up yours!. I deserve it but it effected me so badly, I nearly threw up when got home. despite everything he has done, I still want him and seeing him all the time is soo bloody hard.
    has anyone got any advice how to cope with this. Want to move on but cant get him out of my head.
    Help please....

    Sat 21, Mar 2009 at 10:04am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    You have to try and distract yourself Suzzy.  [I am the one who said it is like a bereavement on 16th March].  Throw yourself into keeping fit and looking good -not that you probably don't already, but it is just such a good distraction and mood enhancer and you end up looking really good. 
    The other thing to do is try to avoid bumping into them at school.  Can someone else do the school run or can you arrive early? 
    You have to nurse yourself through this -a bit like recovering from addiction to something.  Think of ways to avoid contact.  You must also look strong as you do not want to appear to be sad or needy -be strong and confident.  Look like you blame him rather than being a victim.  Buy some smart clothes, but not ones that look like you are trying to attract anyone.  You could buy yourself a book on how to cope -there are plenty in the bookstores. 
    Hang in there -it will slip into the past as long as you let it. 

    Sun 22, Mar 2009 at 9:21pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Thanks so much.
    I am deterimined to get through this, though hard as I still want him and its so hard to see them together. I have been smiling and will continue to do so, can not let him or her see what this is doing to me.
    Going for a run later and thiink this will be good for me, blow rubbish away.
    Your words have inspired me to move on, slow road but must act as if, as Catherine Tate would say, 'am I bothered!' Even though inside I am falling apart.
    Two pieces of advice to all those out there - dont get involved in a affair, the heartache is awful and NEVER put a man before friendship - I have lost a good friend.
    Thanks so so much.

    Mon 23, Mar 2009 at 10:26am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Suzzy, I (Ivan) share your pain.  I cannot stop thinking about her and I cannot stop missing her.  I keep waiting for her to call me and tell me she can't live without me even while I am trying to work on my own marriage.  I want to be a faithful husband and I know I have my own things to work on and need to focus on my own marriage.  I have not called or emailed her although I want to all the time.  I still cannot believe she is having someone else's child and we'll never be a family like we'd talked about.  I never made a move, but neither did she.
    Right, so if anyone has any advice as to how to move on, I'm all for it too.
    And I also wish that I'd never had an affair.  I can say now how horrible I'd been behaving and how I took everything I had for granted and how I am not that person any more.  And then yet I feel ashamed and guilty for how much I miss my AP and how I can't stop thinking about her or "what if...".
    Even when I think that she is going ahead and starting a family with her husband and I remember that she chose him instead of me.  I just can't seem to get her out of my head.  It sounds so stupid when I write it out like that. 
    I know these are all life's lessons and we do (I suppose) learn them no matter how painful.  But I can't seem to move on with my life.
    I want to believe that I am a good person who wouldn't do the things that I used to do and can be a good, loving husband.  So WHY am I still thinking this way?

    Mon 23, Mar 2009 at 6:16pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    We all feel this way because love takes a piece of our hearts.  It doesnt go away easily....even when its wrong we sometimes cant help who or what we want.  Love can be wonderful but also the worst thing in the world.  I have no time tonight but will update you all on my situation tomorrow. thinkin of you all.

    Mon 23, Mar 2009 at 10:12pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi ok to update....the reason we shouldnt have affairs is cuz you could end up like me....ok so my AP started being nasty as i have already it turns out i am on my 6th day late and could be pregnant by him, as ive not been having sex with my fiance then he is the only candidate.  So i told him when i was concerned and he had left me out to dry.  says hes too young for all this, he doesnt love me or want me and that i am totally to blame for the fact i may be pregnant.  he said his family will be disappointed but he knows they will support him but as for me he basically said "you're in a bad situation" basically he was saying tough luck.
    Problem being now i have no choices.  The way he has been has made me realise how lucky i am to have my fiance and how much i dont want to leave him and be with a jerk that has done nothing but treat me like shit the last couple of months, but what do i do?  I dont think i could ever have an abortion and i dont want to be a single mother to two children a toddler and a newborn.  Also if my fiance finds out he will kill me and my AP.  I dont know what to do.  This is why we shouldnt have affairs.  This is how messy they can get and it looks like i will end up alone with 2 children
    I dont expect sympathy as i brought this all on myself.

    Tue 24, Mar 2009 at 2:00pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    sorry to hear that, but don't you have the option of abortion?

    Thu 26, Mar 2009 at 3:05am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    by the way, i am only 23 and i have read all the articles above and i gotta say all this scares me. i originally thought nice and comfortable is enough in marriage. i didn't know that excitement is so important also even after 8 or 9 years in the "besieged city"(marriage).  after reading all these articles i think i will try very hard to please my wife at every opportunity when i am married.
    i gotta say, i feel for you,we all wanna marry who we love,if we can't be together we might as well die. but,why married the guy you didn;t love in the first place?
    thank you for sharing all your stories, i hope everything will be nice with you.

    Thu 26, Mar 2009 at 3:17am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    i live in option for abortion unless i travel away. but i dont know if i agree with it anyway.  I am pregnant. Dont think i can have a termination.

    Thu 26, Mar 2009 at 9:19am
  • Cc Morwenna Flag

    Hi Kat, sounds like you are in a very difficult situation at the moment.  You might want to think about contacting "Life", this is a charity who will advise you in a totally non-judgemental, non-directional way about what your options are at the moment.  Their website adress is and their free helpline number is 0800 915 4600 - you could either talk to someone over the phone, or arrange a face-to-face session with a trained counsellor if you wished, they have centres in Derry and Belfast if that is of any help.  Good luck, I hope you are able to make the right decision for yourself about your way forward.

    Thu 26, Mar 2009 at 10:56am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    thanks morwenna but i dont want to talk to anyone about it.  if you want me to stop posting i will.  things are just so complicated.  im supposed to be getting married in 11 months.  I dont want to go through with that either but my fiance and his mum went the other day without me knowing and put £1000 deposit on the venue and i have my dress that my mum and dad bought and they dont have a lot of money and spent £1000 on it. I am 28 and feel like a 17 year old trapped in a situation she can get out of.  so confused and upset.  I will stop posting.  Hope everyone elses situation works out.

    Thu 26, Mar 2009 at 12:51pm
  • Cc Morwenna Flag

    Hi Kat, it is absolutely your choice whether you talk to anyone about your situation or not, and please feel totally OK about continuing to post on this site if you want to, whatever you decide to do, it can be very helpful just to get the comments of other site users on your difficulties.  You will find that other users feel for you in your situation - as do I.

    Thu 26, Mar 2009 at 3:20pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    I think that there are alot of second hand Millls and Boons for unrequieted lovers arent there?
     And The Bridges of Madison County always does it for me...other than that, theres work, kids, community, friends and family to keep numbness and/or temptation at bay...
    Yes I go through alot of pillows with all the bitemarks but at least I dont have to worry about the smell of another making life a little more complicated than is absolutely necessary...

    Thu 26, Mar 2009 at 4:30pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Suzzy,
    This is poster from 16 and 22 March -let's call me April.  I am glad my words are of comfort to you.  It is all about dealing with the situation in hand.  Many years ago I was so naive and let something similar nearly destroy me, but eventually I got my confidence and self-esteem back. 
    I know what you mean about affairs, and I had a long phase after my betrayal where I grew fat and stayed in all the time.  My husband liked it cos he knew where I was, but it was no good for me.  Now I am thin and fit again and enjoy a social life and have friends, but even now, years on, as still unfilfilled I am unable to resist the lure... which is why I find myself here. 
    We are all very human -responding to somebody's affection and attention is so difficult to resist -even when you know  that you or somebody else is going to get hurt.  The trouble is we think we can just have a bit of fun -like someone taking drugs- we think we won't get addicted or caught.  As many of the other posters have said -none of us would recommend an affair, but have found ourselves unable to resist when the situation arises. 
    Just remember that all rules are created by society -originally we were animals and still have those instincts.  I truly believe that we just can't help it.  I only really fancy anyone when I am ovulating  -I am sure this drives me in any attraction I feel to other man. 
    I am pleased that you are running and trying to look strong in front of them -keep it up.  You are right, you just have to grit your teeth and bare it.  One day, somebody else will come along and it really will drift into the past -but as I said before you have to let it go.  Am I right inthinking you did split from your husband?  If so, you need to focus on going out and finding somebody new.  Don't go out 'on the pull' though -looking like you need it is such a turn off for men.  go out looking like you are already getting it -be smug, flirty but not sad looking.  Make sure you smile a lot when out and have a laugh.  I do hope that you have some girlfriends that you can call upon? 
    Keep gooing, April x

    Thu 26, Mar 2009 at 9:20pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi april,
    Thanks again for your thoughts. I have not split from my husband as yet. He wants to try and as we have kids I do feel as if I should. Trouble is, the affair was not the cause of our problems as I was unhappy before.
    Its so hard to face the playground every day, but I will not let my hurt show. I am fortunate that I do have some very good friends that give me support. I know it was wrong but at the time you dont see that,you just see a gorgeous man wanting you.
    He was certainly a drug, and just as a withdrawal from drugs causes pain and shakes, this is how i feel. Time will sort out but I will never get her friendship back and that hurts more than anything. How could I have been so foolish, its true what they say, you dont know what you've got til its gone.

    Fri 27, Mar 2009 at 10:02am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    Excuse me suzy, but I am not exactly sure why are you hanging around in the playground every day? (forgive me if it is in THERE somewhere, but I figured it would save me some time to ask, and I will undertake to eventually process all posts.)
    Do you think the kids are aware at all of the dynamics going on with the sexual politics, unspoken hostility and all the rest?
    I am personally struggling to get my head around this situation you have on your hands (not to mention the other fellows whose stories lie within)...the following of the path of sensuality and desire over familial love and duty and trying to have it all and not knowing whether it is right or wrong and/or what to sacrifice so therefore not really being able to make a decision and move on...these are just some of the themes that pop into my spinning head...
    I am doing my all not to come from a conformist and dogmatic morality (as I am sure that will be covered), and I am not going to advocate for free love, but I have a friend named Holly Hill who wrote a book called 'Sugar Daddy' and another called "toyboy' she advocates that partners should have negotiations about the issues that are on your plate, ideally before commitment starts and that this can address the 'terrible divorce rate', family breakdown/dysfunction etc and address repression through unfulfilled sex lives etc. (She is an Aussie, from my high school and has had a hell of a time, done some serious research, and had some very interesting adventures.)
    I guess your argument is a good rationale for the sex industry in a sense, but the money and choice issue can indeed the old days of western civilization prostitution was not a paid service but part of the ritual and culture of paying respect to the needs of nature within...and made sacred...the women who worked in them were priestesses' and chosen in some cultures some were orphans (high status), and it is said that they had some gift of healing in matters of the heart and flesh- but this is only speculation as far as I can tell. The mysteries of Eleusis parallelled these and were set into Roman times as witnessed on the walls and in extant books.
    I look on the whole thing with a kind of numb knowingness, as this was my hearts call for so long.
     I craved variety and challenges that were unacceptable to the general masse and felt like I was outside of the whole relationship marriage monogamy paradigm/thing in my consciousness, and was on one hand craving intimacy and partnership, and on the other freedom and unrestrained enjoyment.
    I dont know what happened exactly, but I started to notice some ppl who had loving loyal and committed relationships- old ppl mostly and was looking into and exploring what they do, why, how and what their understanding was. And slowly I realised that I was attracted to the things they had in their relationships , family and community life and wanted to work hard to have what I was seeing and admiring so much.
    A loving happy and committed couple is such a beautiful thing to me right now, and I am seeking some kind of template (woman) for my own efforts and plans- I love the humility genuineness and loving self sacrifice involved...the commitment to shared goals, the knowledge that closeness to a beloved is the greatest comfort in the later years, little things like that...
    I felt I was in a miasma of self indulgent sensuality at the end of my last phase and was disgusted and felt like mother nature had gotten hold of me and made me her fool...I was going through the rewards of being a breeder and that was my temple- the image of beautiful children who would never be, because the dual thoughts of knowing I could circumvent the process through birth control and the thought that the women I chose were like me- pleasure seekers and not really interested in natures plan of procreation- but the pleasureful act only, and thereby not at all interested in planting seeds and harvesting them to fulfillment... I sensed these barren crops were in my mind and in my heart and it cut into my sense of responsibility to tend my own garden.
    I see beautiful gardens in the image of lives dedicated to a largesse that I can only dimly fashion...incredible partnerships of goodness and strength, of sacrifices and trials, of dreams becoming plans, and the real, the blessed and beautiful right before me all along.
     Yes my first post was humour, because this is the way I like to relate....but in it I sowed a seed that became this post, 'theres work, kids, community, friends and family'.
     I went to a funeral of two who had become one- through marriage and saw a consummation that was as large as life itself, and their memorial was glorious and so noble, the good friends and work they had done for so many was like a vision of a fairytale- and like the lives of those who I have sought out and are still doing works of lasting merit and goodness- I realised that dreams can come true, that there is such a thing as 'true' and 'eternal'. Seeing and talking to the children of these ppl was a blessing, and I felt honoured to be in their presence, and felt especially honoured to call those ppl family.
     Seeing their last happy photo image together held before me by my own hand; and upon on the page of their funeral memorial a quote entitled 'love one another'- broke me open completely, and I wept inside (as I do now) at the beauty of those smiling eyes and entwined hearts...  
    I have lived one life of following my hearts desire and its pleasures, but now they are all harvested and the substance is consumed. I see another crop before me and am seeking in my humble way to sow seeds, build dreams into the real, share any goodness I have along the way and, wonder at it all, wonder...
    (A song comes into my head- 'we've only just begun'- Carpenters.)

    Fri 27, Mar 2009 at 5:14pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    'I really need (SOMEONE) to put my life back on track'... this is making me think suzy. What is the focus here? Where is the intent headed? What is the 'other' focus that is implied in this comment? I am not sure yet, but I am thinking and wondering...There is so much here that reminds me of someone I know, I am wondering if I should ask that someone, her, to look at this with me for a while... I will get back to it, but maybe someone else, maybe you, will jump on and give me a direction, a motive, a sign... something there... dont know what yet...but it is like a gadfly... 

    Fri 27, Mar 2009 at 6:25pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Comment has been deleted as it contravenes para 3.1.6 of the Terms and Conditions of the site.

    Sat 28, Mar 2009 at 2:31am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I feel you should not use marriage terms: love committment honesty feelings passion to articulate a betayal of these to an affair.  an affair is nothing more than that an affair.  Marriage is more sacred and deserves honor.  Marry the affair person and then have another affair and you are right where you can from.  Having honor and treating the married person with honesty to all your feelings is more...well honorable.  But having honor and being honest are hardest for people who have little or none.

    Sat 28, Mar 2009 at 4:17pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi to all, I haven't written for a while as I have been really concentrating on my family life since I moved on from my affair with W. I've read all the posts above.
    Ivan, I guess we can't help who we fall in love with (W once said that to me) and by being in love with this other woman doesn't make you a bad person. At least you did say you are trying hard to focus on your marriage and life now and trying hard to forget her, though it seems impossible. They say time will heal a broken heart. It's going to take an awful long time but I suppose that day will come. I say this with a sigh because I understand how difficult it is for you at this moment.
    Kat, how're things? You seem to be caught in a very tricky situation at the mo and I really feel for you. I hope you are not put off with writing in because sharing and expressing how you feel is one way to help you to offload your worries and stress.
    Suzy, we are all caught in the same "old rut" situation. It is the old rut we were in that somehow landed us into the arms of an attentive man. The old rut marital home life where our husband pays little attention to us and us spending all day and night running after the kids and looking after the household then along came a nice man who pays attention and gives us some adoration.... that's how we ended having an affair. I am not saying it's right thing to do or finding excuses for us. I think affairs are wrong and it hurts, its a betrayal. But it happens and I can understand why it can happens because it happened to me and many of us here.
    W sent me a message saying he still thinks about me and asks if my marriage is still going on or am I going for a clean-break from my husband? That made me cry because I thought I've moved on from him. I was so pleased with myself for getting over him. But I cried because he said he still thinks about me. And to know he is still hoping for something. He wanted to know my "position". I don't have the heart to tell him that I am giving my marriage another try. I haven't given him an answer because I don't know what to tell him. I realise I still have a spark for him. But I don't want to go down this road with him again. Am I able to resist him? Part of me still wants to flirt with him but I should have learned my lesson well. I've done so well and I should not give in now.

    Thu 2, Apr 2009 at 2:06pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    It seems 'part of you is 'making excuses'...the other part.
    Actually, it would seem to me that you are delectably toying with the idea of a fling with William and lying to perpetuate a sense of getting away with it all...kind of like a new season or something...
    Sometimes when I have nothing interesting to do, I find myself turning on the tellie and watching some soap or some other rerun...I always regret it...
    in your shadow,

    Thu 2, Apr 2009 at 9:13pm
  • User-anonymous sonshine Flag

    First post here. I have read all of the above and so much of it rings true for me. However, The roles are reversed. I am a man, with a wife and two kids (girls) and I have been having an affair for the last three months with someone from work.
    All started out with a bit of flirting the way these things do, and has ended up much further down the line.
    Want to stay with wife (W) and kids, but things not going well. No violence or anything like that, just we don't seem to get along anymore. Sex for her lacks passion and my sex drive is much higher than hers... has been for the 15 years we have been together. Trouble is she puts me way down the list of things to do after washing up, making tea, even getting ready for work.... I feel that i am not really desired anymore.
    So when he possibility of an affair (A) came along, I felt desired, wanted and actually, pretty special! (A) has since said she loves me, she is un-attached, self sufficient, and has no kids. She hates the idea of being in an affair, but has fallen for me in a big way...
    This "couples only" life style with (A) is hugely appealing to me as I met (W) at 21, got married to (W) at 24, and had kids at 27... I feel there has been a huge part of my life that I have yet to explore.
    Basically i feel trapped by my marriage and that (A) offers me an escape, the offer of a better life, a life where I can see my kids a bit, be desired by someone who LOVES sex and has a big a drive as I do, and who actually makes me feel special.
    But now I type all that I face my dilemma: I now feel like a complete git to my family and (W)
    I know the affair is wrong. (A) thinks I am so unhappy at home that I am about to leave and go and live with her.... But I can't leave my family, maybe not right now at least.
    My (W) thinks we are patching things up and we are making more of an effort to be together, to be more relaxed and not so grumpy all the time (the source of MANY arguments). It is seeing (A) who is making me more relaxed!!!
    At the moment, my ideal situation would be to live with (A) in my current house with my kids; i.e. for (W) to leave me, but there is no way that will happen!
    The other ideal situation is for me to feel so desired at home with (W) that the very idea of an affair is out of the question.... Now that isn't happening either. (W) does not do public displays of affection very much (PDAs) yet (A) does all the time and loves it.
    (A) says "I love you" just about every day to me and makes me feel special; I can't remember the last time my (W) said "I love you"
    (W) forgot valentines day.... said she was too busy despite having two days off in the week to organise presents and a card... I work 5 days a week, but still have got her something for the last 15 years.
    Sorry to ramble on here, but I seem to be with like minded people who are struggling with some of the biggest questions a marriage has to answer.

    Sat 4, Apr 2009 at 3:04pm
  • User-anonymous sonshine Flag

    Oh.. and (W) and I have been to Relate twice already.. Once before kids and once after.. They did not really help much, just talked about differences and made us cry a lot.

    Sat 4, Apr 2009 at 3:05pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    Why exactly are you standing around watching her do the dishes, clean and other housework?
    And youre cheesed off because she prioritises you down the list of necessaries?
    Sounds like priorities is a theme here- yours!
    do somthin...

    Sun 5, Apr 2009 at 6:01am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    (my questions and comments to silly suzie are actually meant to be addressed to Emilysmiles...)

    Sun 5, Apr 2009 at 6:02am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I feel sorry for the people married to you guys.  I am confused how you feel sorry for each other how you think you are pitiful while you lie and cheat on people trusting you.  How concerned you are for your feelings and not the feelings of those you vowed to honor.  Its like you want the marriage as a back up it things don't work out.  I agree though that if you are aware of your thoughtless mistake that you do not involve the person you cheated on to burden them with your deplorable behavior.  That they get to live their lives in innocents while you must deal with yours for the remainder of.  I do wish my wife had never told me if she was going to stay but them again when you find out after they die ...well then the entire marriage was a lie and they faked being your only.  It is a disaterous thing to cheat and lie and destroy the institution of marriage.  And it is why every human agreement states don't do real and do what is best...Cause no harm.

    Sun 5, Apr 2009 at 1:02pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Easy to have a go at those posting on here [to the above] but actually we are not bad people.  If we were bad we would just go "sod you and all my responsibilities, I am off".  Whereas we do not do that -we torture ourselves missing the person that makes us happy so as not to make others unhappy and take care to protect them from being 'found out' too.  
    It is just simply a very human thing to do.  We know it is a bad idea -just like smokers, drinkers, people who drive to fast, eat too much fat and so on, we all know that it is not good for us in the long run.  Marriage is a social construct - a rule made up over the ceturies to protect, for example, a woman against the risk of being abandoned with a child and no money.  Things have changed now -we can move on, but even so we recognise that this hurts the spouse and children, so we struggle with this most awful dilemma. 
    We are human, and we have needs, and sometimes these are not met within our relationship -it is sad for the partner, but that is how it is.  It would be best to deal with the primary relationship first, but clearly it just does not always work out like that because we are trying to protect people and not cause hurt. Invariably, the person having the affair feels awful -guilt, lonely, and even betrayal themselves [see Suzzy's experience].  
    To everyone who judges -STOP! It seems to me you are often recovering from having been the partner of someone who had an affair and you feel angry with yourself for not seeing what was happening -and them you are projecting the anger and blame onto others. 

    Sun 5, Apr 2009 at 9:04pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    to the above))  Marriage is not about women anymore and it is men and women being abandoned with children or no money.  I feel.))      If we were dealing with the primary relationship we would not hurt so many, the other, the primary, the kids, the relatives, the community.  I don't guess I am actually judging but wondered why ..  You say we are human and are just dealing with our Needs....I don't is just the dishonesty and not being true to the PRIMary, intitial feel good need met relationship all the vows were made to.  I like the ones who don't cheat and with careful love let the other person know they not the spouse are not able to support the relationship any longer and want to end it.

    Sun 5, Apr 2009 at 9:38pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    To sunshine -cake and eat it... somewhere along the line you will have to choose -will it be wife and kids or will it be the new woman? I think where it does become unfair is to carry on and on not pleasing either person -just you in the best of both worlds.  But that is not real -you can't have both for ever... 

    Mon 6, Apr 2009 at 5:42pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Does anyone know what the word commitment means???? When you marry, it is for life. It stops becoming I and turns into us. The problem I see on all of these posts is the lack of communication. We are all human. At one time or another we will find another person attractive or enjoy how we are made to feel attractive. Lets face it, after years in a relationship, the "newness" is gone. If you are considering jumping ship from what you consider a good marriage, remember, your new relationship will lose that "newness" as well. At some point in the relationship, it becomes about growing together. Today, it seems as though the only person we can think of is ourselves. I think it is time to do some soul searching and ask yourself what you want out of life. Relationships without trust never last. Without proper communication, trust turns in deceipt. I feel bad for the unknowing person. Any person who cheats, regardless of the situation, is selfish. Own up to your feelings in the relationship, then move on.

    Wed 8, Apr 2009 at 8:28pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I can speak from the other side of the tracks. Just under two years ago I met someone and had a very passionate affair with him. I felt strongly drawn to him and simultaneously realised this was a mark of the problems in my relationship with my husband of which I had not been properly aware. Things had deteriorated since the birth of our son and especially after I went back to work and our physical relationship was virtually non-existent. I felt unwanted and unattractive and the man I met restored some self-esteem. He was in a similar situation himself and for a while I believed we would form a new relationship, together. I did not want this to be a dishonest and concealed thing and so I eventually moved out of my house. But my lover decided not to break up his marriage. I carried on going to counselling with my husband but felt increasingly rejected by him and he then said he no longer thought there was any point in having further counselling, so he stopped going, in fact just as I thought we were getting to some of the major issues dividing us.
    When my husband decided this I decided to keep seeing my lover even though he was still living with his wife and was keeping me secret from her. To my dismay I then became pregnant and decided not to terminate. I have just given birth to our son, but as soon as he found out I was pregnant, my lover stopped seeing me altogether. So I have now lost both my husband and family, and my lover. I am happy about the baby, as one of the things on which my husband and I were most deeply divided was the fact that I wanted a second child and he didn't. But the thing I can't live with is the terrible, unbearable guilt I feel about hurting my husband. In so many ways he had been my best friend for years and years, and now he will not let me close enough to him to make amends. I have richly deserved this, for all that I was so unhappy because of his coldness and anger towards me and the breakdown of our physical relationship. He now says that he still loves me but does not want to live with me--we are nicer to each other than we have been for years but the existence of this baby puts a barrier between us which we will never overcome. I feel I was to some extent blinded to the shortcomings of my lover by my need for affection and intimacy and it was very stupid to look for such things with someone else instead of trying to sort out the problems in my marriage. After a certain point it was just too late to mend things and I have come to realise the full measure of what I threw away. I feel like just driving off a cliff most days but I have my children to consider. I don't know whether I would have been able to act differently if I had the chance to do it again, but I can't seem to get out of the mess I have made now and feel that I never will.

    Fri 10, Apr 2009 at 8:03pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    May I just say when I took my marriage vows, I meant it from the bottom of my heart and have no intention to cheat or have an affair. I always thought its dishonest and very wrong to cheat on your partner but how am I to know that one day I can be one of them? Never judge anyone because you never know how, one day, you might be in a position where you are judged by others too.
    Affairs can happen to anybody from all walks of life. It happen to those who have no intention to cheat but for some reason they are either pulled or pushed into the situation. Not finding an excuse for anyone having an affair but in my position, I would say I am pulled into it because I got very attracted to William and was falling for him. I have no intention to but how was I to control my emotions/heart?
    I wake up and kept telling myself, "Dont go down that road. Don't do it." Easier to say than done. However I don't dispute the writer above who said he/she felt sorry to whoever is marrried to us. I do feel sorry to my husband but don't think it is 100% my fault. And sometimes I feel like letting my husband go so that I don't cling on to him selfishly when my heart is somewhere else. I got to think carefully before I make that final decision, that is why I am on this website. To talk about it and then to see where it might takes me to or if it helps in any way.

    Tue 14, Apr 2009 at 2:41pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I agree with Emily, it is not that we ever planned to be bad people.  I think that one of the things people who have had affairs have to do is to forgive themselves for what they have done.  I spent a long time hating myself and thinking that I was really bad.  But I was just human and wanting love and satisfaction in the simplest of ways.  I got hurt and said never again, but that is so hard to stick to when somebody walks into your life -once again I cannot overcome the desire to feel fulfilled. 
    Emily, you are so right when you talk about that voice telling you not to do it, but being unable to resist.  Suzzy, how are you coping? Do you still check these posts? I was in a similar situation to you two, many years ago when my children were very young.  In the end I stayed in the marriage and things did get a lot better, but I often felt like a single parent within the family.  My kids are off to uni now and I am yearning for a more fulfilling relationship.  So I would say that you can get through it and even have good times, but ultimately, if it doesn't work... history seems to repeat itself... April.

    Tue 14, Apr 2009 at 8:20pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi, yes I am still checking the posts, its just so hard at the moment I can't seem to find the words.
    We are going to relate but not helping really. Basically I am still in love with P and want him so much. I just cant seem to let go of the marriage yet. Need to feel I am totally sure as a major step but how can I be a good mum if I am sad all the time. P is not an option, he made that clear the night he told his wife then they stormed round here, though for me I still would. Its not fair on my husband either, at all.
    Need a job, then I can feel I can leave knowing that I can support my children and not be such a drag on my husband and society.
    Just want to be happy. Never planned life to go this way, like Emily didn't think I would ever stray.
    April, am I right in thinking you feel you wish you had left when you were in a similiar situation to me?

    Wed 15, Apr 2009 at 3:00pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Well, tricky -there is no right answer to that.  I had/have a wonderful situation with lovely house, ponies, everything I wanted.  And, to be fair, my husband is a lovely man -it is just he was not the right one for me -he is odd and introvert -he is almost parasitic in his ways and never shows affection or romance.  I am very extrovert and love parties etc. and the excitement of romance.  I have had a gay best friend for thelast four years in order to fulfil my needs for nice meals, theatre, days out -we've even been on holiday. My husband is fine with this, but I have begun to realise that it is not the same as having a partner to share things and grow together. 
    The youngest of my children is about to leave home for uni, and I find myself wondering what to do next. I am not sorry that I stayed and gave the children a wonderful childhood -I probably wouldn't have coped alone.  And, let's face it, my lover betrayed me -he was seeing someone else! So, the grass was certainly not greener on the other side for me... 
    I can't say what I think you should do -everyone's situation is so different.  I have a very good friend who was in this situation not so long ago -she hated her husband cos he was so controlling and even hurt her sometimes.  She split a year and a half ago and is now in a new relationship with a man who has children the same age of hers.  She cannot believe how much better her life is now. it is a balance though and as you say you do not have a job you are in a difficult situation.  I suggest that you tackle this first -time to look for a course.  What is your background? I think you should worry less about your relationship -after all, you know P is not an option.  Set a goal for your career and start to head towards it -what do you want to do? I did this, and now I earn more than my husband!! It is great to feel you have indpendence if you need it. And, if not, you will both have more money... win win situation.  April

    Thu 16, Apr 2009 at 8:36pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi April
    I have started to look for a job, phoned for one this morning! Working on my CV and then hopefully I will be able to start moving on. My husband and I talked again last night about a separation and I feel one is on the cards even if only a trial one. Sad but the guilt I have has left me empty to feel anything and unable to give anything to others than my children. I dont love my husband and he knows this.
    End of the road. P has taken everything from me and given me nothing than heartache and betrayal - still cant fathom why he felt the need to tell his wife after all, we were finished but I never will.
    My goal, is to be truely happy by the time I am 40 which gives me just more than 2 years. I need to be so I can be as good a mum as I can, a happy one. Getting a job is important as I had a successful career before children and want this again - though not in same line.
    thanks. I hope you can make a decision that makes you truely happy - we only live once and who wants to look back on their death bed and think - if only..........
    take care,
    PS emily - how are you?

    Fri 17, Apr 2009 at 9:44am
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Dear Suzzy and April
    Firstly, Suzzy, I am so proud of you that you are looking into a job thus some kind of financial independence and a whole new life ahead you. It is definately a case of "moving on". P felt the need to confess to his wife because he knows he is close to being found out therefore he put his hands up before he is caught, as a way of self-defence.  You have been honest with your husband and even close to have a trial separation and in a way I envy and respect your courage. I truly wish you all the best of luck in whatever decision lies ahead you.
    I am so confused not knowing what i want in life anymore. W and I have been in touch lately and last weekend was telling me he loves me and wants to try again with me and to make our relationship work. I don't know how serious he is but mainly it's because I know I am in no position to take up his offer as I am still married. He thought I have separated from my husband! I shouldn't have told him a lie. I am suppose to meet up with him but we had a stupid fall out yesterday, with him being upset with me over my indecision. So we are no longer talking to each other. For the moment. I don't know if its seriously over or we both just go through a cooling off period.
    But I don't like this. It took me a few tears and a little heartbreak to get over him in February and just when I got up and found strength again, I am going through another mini heartbreak over a stupid argument again. The problem with W is he gets upset very easily.
    With my husband, we have been kind and nice with each other. At night when we sleep, we even held on to each other for a moment. Which was quite of sweet. But at the back of my mind, I was kind of distracted with W and all his "i love yous" and I hate that distration.
    April, you are right to say that everyone's situation is different. Some couples are better off separated whereas some can certainly strengthen their marriage through counselling and support. I don't know what category I fall into. I still care for my husband but I felt I have let him down by being carried away with romantic ideas with another man.
    Keep updating with your posts, all. I check this site regularly.

    Fri 17, Apr 2009 at 3:15pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    This is the first website/thread I've found where not everyone tars all people having affairs with the same brush.  I've spent time reading all of this thread at a time when I really needed some comfort.  I'd like to say thank you to Emilysmiles as your wise words have helped me during an upsetting, traumatic time (I'm in a similar situation to you).
    I'd just like to add that I'm living proof that not everyone who has an affair goes looking for one - and as someone said earlier people often stay to try and protect other people despite how ironic that sounds.
    I'm pleased I found this thread and website

    Sat 18, Apr 2009 at 12:13am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    To the above, I am glad you found it -I have to say it has become a comfort to me too and a good place to air some thoughts. 
    I was thinking of late about how bad we feel when we are unfaithful and yet how bad it is when we are betrayed.  One of my awful memories of my lover betraying me was that I had done the same to my husband.  So I felt the hurt and yet caused it just the same.  A double blow.  Suzzy and Emilysmiles, I think this is how it is for you too? Guilt and misery! 
    The other thing that I was thinking is that awful dilemma -as Emilysmiles and perhaps the above find themselves in- where there is someone we love, but we just know that it is too good to be true.  The reallity of such a man coping with our children when the chips are down and real life sets in... not so romantic then -and as they are not his children will he really stay...? [this is one reason why I did not leave my marriage when it happened to me -and look how lucky that turned out to be -he was seeing someone else too!]. 
    I also wonder if you other women out there think that we are being very hormonal?  I know that I long to be with someone else when I am ovulating in particular! I am much more interested in romance and sex at this point of the month, and then once I have ovlated I seem to go back to reality and no longer daydream about what might be...
    The other thing is I did stay with my family and I am very glad now, but now the children are at uni I think of leaving again.  It is perhaps just a case of postponing things, but in fact it is still hard.  Now I would be breaking up their family home and memories.  All the same torment is there just as before.  After so many more years it does not feel easier just the problems are different. 
    Well, there we go - a late night rant beats Desparate Housewives... April 

    Sun 19, Apr 2009 at 9:19pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi all. I too am in the same position. I have been with  D for 14 years and married nearly 7. I started having an affair over 6 months ago.  I didn't go looking for it but I knew I never really loved D. And to be honest I don't feel guilty doing this to him, but i do feel guilty for my 3 kids and my friend as it is her husband I am having an affair with. Myself and K have been friends for 15 years and I've been there when she met W, got married had 2 kids and I never once thought of him that way. But I always thought they weren't suited.Just as myself and D weren't suited.
    Then one night over 6 months ago on one of our visits to their house (we live an hour away) myself and W  sat up having  a few drinks after everyone else was gone to bed and he went to kiss me and I responded .And that was that. He rang me a couple of days later asking could he meet me and I said no that It couldn't happen again, then he just kept texting me telling me how much he wants me and all that sort of stuff. I just craved so much attention from a man that I agreed, so now we are texting each other every day, and he comes to my house when he can during the day while D is at work. My God the sex with him is amazing. He told me after a few weeks that he was in love with me and even though I knew I felt the same way I didnt say anything. But I did say a few weeks later that i couldn't go on with it as i was falling in love with him. Then he goes on about that he loves me too and he is torn over his family and me and it would ruin 2 families if we got together. I know that too, our daughters are the best of friends, but its just driving me crazy. We are still seeing each other, any chance we get. I can't seem to let him go and I wish I could because I know nothings going to come of it. I want him but he will never be mine. Even I dont think I could break up my family to be with him if he wanted to, but at the same time the thought of being with my husband for the rest of my life is a no go. Do I wait until the kids are older where as then I'll be older myself. I just can't seem to think straight any more and I don't know what to do.

    Sun 19, Apr 2009 at 11:03pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    To the above.
    From someone who had an affair recently with my friends husband, I feel I can totally relate to you. We got together last October and yes, the sex was amazing too. But it was the emotional connection that kept us together, but his guilt that drove us apart. You may have read, he told his wife, my friend and to say my world has fallen apart is such an understatement! Lucky it has not become common knowledge in the school playground, but enough people know, and I have to see him or her every day which hurts so bad.
    P did not fall in love with me, but I am completely in love with him - still. He did have strong feelings for me which he has told his wife of.  Your W has which does make a difference, but I would say take care. The loss of my friendship with her is devastating, though if he had been prepared to leave her for me, I would have then and now, go with him. That is why my marriage is failing fast and we are moving towards a separation. Not how I saw mylife going, but how can I stay when I love someoneelse. This is for me and not for P who made me feel more alive than I ever thought possible and then killed me when he finished it, and finally stabbed me (not literately) when he betrayed me by telling his wife. I feel numb.
    I can't be someone who says leave for you and not for him as I know its not what I would have done, only take care - you do only get one life and some times a risk is worth taking. Please Please let me know how you get on. I truely hope yours has a happy ending.

    Mon 20, Apr 2009 at 7:51am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Suzzy, Thank you for your comments. I have read your posts and I really feel for you. I really couldn't image being in your position and having to see him everyday. It must hurt you so much. I only see W with his wife every month or so and even that hurts. So the time we do have together when he calls is so special because it is just the two of us and we can block out everyone and everthing else out.
    God he is constantly on my mind and i keep saying to myself I should finish it and I have done twice but he'd call me saying he misses me and wants to see me and I fall right back into his arms. And I wonder where is it all heading to, are we just going to keep going on with this until we get caught.
    Suzzy, I am thinking of you and hope you can get over this. Them holding hands at the school is all a show. Definetly rubbing it in. But how long will that go on. Take care,

    Mon 20, Apr 2009 at 8:35am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi again M
    I think in a way, yes we do keep going for as long as possible, but as you will see getting caught is shit. (sorry) The last week of term, they did not appear together and I do understand from another friend that things are definately not rosy there. Cant be can it, i mean as my relate counseller said last week, she (his wife) has had a double betrayal. Trouble is I love him - wish didn't and you would think with the way he has treated me, I should hate him - but no daft old me, still hoping... Even had my tarot cards read which is not something had done before. That only left me hoping more, as she was so perceptive even though I gave little away. Obviously as conversations go, I did need to reveal/confirm details but she was very good. BUT cant live waiting now. My husband is planning on moving out next week, on a trial basis and then we will see. Regardless of P, need to love my husband or its the end. Just wish I knew what to do.
    You take care too - write soon.

    Mon 20, Apr 2009 at 12:06pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Both, [Suzzy and the one above]
    My advice at the moment is to bide your time for a bit.  Let things run for a while.  I think having a break for a while is good if you can eg for Suzzy over the summer holidays and see if you get over P abit if you don't see him for a while.  Also, Suzzy, if your husband does move out then you are going to be able to see new poeple. 
    There is nothing like a new love to cure the feelings for the old one -indeed, that is why we go off our husbands, partly at least, when we have a new man/affair.  You just can't love two at the same time in that way -an obsessional way. Which makes me think -this kind of love affair becomes an obsession doesn't it?  As I said much earlier, it is a type of addiction.  MAybe others would say it is crazy to replace one addiction with another -perhaps just a temporary cure, but if there really is no future in P.  I did exactly as you did -years ago- and started going to clairvoyants.  But at the end of the day we make our own future -you maybe want them to tell you that it will all be ok and he will come to you.  I really do think that you need to be distracted from him. 
    As to the one above Suzzy, as Suzzy has said, don't rush into things.  At the moment you are still in that heady stage of romance and it is all a bit unreal.  Would he go for a bit of time apart to cool off and gather senses -like Emily has done with W?  After all, if it is to be, then a bit of a breathing space should not be a problem.  I would question why he cannot allow you some time.  If I have learnt one thing is that nobody can really be trusted -look at all of us -nice people doing this! So you have to have time to trust that how he is, who he is, what he wants is really genuine. 

    Tue 21, Apr 2009 at 8:52pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi April,
    Just been to relate with my husband, never sure whether they help at all. She did agree that a split for a while will focus our feelings though pretty sure of mine.
    Yes I could see people if the split was just that, but at the mo it is more like a trial separation and I dont think yet is the time. I dont really know if things are definately over between me and P. For now, yes he has chosen his family but who knows. Probably not but I still live in hope at the mo.
    To meet someone who was free and wanted me, would be great though!
    Emily, how are you? are you still in contact with W? how are you feeling?

    Wed 22, Apr 2009 at 11:41am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Suzzy,
    Yes, that sounds very level headed of you in terms of someone new -I just mean find a distraction I guess.  I know that you still hope for P and as you say, this could yet happen.  In a way, what you are doing is giving him some time and this is a good thing.  They may well not get over the trauma and in that case no doubt he will come to you.   -You will have to work on forgiving him then... April

    Wed 22, Apr 2009 at 8:21pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Having a bad day. Not that I have seen or heard from him, just the usual. Finding it so hard to believe it is more than likely over. The pain inside is still really awful. Just want to talk to him, but cant. Keep hoping his marriage will not work oout (horrible but true) but I know they are trying.
    On days like this, feel my life is at an end. What is the point, P does not want me so no point....

    Fri 24, Apr 2009 at 3:10pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi all,
    Sorry for not logging in for a while. I was trying to get myself distracted by not going near the internet as I might be tempted to check out William's social page/website etc., so I had been keeping myself busy with other things.
    William and I stopped contact for nearly 2 months but then he contacted me again out of the blue saying he wanted to see me again and asked me how is my "position" with my marriage, which I then lied that I have been to the solicitor to sign some papers. I didn't have the heart to tell him that in that gap, I was working on my marriage and it was starting to go "quite well" until he got in touch and distracted me again.
    Upon hearing that I have been to solicitor, he got encouraged and started asking me out. He even told me he loves me, wanted to spend some time with me and hope to make it a proper, full-time relationship. I was then in dilemma because the truth is, I am still a married woman. I then came up with all sorts of excuses on why I couldn't go and be with him in the evening (I still have my husband!) and then he soon realised that I was stringing him along. He then told me if I can't have a full-time relationship with him then he won't have any less than that. He said he will only see me again if I can give him more of my time (which I can't as a married woman).
    So we have stop contact again. He realised I am not in a position to have a relationship with him (might suspect that I am still married and all my signing-paper with solicitor shit is just complete lie). I don't know why I couldn't leave my marriage.
    I am afraid to make a decision because I am too scared to leave my security blanket and comfort to venture into the unknown world of insecurities. My marriage might be dull and I know boredom is not the right reason to leave my husband. I just don't know what to do.
    I realise that I am losing William now. For good. He has given us two months to "think things through" and then he came back asking me how is the position and he now realises its still the same. And now he is walking away from me. I feel sorry for myself, not sure if I am stupid to let go such an opportunity to feel "love" again. 
    April, I am not sure if leaving my marriage when kids go to uni is a good thing as I would then be in my late 40s-early 50s. If I were to start a new life, why not do it now in my early 30s? I would have wasted another 15 years of my life then to throw it all away when kids are a bit older. Yet, a lot of people stayed for the sake of the kids first and then later they can go if they really want to to finally seek a bit of their own life/happiness. Sometimes I look at my husband and wonder if I really want to spend the rest of my life with this man. I have no answer.
    Suzzy, you are such a brave girl to go through separation. As April said, a new life ahead you means you have the opportunity to meet a new man/love. I envy you for that opportunity you soon have. At least you are not trapped anymore. Although I sympathise that you still love P but I believe as time moves on and you will meet another available man.
    Write again, all.

    Fri 24, Apr 2009 at 6:07pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Al,
    I agree with you Emily, Suzzy is brave and at the start f something that seems daunting, but could be where you truly find yourself.  I sometimes think that I am pathetic because since the age of 14 I have never been single -not for a day!  I am in mid 40s now... 
    Emily, sorry you are in such a pickle with W. I guess from his perspective he doesn't want to be tagged along -and you want to keep your options open.  I don't suggest that anyone carries on in an unhappy situation until kids at uni -it is just that as you point out about you situation -this marriage is safe and you know the bottom line.  On your own, with the kids, it could be tough.  No one can blame you for tht. When I look back I could just nothave coped. 
    I have been too scared to admit what my situation is -I don't want to be found out, but also saying it here is like making it real.  But it is real that I am seeing a married man -he has done the running, and have over the last few weeks fallen for him.  And, I would say him for me given what he says [although as I say I have trouble with trust given my history] -including my own ability to be unfaithful.  I have had people chase me beofre and always said no since my last experience, but this is different... 
    Anyway, enough of me.  Suzzy, keep ging you are so strong and doing so well.  Emily, ou need to let W now the truth and explain as you have on here why you have trouble in making such a move -he will have no idea what taking you on with kids would mean! [I presume anyway]
    Thanks for this thread Emily -I think it is nearly 200 posts now which shows that you have struck a real chord that so many of us go through.  I think that you show we really struggle with all of this too -it is not just like the 'Mistresses' drama -and others, where they are over it in a few days.  This affects us in every way and, in my experience, changes who we are and how we view things.  I think the one thing that we need to watch out for is that this site fulfils a need in us because in a way when we talk about our lovers we are one step nearer them in a life where you cannot be with them just whenever we want.  As mine said tonight as he was near where I live, we are so close yet so far.  Being on here make me, at least, feel a bit closer to him right now.  Ane I guess as Emily said -she hadn't been onhere as trying to avoid it to avoid w in an indirect way,
    luv April

    Fri 24, Apr 2009 at 7:42pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi all,
    Not sure I am really all that strong or brave. He moves out tomorrow and I feel a mess. Is that because I dont want him to or nerves as to what it all means? We have been together for 17 years, married for 13 but there has always, for me, been something missing. I dont want to reach 40 and still feel like this! (couple of years to go mind!!) Dreamt about me and P getting back together last night which did not help.
    You are right April, that programme - which I could so identifiy with especially the doctor one(forgotten name) as she slept with Jack her boyfriends best mate. But if only life was that simple to get over things.
    I am so so scared of the future.
    Emily, hows things. I really do think you need to have a long think. I worry you are settling for second best with your husband. You do only get one life. Could you not sit down with W and talk it all out, truthfully. He may surprise you after all he did come back to you. If my P came back I would definity be with him. some risks need to be taken.
    Oh god I feel sick....

    Sat 25, Apr 2009 at 7:46am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Me again. This site and thread is of so much support. Just wish I could contact you both privately as I am sure as April as mentioned, it is hard playing it out in front of a crowd as such, but hey thats life I guess.
    Just re-read your note Emily and you said that some people stay for the kids. I have mulled this one over and in fact my relate counsellor said this is not a good thing. If you are unhappy then this will rub off onto your children. I am sure I acould not be with my husband for another 17 or more years and although he is a really good man, great dad, he just does not do it for me. BUT the change is terrifiying.
    I think I need a tardis to transport me to 6 months down the line!!!!
    Write soon.

    Sat 25, Apr 2009 at 8:25am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Suzzy -wow, you must have spent your first night alone then? Are you feeling ok.  Time goes so quickly, 6 months will soon rush by.  Hope all is well?

    Sun 26, Apr 2009 at 11:37am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    hi all, Suzzy, you are so brave but be strong. I wish I had your courage, I too can't see myself with D for the rest of my life. We are just not compatible and to me its only the kids that I am stayiing with him.
    W was around during the week. When he does call he usually comes around 10 and leaves at 2, but when he called the other day he said he had to go early (12), he didn't even have time for a coffee and i just felt so hurt and he knew it and said i was making him feel guilty. But I can't help the way I feel and just want to spend as much time as I can with him. God sometimes i wish I never got myself into this position. The hurt I feel, the jealousy I feel. I want him so much but I don't want to hurt my family.
    I know he wants me too, but the same delema. He is always texting me asking what am I doing right now. His texts are mindblowing Oh my God, he could write a book. I just think there are more bad times than good times with him. God, I love OUR time but the rest of the time I'm just wishing I was with him and I hate that feeling. Hey have you heard that song STAY by SUGARLAND. It's real good, and so true. You'll get it on UTUBE.....

    Sun 26, Apr 2009 at 10:14pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    sorry forgot to say who I was there, That was me M

    Sun 26, Apr 2009 at 10:18pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi you two! Well had a bad day, but not to do with me husband leaving, on another issue which I will not go into.
    Not sure how I feel, give me a few more days.
    Em, I'll look up that song tomorrow. Have you asked W if he is willing to take on you all?

    Sun 26, Apr 2009 at 10:54pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Well, in a way that sums up real life -it just goes on good and bad.  Now that you are as good as single -for now- you have to face those bumps.  That is one of the reasons why so many of us don't do it -we are afraid of those bumps.  You are doing it Suzzy -and that is brave.  There is a book called Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway -it might help.  There is another called Why Good People HAve Affairs -corry can't remember the authors but if you google it will find them.  Keep going Suzzy!
     x April

    Mon 27, Apr 2009 at 8:03pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    It feels so weird. Spoken to my husband each day as he phones to speak to the children. Not sure if I miss him or the company. The recent events have at least cleared my mind with regards to P. I have no feelings for him at all. what he has done has been totally out of order and ..... quite angry.
    My issue now is whether I want my husband back or not, and what he wants. It is strange, he has been away before on business but obviously this is different. To be honest it just feels like that at the mo, he away on business so only time will tell how I really feel. I dont feel married or single - odd really.
    Not told many people about the situation and certainly dont want P and his wife finding out yet - she may well gloat though sure things are far from rosy in her marriage.
    April, how are you doing? what is happening with you and your MM. Please dont be afraid as we are all in the same boat, or at least have been. How long have you been seeing him? Serious? Talk to me.
    Em, you are going through it all again honey and I feel for you big time. Hows contact going with w - talk to us.

    Tue 28, Apr 2009 at 4:40pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hello all,
    Its me Emily. Suzzy, the writer above M is another person (i thought you confused her with me, her love is also called W)? Suzzy, I also wish we can contact each other privately, I tried to leave my email add here but was deleted by the Teamtalk.
    Anyway, i've lost a lot of interest in William. Mainly because i felt this relationship is going nowhere. I can't give up my family, its too good to give up and too big decision for me to handle. Also, it has to take something as secure as a marriage proposal from William to get me to give up my family. That is because I am not going to do it for what could be a "short term relationship". At this mo, I can't tell the future with him, there are too many insecurities and uncertainties. For this reason, I think its pointless, wasting my time and my obsession for him only means I am distracted from my kids/family life.
    Two days ago, he texted me asking how are things with my family life and i replied OK, still more or less the same. Upon hearing nothing changed on my end, I think he loses interest again. Had he been more persistent or perhaps declare his love a bit more for me (in order to give me more security and promise), he might stand a chance with me. But he seems easily discouraged and then he would go silent on me again. Which is fine by me. 
    There are too many doubts between us. Besides, my marriage has been quite a good one (although not very exciting but then its been 10 years). I still think of William now and again but i am starting to think he is "history" now, so am I to him. I have too many doubts with him, so has he with me. A relationship sounds quite impossible. Mainly because I am still in a marriage, which I seem quite reluctant to let go. I don't know why.
    Suzzy, how are things? You said you realised your feelings for P have gone? Are you sure? Some days we feel a lot stronger but other times, something might trigger it again. Do you find things with your husband improved now that he moves out?
    M, thanks for recommending Stay by Sugarland, Im listening to it. How about Better in Time by Leona Lewis?
    Keep writing.

    Thu 30, Apr 2009 at 2:25pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi emily,
    Yes, my feelings have gone. I feel so used by him, and dont believe a single thing he said anymore. I feel sick when I think of him and the things we did. i truely believe he is an arsehole and cant believe what I have risked. Ok my marriage is not very exciting but at least he loved me for me.
    I dont know if I can repair things or if I can feel love again but as far as P is concerned, he can sod off... end of rant.

    Thu 30, Apr 2009 at 3:39pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    This comment has been deleted by a member of the TIOT as it was personally abusive and contravened para 3.1.6 of the Terms and Conditions of use of the site.

    Fri 1, May 2009 at 11:32am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I have found this thread incredibly helpful and a real comfort.
    Thanks for your honesty Emily. 
    Please give us an update and don't keep your conversation with Suzzy too private, although it's good you support eachother we want to know how you're doing!

    Fri 1, May 2009 at 12:27pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Also Emily I just want to say (that's me above, my initials are AKS) that you could be me.
    Everything you describe emotionally and how you're dealing with things could be me too, it's uncanny and I feel quite strengthened by reading it.
    My concern is that you might feel isolated and a failure if you get back with William because of all your posts about determination and resolve and moving on.
    Please don't be hard on yourself. You didn't choose to be in this position (although there was obviously some free will involved) - sometimes you are just swept along on a wave and you can't get off no matter how hard you try.
    And it's so flattering that he wants you, after all that's what hooked you in the first place isn't it? being wanted by someone as attractive as him. 
    I have every sympathy and know only too well what you're facing, for me it's very fresh facing the fact that my lover can't handle being with me, he can't handle the emotions and the messiness and the intensity.  I love him so much and I would sacrifice everything to be with him (I have children - I'm sorry it sounds so heartless but that's how deep I'm in this) even though I know he's not even half the man my husband is.  He is just the other half of me.  Like yin and yang.  And not even culturally or socially (we are very different) - it's a soul thing.  He's my soul mate.
    The pain of memories is so intense, we have so many happy memories in such a short space of time. So much joy together, so much potential and so much promise.  But he couldn't do it, he couldn't take the pain, the uncertainty, the fear of trusting someone.  He has a string of failed relationships and I guess that means he has no template to work from?  I don't know, it's so complicated and I have no idea if he's been honest with me about how he feels or whether he's tried to be kind and is protecting me.  But I saw him this week and whilst I knew it was over between us I could see nothing but love in his eyes for me.
    This is the most painful thing I've ever had to deal with in my life - it's so acute it takes my breath away.

    Fri 1, May 2009 at 12:39pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Sorry me again - the other thing he threw at me is that he (Matt) believes in fate.  To me that seems lazy, what will be will be, take it as it comes...
    My mind-set is that anything worthwhile needs to be worked at, fought for.  You make your own fate don't you, up to a point?  It hurts me so much that he's just sitting back and giving up.  He says I'm the right person, wrong time - how can he just walk away from the right person?  I want to accuse him of being a coward.  But he's not, he's a real man's man and I love that about him.  He has so much happening in his life, his relationship has just broken up (not because of me, he says) and he needs to prove to himself that he can survive as a single man and not self-destruct as is his tendency.
    It could be he can't handle the fact that I have been married a long time and have a huge history with my family.  I don't know.  I am reluctant to be owned by another man but I would give myself to him without hesitation if I felt he was committed to me.  And he could only do that if he truly loved me.
    Maybe that's what it all boils down to and that's what I have to accept and face up to.  He just doesn't love me enough.
    It's difficult though because I am now in a limbo with my husband (P).  Without Matt in my life I feel aimless and so sad.  I need a friend and my husband has always been the person I turn to in times of trouble. He is a rock, he's dependable and he adores me.  He doesn't know about Matt specifically but he knows enough to know that our marriage is in crisis, maybe terminal.
    So I've given P some time to prove himself to me, to prove that he wants me and that he's prepared to put me first once again in his life.  I'm committing myself to nothing as I want to see what happens, and I've moved out of the family residence.  But if P comes through and wins me back then that's a wonderful outcome.  Whether I have the will to put in the required effort to be everything I should be as a wife for him is another matter, and something I have to face.  When I think of making an effort with P all I think about is that it would be so easy with Matt, so natural and effortless. 
    The main thing I am facing now is how on earth do I survive each and every day without him? I want to be with him so much.  We had this secret liaison for months, and now suddenly we're both living alone and we are not together!  It's such a waste and so sad it's unbearable.  The pain is like a knife constantly in my tummy, I have such a physical yearning for him, for his arms around me and... well everything.
    But I have to leave him alone, let him wrestle with his thoughts and feelings and recover from his break-up.  And I have to adjust to my new life, subject myself to P's attentions and try to be positive about my future without him, whether or not I reconcile with P.
    I don't regret the happiness we shared even though having an affair is clearly very harmful for the 2 people concerned regardless of whether they are found out and exposed.
    If it can be avoided then it should be, that's my advice.  Shame I can't turn back time.

    Fri 1, May 2009 at 1:40pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    i hope it is ok as a guy to post here, but I have just read through most of these posts, and i must admit, it is so refreshing to see that others are in my same situation. I have been married now for 12 years, 2 kids. The past 3-4 years have been very non-emotional, just going through the motions, no affection, being short with each ither, etc. a little over a year ago, I kissed a woman I worked with, after a couple years of being friends and flirting, and since then, have been having an affair. It was amazing at first, and just crazy youthful fun. The past 6 months have been a little more rocky as we have determined that we love each other, but things are complicated with me being married and having kids. She is 11 years younger and single. I can honestly say I do love her, but I think she has a lot of guilt with getting involved with a married man, and does not want to be the reason i get a divorce, etc. At the beginning of April, I told her I loved her, and wanted to be with her, and did not want live this double life anymore. She looked me in the eye and told me she loved me for the first time, but then said it was all too much, and needed some time to think about it.
    So, we have not spoken in almost a month now, and I am freaking out. I still love her, and have talked with my wife about getting a divorce.. I mean, we have not even kissed in like 3 years... and my heart wants to be able to have a clear path when I hear from the other woman.. but my fear is that if I commit to getting a divorce, and then I see the woman again, and even though a month ago she said she loves me... what if she cant get past the guilt of breaking up a marriage and she cant be with me? THen I will have nothing.. and I will have robbed my boys of seeing their dad every day... She said she needed to get through April, and that she HAD to see me again... i am just torn because I know my marriage is basically over, but my wife really wants to try... so do I risk ending my marriage just for a chance to make it work with the other woman? Right now today, I think my answer is yes to that question. I feel like I love her that much, even after not having any contact with her for almost a month now.
    Yesterday though, I had decided that i owed it to my boys to do everything I could to make it work with their mom, since she wanted to try, where in the past, she showed no real interest. My point is I am flip flopping on this daily, sometimes hourly. I know I love this other woman, and that I dont love my wife, but what if the other woman has decided this is just too much? adn she cant deal with it? This not knowing is really really difficult. I cant sleep, or eat, feel sick sometimes, cry in the car on the way home.... it is crazy.
    Guess it is good to know I am not the only one who is experiencing these emotions, and is caught in this turmoil. I just wish I knew how this woman was feeling. And then I think, well, I know I dont love my wife, and if I give up on that for a chance with the other woman, and she said no, could I live with that? Again, today I think I would be ok with taking that risk for love.. because not taking it would make me regret... and I have had enough regret in my life. I have always played it safe, and I want to take a risk... just cant decide if this is the one to take. I am tallking in circles now, but this is how my life has been for the past few months, the last one in particular.

    Fri 1, May 2009 at 5:45pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All,
    To the above - I know just what you mean about the flip-flop from one emotion to the other.  I do that all the time!  IT is all so difficult -the trouble is we are sensible enough to know that this new thing might one day turn bad -and look at what we are losing. 
    Emily and Suzzy -I think that you have both been moving in the same directin in terms of losing the perfect image of the affair guy.  Suzzy -I am pleased fr you that you can see P is an arse - it often takes so much longer!  I think once you learn how to dislike them it is better.  I eventually became repolsed about what I did and used to have real hatred for the one who betryed me. 
    As to my situation at the moment. I just don't know -you live and learn and I have to let some water go under the bridge.  I think like Emily said -I would neeed a real firm offer of security.  I guess most would say we should try being on our own first but this is the whole point -for some of us what we have is too good to give up without a better option. 
    Suzzy, I do hope that you are ok and as I say it is so good that you are feeling this way over P cos he really has not been kind to you,

    Fri 1, May 2009 at 8:26pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    firstly, welcome to the guy above April. All of us who write here are in the same boat it seems and all i guess we want is to be happy. Trouble is, is that it is never that simple.
    My emotions are up and down all the time, and  though I have now seen P in a different light, I am not sure how I would react if he wanted me back - though 99% sure this will not happen.
    Trying to see what I have in my life and whether it is enough, for now anyhow while the children are young. My husband and I are talking and , well maybe. We have a relate session again next week so maybe something will happen then. Just wish life was ..... I dont know.
    Emily, hope you are okay and April, I agree with you completely and think that is why decisions are so hard. It maybe why I am considering getting back with my husband, better someone than no-one. Not really an answer but life is about compromise sometimes and without P being there for me, I am not sure I want this life alone.

    Sat 2, May 2009 at 8:30am
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi all, its me Emily. Can I suggest two things? Firstly, please put your initials after you post something so that I can refer back or reply to whoever in particular without getting into confusion (since this post is growing to over 200 posts). Secondly, if this page/post crashed (due to its grown list), I will quickly start a new one "Having an affair but cant leave marriage Part TWO" so that you can search for me again. Thanks.
    I am pleased for a man to post on this site because it really helps to know men do have feelings too. Also, this site is open to anyone who wishes to share their feelings. We help each other by talking and sharing out feelings. So to the man above, thanks for writing in. Quite a few here sympathise with your feelings and we can relate to it.
    I question myself in all honesty what is it about William that attracted me and my answer, to start with, has a lot to do with physical/sexual attraction. There was a lot of chemistry. I have dated many guys in the past (before marriage) and W is the one that tick my every boxes. He would have been "my dream guy" in every way. I love the way he looks, the way he dresses to the shoes he wear, to the way he talks, walks, stands and just everything about him puts a smile on my face. It's just a shame I can't be with him (as AKS said "meeting someone at the wrong time").
    To the Man above, you seem quite clear that you don't want to continue with your marriage. If that is the case, what is stopping you? Are you seeking for some assurance from this girl that she is going to be there for you when you eventually leave your wife? She sounds like a sensible girl not wanting to be involved with a married man (sounds a bit like William. He told me he wants nothing to do with me until I am 100% single as he felt responsible for my marriage break up). In my case, I can't leave my good marriage. If W proposes with an engagement ring as a security, I might seriously consider it. But he won't do that unless I leave my husband first. But I can't leave my husband until he proposes first. It's going round in circle. Basically, I can't leave my marriage for nothing. It will have to take something very serious and permanent otherwise i would be a fool to give up a good marriage.
    Since W doesn't want to propose until I have sign divorce paper and since I am reluctant to sign divorce paper unless he proposes (still, i am not sure if I really will leave my husband, I am not 100%), it looks like my affair with W is pointless and a waste of each other's time. W has sensed that and he is really staying away from me lately. I don't blame him. It's quite sad but I can't do anything about it so I have to let it go.
    The big question - do I really want to leave my husband if William proposes? I am surprised to say I don't know. Maybe my feelings have calmed down towards William. It definately has.  A few months ago, I probably say YES, I would go with William if he proposes. Now, I have to say I don't even know if that's really what I want. Now I feel proud and contented just being with my beautiful family. I hope my feelings don't change again IF W gets in touch again (and start telling me he misses me), W does distract me and confuses me whenever he gets in touch.
    AKS, sounds like the guy needs a bit of time to think things through. How long have you moved out on your own? How old are your kids? Are they in their teens?
    April, how are things on your end?
    Suzzy, am I sensing that living apart from your husband actually makes you think a bit more of your marriage? Do you find the Relate sessions help? I am not sure if P will come back to you but I take it he hasn't been in touch or given you any positive signs? I am also sensing a lot of anger here towards him for the pain he caused and what seemed to be sweet and passionate now seems cold and distant. You have to think of it this way - you haven't lose it all. You still got your beautiful children and your husband is still right behind you, if you want to go back.
    Keep writing.

    Sat 2, May 2009 at 3:38pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi all. Well big news! My husband and I have had a long talk and he is back home. I know it was only a week but I think until the recent event, I was still holding a torch for P too much. Now I know what I have with him is not totally what I want but I thought about the things April mentioned about giving things up - and being hard to do so. I do have a lovely house and the children are very happy here. If I can give them a happy childhood by putting my needs aside, then maybe this is best. Unlike you, Emily, I dont have P and very very unlikely to and I dont think I want to go it alone. I would have gone with him, no doubt and yes, this may have been a mistake but I will never know. All I know is that here and now, being with my husband is better than on my own. Cowards choice maybe. All the signs for P are completely negative, so end of.
    Still looking for a job and running. Perhaps in time I will find the strength to do what I really want to, but not now. Sorry - not so brave after all am I. Why are we women so needy!?  I do worry that if I dont sort things out though, I could be tempted again by someone else, as it is another (why now? never this popular when I was young and single!) guy has been giving me the come on and has made no bones about what he wants - not interested dont need the hassle, but its like bloody buses!!!!!
    Emily, you really need to think things out. If you, like me wait til the children are a bit older, we will still be young enough to start again, as we areonly in our thirties now BUT having been there, you really must try your damnest to work out who you want or it will break you and you'll end up a shell of your forma self. A good friend of mine was so worried I was so into P but not getting anywhere and now I can see I was so blinkered and fixated on him I ate, slept and drank P. I dont mean to be hard but Ive been there.
    If it is William, then go and be happy. If you are happy then your children  will be too. As for Relate, no I dont think it has helped, however we talked anyhow about the whole thing and so if you and your husband do not talk about the issues then it probably would. For us it simply raked up old ground and my husband does not want to go again.
    April - talk to us
    AKS - any progress? We are here if you need us.

    Sun 3, May 2009 at 2:59pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi everyone, thanks for your concern.
    Yes 2 of my children are with partners and have left home, I have one child at home but she's leaving soon to go to university.  I could not put myself before small children - I don't think!!! if this past few months has taught me anything it's that I can't trust my previous beliefs!!!
    I only moved out of home a week ago.  This weekend I am back at home with P and my daughter.  She is happy to have me around but P has carried on with his work commitments as usual - he did take me out for a meal on Friday night but I was so bored to be honest.
    I do need you! I have nobody to talk to about what I'm going through.  I loved Matt, I love him still.  He's so confused and mixed up but I just want to put my arms around him and hold him and make it all go away.
    I can't believe he doesn't still love me. I just can't believe it, I truly believe that he meant what he said. But it's possible he's not as honest and open as I thought he was I guess. 
    I've met a wonderful friend who's a lot lot younger than me, a guy - but he's so wise.  He said that we were trying to anchor one another in our difficult circumstances and we just ended up dragging eachother across the ocean floor.  We are certainly both battered and bruised.  I hope I continue to feel more and more ambivalent towards him like you, Emily.  I want to see him realistically, as someone who can never make me happy.  Because even if he wanted to I don't think he has the capacity, he's too damaged from his previous failed relationships.
    I haven't contacted him since last Wednesday so that's progress.  I called him and asked him if we could meet to discuss a couple of things as a means to helping me to let go.  So he agreed we could meet on Saturday.  However, on Friday night he phoned me to ask me if Friday night would be better - either he wanted to see me sooner (that's what I'd hoped, foolishly) or he wanted Saturday clear for other plans.  Anyway I said no it had to be Saturday and he agreed.  Then when I got home I texted him and said actually can we make it monday or tuesday next week - it felt so good to put him off!!!  like I was taking back a little bit of control in a situation which is totally out of my control. 
    Anyway part of me wants to just not bother to see him at all, there's no point listening to his confusion and muddle because if he doesn't know what he feels what hope do I have of making any sense of anything?
    What do you think?  I reckon if I don't call him to arrange it he won't contact me, so shall I just leave it?
    Thanks so much for persevering with me and reading this, it's my lifeline at the moment....

    Sun 3, May 2009 at 5:16pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Dear AKS
    I think you need to give your selfs some time. Time to work out how you feel towards Matt and how he feels about you. I feel you have nothing left to give your p, but correct me if I am wrong. I would let him contact you and then take it from there. Dont get to worked up (i know much easier to say!) and try to find a distraction in case he does not call - do you have any girlfriends you could talk to or arrange to meet.
    Love is so bloody complex but you are at a point in your life when you CAN put yourself first. You must. If you and Matt can just have some fun without any stressing - do you love me or not - then perhaps you will work it all out.
    This site is my life line and next week may be really crap and I know there are more people knowing in the playground and that I will find hard to bare. Just want to get on with my life!
    Good luck and write soon.

    Sun 3, May 2009 at 6:22pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All, [from April]
    Emily -you are so clever thinking of a contingency plan for if the site crashes! 
    Suzzy, wow -you are back together and it sounds like you feel ok about that for now, which is good.  I was thinking about what you said about men being interested now rather than earlier in your life.  I have found this too -barely a week goes by when I don't have a suggestion of an offer... and like you most times I am totally not interested.  The thing is, I reckon that it is because, firsty, we do get more attractive on the whole in terms of knowing ourselves, confidence and growing itno our looks i(f we look after ourselves). Secondly, I think it is BECAUSE we are taken, ie married, that other men find us attractive -they don't realise we might want more than sex and fun in the first instance beacause I think that is how they often think.  I think they look at single women and think she is going to want to get married and settle down.  Not all of them, of course, but I am pretty sure that is why I get offers -that I can refuse! 
    I do find it so difficult to talk about my current situation -when I first posted on here in March I didn't realise that I was going to fall so badly in love as I am now.  But, typically, it is complicated.  My kids are grown up -well just at uni and I am able to be financially independent BUT he has much younger children and doesn't wnat to hurt them even though he is desperately unhappy with his wife. So, it isn't even my decision this time around (if you remember years ago I had an affair but never left my husband and was very glad that I didn't).
    I don't think that I could carry on for very long if it is not going to come to something this time.  It isn't fair on our partners and it is, as Emily pointed out a few weeks ago, very tiring!  I am exhausted from trying to fit so much in and find time to see him, and from the emotion strain of feeling guilt, fear of being found out, and not knowindg what the future holds all of a sudden. 
    To AKS, I think you should be wary and try to maintain this control.  I have got some new thoughts on 'soul mates' these days -very often I thin that my gay best friend is my soul mate or some of my girl friends.  I want more than this in a partner/husband I want strength, love, giving, dependence, respect, attraction, shared and independant interests, trust, and a long and loving future... not much to ask -ha! but the point is I don't get these things from the soul-mate.

    Sun 3, May 2009 at 10:21pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Thanks Suzzy - I will try to distract myself and not sit by the phone constantly - but it's so tempting to try and cut myself off from him emotionally and not allow myself to have any hope that time will bring us back together.
    Who am I kidding? I probably won't be able to cut myself off anyway - once again I'm wishing I could control my feelings!
    April - I will try and maintain control, it's a big thing for me.  I still haven't given in and contacted him.  I just want to get through tomorrow and then he will know that I have changed, that I am not at his beck and call anymore. 
    Your comments about soul-mates have really interested me, I will think about this and chat about it to my friends.  Perhaps soul mates don't make very good life partners? In some ways that makes sense.
    Thank you all once again, so much - I wish I had some words of wisdom to help some of you but I feel so weak and so pathetic right now.

    Mon 4, May 2009 at 3:30pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi all,
    Its taken a while for me to get the courage up to post again but I just thought id let you all know about my situation.  I ended up miscarrying my baby.  So the choice was taken out of my hands, was only 6 weeks at the time but am still trying to get over it.  My affair guy (A) said that i should leave my fiance and do it for the memory of our angel baby.  he also gave me an ultimatum that if he wasnt out by the monday two weeks ago then he would have nothing more to do with me.  he said if i made him leave then we have a shot at making us work.  So i did it.  I made him leave.  That was two weeks ago and nothing has changed.  All the things (A) said to me have turned out so far to have been lies.  I have seen him once since my ex fiance moved out and heard from him much less than i did when my ex was living with me.  I am in counselling for help with everything that has gone on with my life recently.  But i feel so betrayed by (A) he says he is under too much pressure with work to deal with me and has no time.  Yet the one time i did see him he was loving and telling me he missed me.  But then the next minute he is saying he meeds space.  I am so upset and have no idea what to do or think.  My ex is trying so hard as he is round seeing our son everyday and he is telling me he will go to counselling about his behaviour and will do anything i want yet he does not know that at the moment he could give me the world and it wouldnt be enough while i have (A) on my mind.  My head is telling me one thing and my heart another.  I feel so used by (A) that everything he ever told me was a lie.  That he wanted what he couldnt have and now he has me he doesnt want me.  He doesnt seem to realise what i have given up for him.  I just love him so much and dont know what to do anymore.  Everything is so messed up.
    Kat :-( x

    Mon 4, May 2009 at 6:15pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Kat,
    Hard though it may sound I think you need to ditch the affair [A] he sounds like bad news -just as you needed support he goes??  It is so asful and you must feel terrible, but he is not sounding like a good option.  Bail now, grieve for what has gone, and your lost baby, but move on from him,
    April x

    Mon 4, May 2009 at 6:45pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hello again from the lone guy... it has been one of the craziest weekends of my life. On Friday, I decided I had to see the girl before the weekend was over. So, I called her in Saturday to break the silence.. I had to, it was killing me... And we agreed to meet on Sunday at her new place. She is younger than me, not sure if I mentioned that before. She is 27, and I am 38. ANyway, she just moved to a new place, new suburb, and is excited about starting a new life.. her old place she shared with her ex boyfriend, and that ended badly, and the last month or two, we had just started seeing each other, so then the guilt set in with her as well... about cheating on him, and I was cheating, so we both were guilty, and at first, it was just pure lust.
    So, on Friday, I had decided that I could not go another moment without telling her that I loved her, that I wanted to be with her, that there is no way we can not be together... and I believe that, I truly do. Sunday we meet, both are tired as we had each gone out the night before, separately, but either way, were tired. i tell her how happy I am to see her, that I have missed her, brought her a couple flowers, nothing exravagant, just simple, pure. She showed me around her new place, and then we went to get something to eat. At lunch, she asked how it was going, what I had been up to, so I said.. well, my marriage is over, I am going to be moving into my mom's place for a while as we sort things out.. but I have not yet, that I have been sleeping on the couch for a while just for the kids sake at the moment. Though, they dont know I am sleeping on the couch. I think she was surprised a little bit, even though a month ago when we met, I had told her I was ending it becuase I wanted to be with her... Then we took a walk through town, down to the lake, holding hands, talking about what she has been up to, etc... it was really nice.
    We got back to her place, and again, I told her how much I had missed her, and how hard this has been, and I poured my heart out to her... told her I loved her, that I wanted to be with her, share my life with her, explore love with her... everything we had always talked about... to let it out into the open and be free to live and thrive and grow... and that i had no expectations, but just wanted to give it a was amazingly liberating...and she smiled, and i thought.. wow, this is going to be great, this is really happening, I am really going to do this..... and then she was silent... and looked away... and when she turned back around, she looked at me and said thank you for saying that... it was really great to hear... but I really wanted to hear that a year ago.....oh, now my chest is getting tight, and I am trying to tell her that this can be our time, we have invested too much to walk away, that I love her, and I want to give this a shot, to let it out... and she agreed, and told me she loved me, and that she knows we could be happy together, and that she wanted to say yes... but that something in her gut was not letting her.....
    We hugged, and cried together, and not wanting to ompletely push her away, I told her above all I wanted her to be happy, and that I know we can be happy together, and that if she could just give it a chance, it would be amazing... and we sat, cuddling for over an hour, occassionally kissing, and talking a little... at this point, I still felt that maybe we could talk this through, see what was holding her back... well, then she tells me that the month has been very hard, the first week especially... but then it got better.. and a guy asked her out, and that she accepted, and went on a date... now I am thinking.. what? a date? are you kidding me? Though in my head, I had kind of suspected that when she asked for the break, but never really thought it would happen... so we talked about it a little. and she said she liked it, that it was nice to be out and not have to worry about being seen, or feel paranoid.. and I can see that, I get that... btu then she said it was really, really weird feeling to do it.... and at that point, I was trying to be understanding, that she was exploring her emotions, and maybe she had to do that to know about us... so we talk some more and then she says... sitting here longer is not making me feel any different...
    as if to say, I am not changing my mind... i do love her, and I want her to be happy, so I told her that, and I said I was going to miss her, and that it is crushing to hear her say that... but that if she does not feel it, then it wont work... then she tells me again that she loves, me, and wants to say yes, but something in her gut wont let her... and the tells me how she loves that I make her feel like the most beautiful woman, and how I accpet her for her, nothing else, and that I have helped her become a much more confident, secure person.. and she will always be grateful for that... so by now, my heart is doing circles... and I tell her again that I love her and that this can work... and i want to make it work... and we hug and kiss some more, and we are crying.. and basically we said goodbye.... and i left after about 4 hours of this...
    on my drive home, I am bawling, sobbing out loud... and I start texting her, asking her wy this cant happen? how can we give up? I love you, and want to try.. why cant we try.. she texts back saying she loves me, and does not know what to say, that she feels horrible... so now I decide that whatever that feeling is, we have to know... I commited to this, now I want to fight for it... we text back and forth some more and she stops I send her a few more saying i beleive in us, that we are meant for each other, that we cannot give up on this without even trying...
    nothing until this morning... she said she does not know what to say, that it is not because of anyone else (one of my questions, is this because of the new guy?), so then I tell her that I need to hear her say that deep in her heart, she does not want to be with me, and that if that is the honest truth, I will accpet that... well, no answer... finally after two hours, I text her again asking if we can talk to today.. and she text back saying not now, but maybe later? and that was about 4 hours ago... needless to say, the longest 4 hours of my life... I feel like I am crazy for wanting this so much, but I believe in it, and truly believe that if we can talk through what that feeling in her gut is, that maybe we have a chance... but I can't give up now without trying.. without understanding what she is feeling, without helping her understand what she is feeling... I fee that we owe that to each other, to communicate, to try and get past this... and then, if we can't, well, we cant... but to not try after almost a year and a half.. it is just killing me...
    I have not been able to eat, or sleep, my chest is tight, dry mouth, heart pounding with anticipation... I just want a chance to make it work... I think we owe that to each other... am I crazy?

    Mon 4, May 2009 at 8:24pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Everything in me wants to call him today.  I have drafted an email, being light hearted and telling him that he doesn't need to subject himself to a difficult discussion, that I miss him, that I hope he's happy, that he can contact me any time.  Also that I'm doing well in my new home and am relieved to have moved out.  I worried over it, wanting to hit the right note of releasing him, letting him know that I'm managing fine without him but that I still care and would like to see him.  Very difficult!  Especially when all I actually want to say is 'I can't breathe without you, I love you more with each day and I want to wake up with you every morning and fall asleep with you every night.'
    But anyway, that aside, something is stopping me from sending it.  I want to wait, see what happens, let him breathe.  See if he contacts me.
    I did see Matt in passing at work the other day.  I could see out of the corner of my eye that he saw me and he stood and looked for a moment.  It was heart wrenching, seeing him looking brown and happy and relaxed, cup of coffee in his hand, smiling and chatting.
    I want him so much.
    And I don't believe that he's so good a liar that he completely made up all those lovely things he said to me, really only a matter of days ago.
    The pain is unbearable.  DS I feel for you so much.  But how can you expect someone to answer the question 'why don't you love me as much as you used to?'  From what you've said, it sounds like she's moved on and taken that irrevocable step away from you and while she's the focus of this other guy's interest she won't look back at you.  Perhaps it's my cynical experience talking here, I hope so and I hope she comes to her senses and realises how much she cares for you but it sounds unhopeful.
    How do I stop myself contacting him? Hanging on endlessly?  I want to let go...

    Tue 5, May 2009 at 10:28am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I think you are behaving badly.    ( Abusive term used in original response against terms and conditions 3.1.6 of the site. )  

    Tue 5, May 2009 at 10:52am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I don't know who you are but this is a site for grown-ups.

    Tue 5, May 2009 at 11:04am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    AKS... You are right.. she has moved on, and I have to accept that. I talked to her last night, I sent her a desparate text telling her I needed to talk to her. And we talked, and I just said I am having a hard time understanding all of this, and that all I really want is to hear what she is feeling, to know what is going on in her heart.. and she is younger, and I dont think wants to commit to something like this right now...
    She was in a relationship when we started this, he lived there, and she went right from him to this, and she was saying that when she was with him, and unhappy for so long, she fantasized about dating, and being out there, free and open to experience new things... and I know that is where she is now, and I can't ask her not to explore that.. that would be insanely selfish on my part... it is all I want to do though, but that awould just make it worse... so, she has a huge mational meet coming up (she is a swimmer), and we are going to get together after she gets back and talk... share our feelings, because I do care about her, and I really do want to know where she is at... she is an amazing friend, and part of me does not want to lose that... plus, I think getting it all out would be good for both of us, allow us some closure to this part of the relationship...
    TOday is a lot better than yesterday for me. My heart was racing yesterday, felt sick all day, nervous, desparate, could nt eat, have not slept well in a few days now... but after talking with her last night and then talking to my mom about all this, I feel much better about it all. I do love her, and I want her to be happy, I do... and it hurts so badly that it will not be with me... but I have learned so much about myself, and expressing my feelings through all this... it really has made me a better person, and for that, I will always be grateful to her.
    I also believe in karma now more than ever... my wife has been begging me to just try, to give it a chance.. and I had said I did not want to, and she has been so hurt by not being able to understand why, and I have not shared my feelings with her at all... and now I find myself in that same situation...not being communicated with about the girl's feelings, she never came out and shared with me what she wanted, that she loved me, until just recently... and that was so hard... so now I know my wife's pain in all of this... and it has enlightened me...
    I now face a new challenge of wondering if I should try to make the marriage work now that the affair is over... will she still want to after all this time of begging and me not responding? I guess time will tell.. and is that what I really want? because I know if I agree to try, I have to believe that it could work... and I am not sure I believe that right now...I am still hanging on the the girl, thinkign that there is a small glimmer of hope there... or that maybe someday, 3 years from now, she will call out of the blue to say hi, and then who knows... maybe it will be the right time.
    I feel so sappy these days, but I have discovered, that i truly believe in love, and am a hopeless romantic at heart... and I am going to embrace that about myself, and try to heal and move forward with my life, focus on being a great dad.
    This site has been nice, and I appreciate being able to be part of it.
    Thank you.

    Tue 5, May 2009 at 2:23pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi to all,
    One of the things that strikes me from the most recent posts is just how out of control and unable to stop our feeling we are when we are feeling so love struck.  I did a google search on 'phases of love' and 'being in love' and it is interesting because we are following a pattern of human behaviour.  The chemicals at work in our body influence us like a drug and we cannot help but do these crazy things.  I think this is why it is so exhausting -and why we find ourselves on here. 
    Emly and Suzzy appear to have come through this phase and we should learn from that -even after extreme longing we can begin to see the down sides of the other person.  This is useful, as when we are so love struck, we are projecting our ideal image of a partner onto them rather than seeing the real person.
    Needles to say, I am totally love struck at the moment and even being aware of it as a phase -I cannot fight it ahhhh...
    April x

    Tue 5, May 2009 at 6:24pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Agh April, I've just logged on as having a really lousy day and it now seems I am going to let you down!
    No, p has not come back into my life and neither have my husband and I split again. No I simply miss P today. Why today.... who knows. I feel such a longing which will never be returned. He has fully made his choice and thats that. Perhaps I am looking for something which only can exist in an affair, the thrill or excitment... but I'm not convinced it can not be found.
    Desperately looking for a job but so are so many as I feel I need to fill the void P has left in my life, the purpose... oh I know my children give me one, but then they are at school in the day and to be honest there are only so many coffee mornings i can do and dont get me started on my mums mantra of 'well the house could be cleaner' - god its not a tip, in fact not bad considering I have not much interest in it.
    Always thought the good man, nice house, and comfortable living (not that well off but ok) would bring me the happiness I craved, but 13 years of marriage on and I know I would have lived in a tent if only i could have had P by my side.
    Life has an air of disappointment to it today and as bedtime approaches I feel relived that another day has ended.
    I dont want P back, just the feelings. He was never going to leave her for me, ever no matter what he said. You know, I only ever wanted to be happy - and i was for the 4 months we were together. The best thing that came out of all this is that i was a very tight size 12/14 and now an easy 8/10. Stress works! who needs weight watchers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You are right April and all those who say otherwise have not been through it - even now, new friends join our thread which proves it happens all the time to someone but no one knows the answers...
    I am now thinking that we are just not designed to be with one person for all time. Only really society driven (think this was mentioned earlier in the thread! ) but when you are older and have children, to flit is not straight forward.
    oh well, to bed soon. think I will go it alone to relate tomorrow as husband still does not want to go anymore. paid for it though so many help me to talk.
    Hope Emily you are ok.
    AKS - do you really want to let go? i think i fool myself that same line - how you doing now? any contact?
    DS - oh the maybes and sometime in years to come... believe me, if is is not happening now, move away.. only wish I could fully myself - we always live in hope - wish I could offer you more... take care and write soon.

    Tue 5, May 2009 at 8:08pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Suzzy,
    Please do  not feel that you have let me down!  There is no right or wrong way.  And of all people nobody swings like me from one minute to this the next to that -my gay best friend [GBF] says I am schitsophrenic in the way I go from one to the other.  This is how affairs are -this is how love is! My MM said tonight how tired he is too, and distracted.  We agreed that we need to talk about things -when we get a chance to be together next.  We are in the most heady of phases -where we long to be together, but cannot.  My GBF asked what I would do if I am found out and he doesn't leave his wife -a good point -and I do not have an answer.  And I think of you Suzzy and wonder if he would come to me in such a situation or just sell out.  The trouble is we live in a kind of denial -how can we imagine them not taking our side when they declare such undying love? yet I have been there and known that betrayal! Al so difficult.  No wonder people can relate to these posts. 
    I find myself looking forward to checking this site now - I feel less alone.  Hope you pick up soon Suzzy,
    x April
    ps sorry about my spelling -it is a bloomin' rubbish keyboard!!! 

    Tue 5, May 2009 at 9:42pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    bless you. Still feel low today but decided to go alone to relate after considering not to so will post later.
    Suzzy x

    Wed 6, May 2009 at 7:42am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Well just come back from my session and there will be no more.  Not much point if h will not come. I think the outcome is that we have simply grown apart - ie I have changed since we married and he has not. My life has altered so much, from a career woman to stay at home mum, I just need more now and not sure H fits in. BUT my children have always been important which is why I gave up my career for them, which I dont regret at all... and as such, they are in my mind making my decision.
    My h and I do get on, we dont argue and are friends, its just that, well hes not the man I want by my side for the rest of my life, but I think he is for now while the children are small. I do love him but not in love, more of a brother/sister love. No sure if I can deal with this, but feel probably the right thing to do.
    Trouble is, once I do get a job, I may well find myself tempted if the situation arises and that is not so good. Oh what to do.... Why couldn't P have wanted me completely then this pain would have been for a good reason.
    Suzzy x

    Wed 6, May 2009 at 10:37am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Well I didn't meet him, even though I said I might see him either monday or tuesday.  Instead last night I sent the re-drafted email, saying that there's no need to see me to discuss things and that I hope he's happy etc.
    I think I managed to steer a line of setting him free but still letting him know that I feel the same way and that I'd like to see him but it's his decision - and that I'm ok, not falling apart without him.
    Then I did a really silly thing. I wrote a few lines at the bottom and then coloured the text white so that it's hidden.  He believes in fate. So if it's meant to be he'll realise it's there and read it and it may or may not affect him.  I told him what I really feel, just briefly. 
    I feel like such a teenager.  And of course, true to form, after any sort of contact with him I didn't sleep last night.  I had a counselling session this morning with a very kind man and he was very sweet about my predicament.  I cried and he told me that I was a coper by nature and that he could see there was still some strength there - that encouraged me as I feel incredibly weak.  I can have another 3 sessions with him (on the company) and then decide what I want to do re: further sessions.
    Matt of course has not responded to the email.  And now that it's out there I keep checking my inbox.  That will die down in time I guess but it's unsettling.  I have to accept that it's over but it's like ripping out a piece of my heart.
    DS my heart goes out to you and I hope you heal quickly and completely.  I had a glimpse of how it would feel without any distractions one weekend with P when I first thought it was over with Matt and I think, without any distraction AT ALL i.e. I change my mobile phone number and my email account and avoid him (and others who are 'risky' male friends) at work that we would have a bit of a chance.  However, when there is any kind of double-mindedness it is impossible to make a go of it.  So I guess in the future if I decide to GENUINELY try with P again I've just answered my own question as to what to do and how to go about it.
    Anyway - I really do know how you feel and I'm so sorry.  Have you thought about getting some help now as you break free from your feelings for her and take the next step? Sorry if you have already spoken of this - I'm at work and can't re-read things it takes too long.  It's just that you could probably use someone to talk to, someone to comfort you and someone to give you a bit of perspective.
    My pain is coming over me in waves and I wonder if Matt will ever, truly be in my past - and if I want him to be.  And yet when I talk to my friend (the young lad who I talk to on the internet) I feel clear that he's wrong for me and that we'd never be able to make it work.  I JUST LOVE HIM!!!! Aaaaghhhh!!!
    Where's the OFF button?

    Wed 6, May 2009 at 12:51pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Suzzy, perhaps it is best just to accept a settled period even if he won't go to Relate.  I do hope that you can get over P soon -he hasn't really done you any favours.  Keep plodding on -you are doing well I think.   I am quite envious of the size 8!!
    AKS, I think you have worked out that without contact you are ok -so really that is down to you.  I think we pine for a bit and then get over it.  As I said many posts ago, it is like a bereavement.  Time is the only healer even when you have every reason to not love someone any more you go into denial.  Eventually time helps us to see things in a new light... 
    I am a little more steady today - a busy day at work took my mind off things and when I got a text from my MM I felt pleased and yet almost weary -I am tired now of the emotional stress.  I am sleeping so much and my legs feel heavy as I drag them up the stairs.  I want to know the outcome of my own life!  Am I going to be with him or not? How long will it take? how will my friends and family react if we do make the move? How will his react!?!  
    He is smitten -his term. But aren't we all, when cupid's bow shoots accurately?  I don't doubt anymore that I am with the wrong man - but I do doubt the future every now and then.  Although, if you ask for my gut reaction, I think that actually me and the MM would get on great and that he might actually leave for me.  I think I have enough experience to recognise something good when it happens... Gosh, I do hope I am right!
    x April

    Wed 6, May 2009 at 7:18pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Thank you all for your kind words of encouragement and sympathy. The past 24 hours have again been craziness, and I am hoping the roller coaster will stop soon. Ultimately, I have realized that the affair cannot work long term. Mostly because I have to, since she is done, but the more I think things through, I realize we met each other at low points in our relationship. We were both feeling unliked, unwanted, not good about ourselves.... and we had been friends for almost 3 years by then, and it just took one night and a couple beers together to initiate a kiss... and from there, it was crazy, and wonderful, and fast, and passionate, and open, honest, pouring our hearts out to each other... but we got caught int he trap of making the other responsible for our happiness.
    If I had left my wife 6 months ago when she said she would do anything for me, I would never have addressed my own issues of self loathing, or low self esteem that pushed me over the edge in the first place...and neither would she have. I was talking this over with my mom the other night, and she said... if you had left her then, you would have been broken up before your divorce was final. And she is most likely right. We were right for each other for the right reasons at the right time... but it was not to be together forever.. it was to help us feel good about ourselves, to help us understand that we are loveable people, and that we can be happy, but we have to be happy with ourselves first before ever having a chance at a successful, long term relationship.
    i know we will probably never be together again as a couple, that that is very unrealistic. I still do believe in fairy tales though, and that part of me, the sappy, romantic movie, happily ever after part, may still hold on to some hope for a while... and it will fade over time, I realize that. I do think we are soul mates though, that we were there for each other at a really low point in our lives, and we have given each other the confidence that we are great people, lovable, attractive, wanted.. and that is something i will cherish forever.
    I am going to seek out some counseling, as I think it will be helpful for me to get some of these feelings out, get some objective perspective about my life, and try to really understand me, and what makes me happy. And for that, I am greatful too. I am sad, as I wanted it to work so badly, and I still do love her, and find myself crying still every now and then for a couple minutes.. I am going to really, really miss her tremendously... for I am starting to realize that not pursuing it is the best thing for both of us.. I would rather we end it as friends, being very supportive of each other, than haven given it a shot, and it ending ugly, as i know now that it would have.
    I do believe everything I just wrote, but my heart is still breaking. I want her so badly, i long for her, miss her so, so much is it painful... but, today is better than yesterday, and that is what I have to go with.
    Besides, I have found myself smiling a bit more in the past 24 hours when I am with my kids, and I feel good about that. It is important to me that they have a happy, secure father in their life. I have to be that for them, because none of this is remotely their fault, and they should not suffer in any way. And oddly, forcing myself to smile, helps.
    My wife and I sat down last night and talked, air out some issues, and it was very, very hard. But, I have a new perspective on where she is sitting, as I now sit there, so it was godo to hear her issues, and get soem of mine out. I dont know if things will work out, I really dont. But I know we have committed to talking, and that will be helpful for both of us no matter what happens.
    the worst part of this whole thing is, if the girl called me right now and said I love you, and I want to be with you.. I would do it without hesitation. I still love her. Makes me crazy...

    Wed 6, May 2009 at 7:44pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    whoops, forgot me initials. The above is from me.

    Wed 6, May 2009 at 7:44pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi april,
    I guess you are right, a settled period would be good. Saw him in the playground again yesterday, looking like he thinks he is gods gift! However, i have heard his wife has said ' I will have my revenge' (on him) so maybe this attitude will be short lived.... of god I must stop worrying about him/thinking about him.
    My h and I are getting on ok, just that I thought I was over P and then I see him ... so bloody hard. What if he was to come back to me? no that will never happen and even if he wants, he has been a real arse to me so why should I take him back... stop these thoughts suzzy....... it will never happen.
    Why are we (men and women) so weak sometimes....
    April, I hope you are okay. Emily you too.
    DS I totally can relate to you. The pain of love is so intense sometimes. Its hard but perhaps it is just time to move on . If the other girl joins you on that new journey then it was meant to be, but I dont feel you really want to be with your wife anymore and with only one life, you need to be happy. If the journey is one alone, I am sure you will find another, you sound like a wonderful person. I too have self esteem issues and have gone through my own counselling sessions during my affair. We need to have belief in ourselves but I find that so hard especially now. Truely believe I only married my h as I felt no-one else would have me, so I settled for less than true love.
    My affair gave me loads of confidence and the love and passion I had always craved... but despite saying he would always be there for me, he is not. So maybe my choice of h was not so bad... but not sure.
    We need a life manual.............

    Thu 7, May 2009 at 11:39am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    What the hell is the matter with me... Crying again, no idea what has started this. Just dont know what to do. I miss P, everything about our relationship. I even miss her friendship. Could never have had both, wish I had him.
    What happened to the strong suzzy who was a few weeks back prepared to go it alone... Now I just feel lonely. Is anyone about?
    Suzzy x

    Thu 7, May 2009 at 3:00pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Oh dear Suzzy, it is such an up and down thing isn't it?  The turmoil and trauma.  While I realise you really miss P it would be so much better if you focus on how not good for you he was.  He really doesn't deserve to get you back.  I think you should go look at the 'love and marriage' section in a bookshop.  There are loads of manuals on how to get through this kind of thing -to be honest I read bits of them in the shop.  Let's face it, it would be a bit of a giveaway if I went home with a book called 'Why Good People Have Affairs'!! I also looked at one about finding new love over the age of 40 -again, bit of a clue as to how I am feeling. 
    If only it were easier to stand back from it all when it is happening -like we can years later. I feel so much turmoil myself now, wondering if I am going to end up with MM and if I should leave my marriage in any case.  I even planned a date earlier today -then by lunchtime I had gone off the idea.  It is such an enormous thing to leave a long term relationship -people have no idea when they make harsh judgements on what we have done or are doing.  It doesn't feel like we are making choices; rather that emotions are driving everything.  No wonder so many people make mistakes over splitting and live to regret it later. 
    Phew, it is not easy.  Hope you feel a bit better this eve Suzzy,
    April x

    Thu 7, May 2009 at 4:52pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    I know you are right April, just today it seems so hard to believe things will ever look better. But I have applied for a job today which is a start. with both my children at school now I need to fill the day.
    I will check out the bookshop as suggested. It does help to know you are not alone. I know P is no good and to be honest how could it work anyway. imagine the trouble he would have getting to see his children if he was with me. Still........... Just watched ' my family' on telly and I know it would be great to have the passion that is protrayed there, I know only a programme!
    What stops you really leaving April? I have to admit it is the lack of financial security for me. Once I have a job, at least I will be able to think about supporting me and my children. The bravenest may then return. But as everywhere at mo, there are just not many jobs around, never mind part time.
    Tonight, i am on the wine again. not the best idea but i may be able to sleep then. hopefully tomorrow will be brighter - weather man says heavy showers in the south so perhaps not!!!!! Which part of country are you? dont want details, just north or south.
    For you all I would say, is, you have given your children at stable childhood. It is now your turn. Yes leaving for MM may be a mistake and things may not work out. HOWEVER, they may well work out great. Imagine being on your death bed and thinking ' if only' or have on your grave stone ' could have been truely happy, but never was' . Seriously, you are at a position in life when you , I believe, could take a leap of faith. jump girl and who knows................
    I know someone who left her 21 year marriage for her friends husband (not unlike me). She is now in her 60's and so so happy with her man. Yes she lost friends and yes it was tough but well worth it. I have found her a tower of strength and although there is a great age difference, her life mirrors mine in a weird way - only she got her man!!!!
    i will write again tomorrow. Hope you will too. I seem to need this site soo much at the moment.
    suzzy x

    Thu 7, May 2009 at 6:57pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Suzzy,
    Funnily enough I am just nearing the end of a bottle of red wine... obviously a lot of similarities for people in this situation. I am more north than south.
    I am seeing him tomorrow -we have found some time- and I think we will discuss options.  I don't know if I can do it on my own even though I have a decent salary and kids at/off to uni [youngest goes sept].  I think it just isn't that bad enough to leave -mind you, I was upset yesterday by my husband.  HE has no respect for me and belittles me, never backs me up in front of the kids so they belittle me too. I get so frustrated but bottle it up and just think I can't spoil things cos youngest is in middle of A levels and I have come this far. 
    The MM is perfect -or so it seems but of course they all do.   I knew him as a teen, he is wealthy, handsome, worships me... but loves his children [younger but not babies].  He is torn and I understand as I could not do it when mine were younger, but I am not sure we can continue otherwise.  After all, I don't want to carry on for years -how awful.  I saw a couple earlier today parked at the end of a deadend lane one car hiding the other.  They were kissing passionately -I thought it looked sad -and then I realised I have done that! I never planned to bump into him again after nearly 30 years.  It just happened.  IF he is up for it then I will jump -but I will not try to persuade him -I just can't he must decide on his own.
    I will check-in tomorrow with an update.  He just text...
    April x

    Thu 7, May 2009 at 7:45pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    April, I agree he must decide - I know from P that you cant make someone leave. but he is obviously keen as texting you at that time! I have to say your husband doesn't sound like a decent bloke, I mean I know I dont know the guy but you should not have to be emotionally battered.
    Despite the wine, little sleep again, bad dreams. Its like a never ending nightmare sometimes. i have found the name of a good therapist/counsellor through my doctor who I saw earlier due to lack of sleeping!!! She says this guy is very good and now we are not going to relate anymore he would help.
    I cant keep beating myself up about P and wanting him. Need to move on. He gave me so much self esteem, then took it away but as my doc says it should be me that gives myself esteem, not to rely on others - after all, he let me down when I needed him most. So anyhow, i have rung him and waiting for him to phone back. direction is what i need.
    How are you today?
    Suzzy x

    Fri 8, May 2009 at 8:37am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Suzzy,
    To be fair my husband is a decent guy -honestly! I think I was in a mood last night and overplayed the belittling thing.  However, I am obviously not happy or else I wouldn't even entertain the other bloke!
    We did meet and had a lovely time, but firstly I am not sure he is the right one, and secondly, I don't think he is even entertaining leaving his kids even though he cannot abide his wife.  I am not sure what to do because I dont want to carry on if it is going nowhere -not fair on anyone.  I dn't like being unfaithful and I think I am only willing to do it if it is the one.
    We shall see...
    Hope all well with you Suzzy.  Emily -are you still logging in? xApril 
    Not sure what to think this eve. 

    Fri 8, May 2009 at 3:55pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi april, please to hear that re your husband - I guess we can all be like that when having a bad day, I know i am - wrong time of month for me at mo so think that is why I am being so weird about P.
    Ok day. Hopeful for a good weekend. Not sure how I feel about anything but one thing is for sure, only way is forwards.
    How do we truely know who is the ONE. Have you asked he outright if he will leave for you?
    Take care - will write tomorrow.
    Suzzy x
    PS same to emily - how are you? and DS ? Kat?

    Fri 8, May 2009 at 5:41pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hello again, DS here. I was traveling yesterday, so did not get a chance to log in. I can relate to the not sleeping, I have not slept well this entire week. My stomach is still in knots almost constantly. Last night I went to a banquet, trying to take my mind off of things, and it was out of town, so I could get out of the house as well. I am not sure why I did it, since I did not know anyone there, but after 15-20 awkward minutes standing alone (I am not in the super social mood, obviously), I started talking with some people, and then ended up sitting at a table next to a very nice, attractive woman and her friend. And had a good time just talking about our kids, and the little things they do... it was nice. I will say though, I did check my phone 2-3 times, logging into facebook for an update on the girl. She flew to a national meet yesterday, and I partly wanted to see if she made it ok, but also just like seeing her, since her photo is there too. So, I saw she got there and clicked on the "like" button, so she knows I saw it. I am not sure if she wants to know that I am checking in or not, I am very confused still by this whole thing.
    We have agreed that she will call me when she gets back and get together to talk. I keep going back and forth as to whether that is a good idea or not. ON ethe one hand, I really want to see her again in person to tell her that I love her, to let her know that I will always love her, unconditionally, and that if this is what she wants, that I can uderstand that, and will learn to accept it. There is a huge part of me that wants to spend one last night with her too.. and I am not sure that it will happen, but it could... my friend said to me that I am grasping, denying the truth that it is over... and for the most part, he is probably right.. but how can I give up after so much passion, and openness and knowing that we love each other... I have to try one more time... even if she says no, and even if she has met someone else, which I have been filling my head with this week, I would like this to end with no secrets between us. We shared something that I have never had before, true open and honesty... well, at least for me... ANd she accepted me as me, and I accepted her as her... I hate that I have doubts now, that my mind questions things she said or did... that nasty little emotion of untrust has been creeping in, and I just hate it...
    I then think, well, maybe it is better to not see her, to write her a letter or something, telling her how I feel, and then if she reaches out, it will be her choice... I dont want to force her into telling me things she is not ready to tell, or maybe she does not even know why, but just knows in her gut that she cant... or if she is seeing someone else, would she even tell me? And if she did, could I really handle it? I think that I could, because I already think that, but getting that confirmed, in person, i nmy fragile state? Not sure i could deal with that... I have set up an appt to talk to a counselor next Wednesday, so I am hoping that will help.
    I did not sleep at all hardly last night, and woke up panicy again this morning, so I called the place to see if I could even get in today... this is so crazy. Why do I have so much anxiety over this? I think that this complete, sudden loss of control is what is part of my problem with the anxiety. If I look back, I had control of the situation the whole time. It was always when I had time, she was all about what I wanted to do... granted, I would do whatever she asked me to, and I loved when she asked me to do things... but in the end, I was the one married and she had to play the waiting game.. she said she was ready 6 months ago.. but at that time, right before christmas, had I left then, all of the sudden, it would have left scars that may never heal, on a lot of people... I could not do that to my kids, I just could not... and money is an issue, and I talked to the girl about it, and she said she would wait... but she said the other night on the phone... I think you are too late... but she will not commit to anything, which is what is freaking me out, that she keeps leaving the door open like that.
    I do believe that she is confused, and ashamed of her actions, and would like to just forget about it and move on. That the idea of someone finding out down the road that we had an affair is too much for her to bare. That it is too big of a burden to carry around. I had gone out with some of her swimming friends in March, and then went to her meet later in that week, where I met them again, and some more... and we hung out, and were kissing in the parking lot, where we were in plain view of them... and I was so encouraged by that, that she would include me, and kiss me in front of them... that to me was a sign that she was accepting this.. which made me so happy. I wonder though, that since then, if there have been questions, and if the questions have made her think abotu the fact that there may always be questions, and if she cannot accept the truth, or the fact that we would have to lie about how we met, then that is something the just cant do. This is what I have been doing to myself, thinking and thinking and over thinking and thinking some more.... i am seriously going crazy with these emotions... which leads me to the fact I have to see her again, I have to talk to her, try to get a feel for where she is at in all of this. I feel like we are so close, and that if an get over this hurdle, we could really have a wonderful happy life together.
    My sister was living with her fiance for a while. His best friend was going through a divorce, and was staying there. While he was there, my sister and him fell for each other. They lost most of their friends, there was a lot of pain, but they loved each other, and made it through...  they have been married 10 years, have 3 wonderful kids and one of his from the first marriage and are very happy. I look at that and think, the effort would be worth it. If we can just get past the hard part, the rest would fall into place.
    I need some closure on this, and therefore have to see her. MAybe I will try to start drinking some red wine, does it help?

    Fri 8, May 2009 at 6:40pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Well, for me it is white wine, red gives me bad heads - actually too much white does too - perhaps should steer clear? hell no! Not so much of a help, but a blocking of emotions.
    You are in a bad state aren't you. I remember the panic feelings, thats how I lost so much weight, could not eat for them! I think, if you ca, and she is willing, meet up and really talk. its the only way but you must be prepared for her to not want what you do.
    If she feels you are not for her, have you thought what you wiill do at home?
    Suzzy x

    Fri 8, May 2009 at 6:57pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    That is a really good question. I also am losing weight byu the hour it seems.. my pants are falling off, and I am a skinny guy to begin with. Even my family is like, here, eat! Which of course I cannot.
    I am so pathetic, I was just watching the internet for her swim meet updates, and she just finished her first event and did super good. I am so proud of her. She has worked really hard, and she did great. She has 5 more to go over the next two days. I am trying to get the website to work on my phone so I can follow her this weekend. I so love her.
    I do agree with you in that I think we need to really sit down and talk. I am preparing for the fact that she may not want to continue. And I can understand logically all of her reasons for not wanting to. It will be hard, and emotional, and she is young and just may not want to deal with it. I think part of her wants to date, and enjoy that part of her youth. I just know that dating is not all that glamourous, and if you have, in her words "true love", then why walk away in hopes of maybe finding that again? Sure, in my head, I think it seems like it would be fun to date, and hang out, etc... but i know that is a draining process, and often does not lead to anything meaningful...
    I dont know.. we live life once, and if we are lucky enough to find someone who makes us feel like this, and who we make feel like this, then how can than not happen? I am still struggling with understanding.
    The swim club that she is part of on their website talks about how many couples have met through swimming, and posts their story online. She has commented a couple times how nice that is, and how those people seem so happy (one of the ones on there she is friends with, so that is not helping). I think she has that fairy tale in her head... that she wants to be one of those success stories. I fear that she may be putting too much of herself into the sport, and may wake up in a few years and realize that yes, she is a great swimmer and in great shape, but maybe she put too much of herself into at the expense of a relationship.
    Part of me wants her to be happy, and if I am not the one for her, then I do hope she can find it. But, it is like she thinks she can just go out and find this again, like it is easy or something. And hey, she is young, and attractive and gets hit on, so I know she will have no problem finding dates. And maybe she will meet a swimmer and they will fall in love and be the next success story... it could happen.
    I just need to talk to her next week, and either get on the bus or off. This middle gray area is too much to take.
    As far as at home, I will have this huge secret now, and my heart has been taken.. I am not sure if I will ever be able to truly love my wife again. We are talking, and it is hard, but I am learning about myself more, finding out some of my weaknesses, so that part of helpful. We are looking each other in the eye when we talk now, so that is progress I think. Still no affection of any kind, but who knows. I think if the girl is out, I will at least try at home. I mean, it is worth a shot... maybe this whole thing was a way for me to appreciate what I do have, and to learn to love that... a way to realize that the grass is not greener, even though is sure does look like it sometimes.
    And I hear you about the self esteem.. I felt so great when I was with the girl, she made me feel like the most confident, sexiest man around, and that is hard to lose. I think we are all good people who have just found ourselves in unfortunate situations. We will al be ok eventually, just hard to see that since we are so far in it at the moment.
    Each day brings a little glimmer of clarity, so once enough of them go by, hopefully the picture will be in focus.

    Fri 8, May 2009 at 8:44pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    hi all,
    Feel a bit better today. I think knowing I probably will not see either of them today helps.
    Need to get some focus into my life, aas all I seem to do is go round in circles. One minute I feel I am over him and feel great, then back down again, heart breaking, feeling sick. 
    Hows everyone else?
    Suzzy x

    Sat 9, May 2009 at 10:42am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All,
    April, going back to your last question -have I asked him outright?
    Well, it was never really the idea of that that got us started so I didn't ever want to scare him by sounding too keen or pushy so I have played it very slowly.  Then last weekend when we 'accidentally' met up in town -both happening to be on a night out and both rather p*ssd that he poured out his heart and said he had fallen in love, but also loved his children. Then, when we met in the week he couldn't remember all that he said so I was a bit huffy -but I think I got the wrong end of the stick.  When I saw him this weekend, I was more forthright and said that I needed to know what to expect as I didn't want to get hurt by thinking it was a possibility and then finding it never was.  He said that he had often thought of leaving his wife as so unhappy, and that he was still thinking about it.  He said he would do that and then we could see how we felt rather than it being because of me.  Which I think is just so very sensible and the very reason why I like him so much. 
    In the meantime, DS -I think you are suffering from an obsessive infatuation and some time away from the girl, where you can take stock is for the best.  One of the things that I can't help wondering with all of us is why we need to know the answers now?! [me included!] Because if we ust give things time they sometimes do sort themselves out.  So we stress wehn we don't need to.  Of course, we cannot help it due to the obsessional nature of being 'in love' and because of the added complication of possibly getting caught or feeling guilty. 
    One of the major things to be wary of, I think, is the way in which an outside relationship messes up a sturggling marriage -or even an ok marriage come to that. I thnk that we begin to find it difficult to like the husband/wife when we are feeling guilty -it is a way of projecting blame away from ourselves too.
    Suzzy, I know what you mean with the going round in circles -but try and stay chilled and think how far you have come. 
    April, x

    Sun 10, May 2009 at 2:17pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    April, I think you have hit the nail right on the head. I was reading about rebound relationships this weekend, and how Lust and Obsession can be mistaken for love, expecially in situations of affiars or ging from a bad relationship right into another relationship. You are right, I am a bit obsessed with her, and my head is telling me that I am, but my emotions are so high, I cant seem to control it.
    I followed her on facebook this weekend, throughout her meet, sending a couple comments of congrats and encouragement. She did amazingly well, and i know now that her confidence is skyrocketing. And knowing that, I aso know it will make it so much easier for her to say, see ya. I have also been doing a lot of thinking, along the same lines of what you were say April. I cannot leave a marriage to jump right into something with her. It would never work. What I need to do, is to talk with my wife, get everything out on the table, and decide yes or no. Once that is done, if we decide to end it, at least we will have gotten everything out, and hopefully could be in a good place so that we could still be great parents together and support each other in that way. I have been thinking a lot about my boys, and none of this is their fault, yet they stand to be impacted greatly in all of this. They are young, and not seeing their dad everyday will be very hard for them. I struggle with the benefits of being there for them everyday, and being mostly content... or not seeing them everyday, but being truly happy with myself. I keep going back and forth, but in the end, at least today, I feel like it is better for them to see me truly happy and secure and confident with my life, than it is to see me just mostly content. I want them to be strong, confident men, and I have to be that example for them.
    I dont have much hope for my marriage at this point. I know my wife does, and we have been talking more, which has been helpful for both of us. I am supposed to see the girl this week, but again, after this meet in which she did amazingly well, I will be surprised if I even hear from her. What is hard for me si that the last time we met and talked, she said I was the reason she was able to get her confidence back, and that I have been the biggest influence in her life and her happiness... I did encourage her to go for the things in life she wanted, and I was there for her, everyday telling her how beautiful she is, and how she could do anything... which is seems also means moving on from me. I do take pride in being able to help her feel great abouit herself, but it also makes me a little angry that she can now just say thanks and walk away, leaving me to pick up the pieces. But, after reading about rebound relationships, that is what happens. I knew going into all this from the first time we kissed, that it was going to end with either me hurting someone, or me getting hurt... there was no way for one of those not to happen... what I did not realize is that they both could happen.
    I have closed the facebook account on my phone, and have decided not to check in on her. And if she contacts me, and wants to still get together to talk, I will do that. And I will tell her that I love her, and that I believe that this could work, because I do believe that. I also have to move forward with my life. I have spend over a year in hiding with her, putting the rest of my life on hold because every spare moment was spent either with her, thinking about her, or planning on the next time I could see her... and when I was not doing that, I was being a dad, working or sleeping. I was doing nothing for me, nothing that I enjoyed. No hobbies, not being with friends, nothing. Because she was single though, she was living her life, putting herself out there, swimming, training, making new friends... she was living, which leads us to today.. where she has spent that time making a life for herself, and now that she has seen that she is a likable person, and her confidence is up... I am thinking she has decided she does not need this hassle anymore... this secretive, always worrying about who may see, etc. I cant do that either, which is why I was excited about ending my marriage and actually being with her, for real. Dating her, meeting her friends, her meeting my friends.. sharing our lives together.
    That was my dream though, my pespective. And I have to accept that it is not hers. So, I have to focus on what I do have, my boys, being their dad. I need to address my marriage, in or out. and only once that is done, will I be in a position to think about a new relationship. And if she is around, and interested, I will definitely ask. By then though, I am guessing she will not be. I saw a movie trailer recently, and the quote in the trailer was "You cannot build happiness on someone else's unhappiness." Thinking about that, it is so true.
    You are right about the needing to know thing April, it is really crazy. I was in a state of panic last week, needing answers, thinking I was going to go insane if I didnt get them right away... i am not sure why it is all about the now. It may be a factor of the relationship, given that because it is an affair, it is always about the now, since the future is so uncertain.
    I am reaching a time where I have to start moving forward witih my life, living it for me, to try to become the man I want to be, the father that my boys need, and the husband I know I can be, even if its not for my current wife.

    Mon 11, May 2009 at 2:27pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I tried a lot of  red wine on Saturday, and then some beers yesterday... they seemed to help a little bit. Though when I wake up, nothing is changed, and now I have a headache. What can you do....

    Mon 11, May 2009 at 3:20pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    I'm drinking far too mich, though for me it is white wine. know what you mean, nothing changes does it.
    Cant help thinking I will never be able to sort myself out. Today has been relatively good but who knows about tomorrow. I just miss P and know it will never be again and that breaks my heart.  I often ask myself, why was I not enough for him, why.. but then he chose his children over me and that is the right thing to do, but still...
    Self esteem is lacking and thats perhaps why we stray, looking for the attention we crave.
    what is it we all are looking for............. happiness? so why for us does it seem so hard to find.
    Take care, write soon.
    Suzzy x

    Mon 11, May 2009 at 5:01pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Seems we are of similar mindset today.. I have been asking myself the happiness question a lot recently.. why am I never happy with what I have? What is it about me that makes me always look over my shoulder? Yesterday, my mom and sister and her family came over for Mother's Day. We have fun, there was some tension in the air, but it was fun.
    Last night, i was talking with my wife, and we were talking about this idea of happiness, and she mentioned that she has noticed that my entire family, mom, sister, dad, is never happy with anything. There is always something wrong with everything. Not enough of this, or too little of that, or not good enough, or it would be better if it had this, or whatever... And that is my environment. My parents were never happy with anything they had, always wanting something else, more, better, etc... And that is now how I am too. Have been for my entire life. Always dreaming about what I wished I had. And I would do that with the girl too. I would. And it probably would not take long either.
    I have figured out that for some reason, I cannot allow myself to be happy. There is something inside of me that will never be content with what I have. And it has, and will continue to ruin every meaningful relationship I have. Which is why I am going to talk to someone professionally starting this week. It is painful to live your life not being happy, and not knowing why. I mean, I have a great life if you look at it. I have a wife who loves me, and all she ever wanted was for me to talk to her. I have 2 amazing, bright, intelligent, loving kids. Great house, big backyard in a great neighborhood with great schools. I have a great job with a company that is stable, and the only place I can go is up... so what is wrong with me? What is it about me that is holding me back?
    I always think about do things, exercising more, joining a bike club, going to golf more, reading more, whatever, whatever... and I do nothing.. I am somehow paralyzed in life, not allowing myself to take part in things, make new friends, put myself out there to enjoy life. Instead I just hide behind this face of misery, blaming everyone for my state of unhappiness. It is no one's fault, it is my fault. I never say what I want, when I want it, I never put myself out there to rty new things, to take risks... I have no one to blame but myself. It is not the girl's fault that I am unhappy... it is my fault for putting myself in that position, for giving her all the power for my happiness... it is not her reponsibility to make me happy... it is mine.
    I was just writing in my diary (started a month ago). I was thinking about April's post of why everything has to be right now... and it doesnt. Why do I have to make her choose right now? TO justify me leaving my wife? That is not right. That is too much pressure to put on someone. No one wants to be a home wrecker, no one wants to be responsible for taking a dad away from his kids.... i got scared, that if I left my wife, I would be alone, and that if she was there, then I would be ok. That is too much pressure for someone, anyone. We have to do things for ourselves. And we cannot make others take on that responsibility, no matter how much love there is between us. I am now excited to talk to her, to tell her these... I feel like i am getting a better understanding of all this, and the reasons behind it... and I feel much better.
    I will be ok without her, and I would be ok on my own too. I could never put that kind of responsibility onto her shoulders... to make her my safety net... we have to own our actions in this life, and I am going to start that now. I am 38 years old, and it is about time I started to be responsible for my life. We are all looking for happiness, but until we realize we have to look at ourselves first, we will never find it.
    A lightbulb as been turned on.

    Mon 11, May 2009 at 5:46pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Oh DS I hope for you sake you can start this. I go through phases of thinking, 'I can do this' and 'i dont need him' . I too put too much pressure, wanted him now and whilst we talked of a future together when the kids had grown, it was not enough for me. I wanted him today, not a possibility in the future and felt he would complete me, give me the happiness I crave.
    BUT, he let me down big and therefore I must get my head round the fact that it is me who needs to find  me. I have been just mum for so long now, P gave me me back, then buggered off taking part of me with him. Should rely on myself for happiness and self esteem not another because, as I found out, if it is not self made, it can disapppear as quickly as it materialised.  However, doing is harder than saying.
    Think I must be driving my friends mad so this link is soo needed. They say I am not but they dont really understand how I feel. those of us on this link do as we either are or have been through the situation.
    We both need to truely believe we can make it on our own, and thats the hard bit. Scared, nervous and excited are all feelings I have when I think of separation. Need to think of my children though - they would miss their dad...
    Oh god not easy is it.  More wine anyone?!
    Suzzy x

    Mon 11, May 2009 at 7:47pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All
    Have been reading all of your comments with great interest and empathy. I am a 40yr old man who has been with my wife for 20yrs and married for 6. We have two beautiful children aged 10 and 8. I will try and keep my predicament short as believe me you could lose a day of your life iof I didnt.
    My relationship with my wife has always been OK (I choose that word carefully). Have never really felt the butterflies even in the beginning(cant speak for her obviously). We hardly row and she is a great Mum and a great person who is liked by everyone. 5 yrs ago I met a woman client through work, She to was married and my age but with no kids. Any way to cut a very very long story short we fell head over heals in love. She has been seperated for over 3 years now but we have been seeing eachother twice a week sometimes more. We have developed an extremely intense deep relationship.
    Along the way we have had a few 'splits' which have lasted at most a week and always ended up back together. However, she (understandably) has reached her limit and she just can not go on waiting for me to leave. She is an absolutely stunningly gorgeous woman and we just 'get' each other (sorry if that sounds a bit naff). We make each other laugh we share the same interests and I just worship her. I dream of having a 'normal ' relationship with her like going the pictures or going for long walks (none of which me an my wife do...and that is because I dont want to)
    I said a month ago that I will do my upmost to leave within a month. The month has passed and I am still here. My whole life is an act at the moment and I feel as though I am running at about 10%. I have changed so much as a person (for the worse) certainly in the last 3 years when I got that horrible realisation that my feelings had gone to far. I just love her so much.
    But how can I hurt the mother of my children and the 2 kids I adore for my own happiness. Just to compound things, because of the nature of my business, the Credit Crunch has had a devastating impact on my finances.
    Then I think that I am not being fair on my wife by going through the motions and denying her the opportunity to be happy. It is a never ending circle of torture. Things are extremely strained at home and we both are very conscious of the situtation. My wife had an anon letter over a year ago stating that I am having an affair with XXX which like a coward I denied. We havent had any since however I am sure this is playing her mind (rightly so). How I wish I would have come clean then.
    I know if I dont leave I am going to regret it for the rest of my life ...YET .. I just can not seem to do it. I also feel that If I dont leave my marriage will fall apart anyway and XXX will have moved on and I will be left with nothing.
    And Believe me I know its my fault but I keep telling myself we are all human.
    One Life ... Just wish I could find the strength

    Tue 12, May 2009 at 9:55am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    To the above gentleman. I hear ya. I was right where you are, and about a week ago, when I decided to I had found the strength to leave, to make myself happy, the woman I have been seeing for over a year decided she could not. I paniced, was in a free fall (which, if you have been readin, you probably saw that).
    I have realized over the past few days though, that this is the best thing that has ever happened to me in the big picture. Yes, it is deeply, deeply painful, and there is no way around that. But, there is something in all of us that has made us seek out another, and that something, whatever it is for each of us, has to be addressed before we can be happy. For me, I have realized that for some reason, I have not allowed myself to be happy ever. I always have blamed someone for my unhappiness, and even when it was right in front of me, my girl said she was ready, and when she said it, I froze up, got scared and could not commit. And then when I finally got up the courage to do it, the window was all but closed... And I knew that, yet I progressed forward, knowing I was going to get hurt.
    Guilt is an aweful thing, and unless addressed, will always creep in and ruin relationships. I have been harboring a lot of guilt, and have not allowed myself to be happy. To embrace what I have because I feel like for whatever reason, I dont deserve it. And until I can love me for me, and forgive myself for the actions I have taken, I will never be happy, no matter how much I love the girl, or how much she loves me, or how beautiful she is, or how intimate we are... until I forgive and love myself, I will never allow myself to be happy.
    I see that now, and believe it, and have to be strong and address this demon head on. And I have to do it withoug being distracted by the girl. Because if she is around, then I will continue to deny myself the attention I need from me. I started this year, 2009, knowing this would be a year that changed my life. The change is completely different than I imagined, and much more painful that I knew was possible.... but it is necessary, and I need to commit to forgiving myself, being at peace with myself. Until I do that, I will never be truly happy.
    We are all stronger that we realize, and it is true, what does not kill us, makes us stronger. I am not sure how long this journey of self healing and self love will take, but I know I have to start now. I owe that to my kids and to myself. No one should go through life unhappy, and I know now that you cannot rely on someone else to make you happy. Until you are truly content with your own life, happy with who you are and what you stand for, true love will always be but a fantasy.
    And that is what these affairs are, they are fantasies, not grounded in reality. And in a fantasy, we can escape from our problems, our issues, our hang ups about ourselves... but once they are uncovered, and out in the real world, they are no longer fantasies, they become real, and they come with all the real issues that are currently in our real lives. I am going to be working on forgiving myself, trying to understand what has motivated me to run away into the arms of another, and make them responsible for my happiness. And that makes me happy. I am scared to death about what I have to give up to do this, but I have to, otherwise, I will always be like this. Always looking over my shoulder, always worrying, wondering, and I cannot let my boys grow up seeing their dad like that. They need a father who is happy and secure with himself. And whether he is married to their mom or not, they need to grow up confident and secure and happy with who they are. I have to lead by example, there is no other way.
    This blog has been amazingly helpful with the short time i have been on here. I have also been keeping a journal every day, which I have found to be very good for me. It helps to go back and read them, get a feel for how i was that day, and what a difference a day makes. I am terrfied, but with each day, I know this is the right thing to do. I do love this girl, with all my heart, but at some point, we have to accept that affairs are fantasy, and in reality, i have to accept responsibility for my actions and forgive myself for them and continue to move forward. Treading water is so very tiring, and I cannot let myself drown.

    Tue 12, May 2009 at 2:17pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi DS,
    You speak well. I am coming to the same conclusion. When my husband moved out for short while, i thought I wanted him back because I missed him, but now he just bugs me all the time. I simply dont want this but at each turn I am afraid to jump ship. But my girls deserve a happy mum just not sure when I will be strong enough to follow the whole thing through. We have a holiday booked, so maybe after that. It may be that the break away together makes or breaks - something has got to happen.... trouble is I am always making excuses... just scared.
    My main problem is the inability to move on from P in my head. Still cant believe it is over... still hoping...

    Tue 12, May 2009 at 4:30pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I know exactly how you feel, I truly do. i have read, and re-read my post, and my journal entry a couple times today (the say about the same thing). I know that this is what I have to do, but i am no where near over the girl. She had this big meet over the weekend, and when we talked last week she said she would call me yesterday, she promised. Well, it is today, and I have not heard from her. Everytime my phone lights up with a new message, I check it immediately thinking that it is her. I know it is over, I do. I have not accepted it yet, but I am really, really trying.
    I figure if I say it enough, then I will start to believe it. I was talking with my mom last night, and she said look, this girl is not going to call you, she is done, and she has moved on. You need to do the same. Put half of the energy into your marriage that you put into this affair, and you could be happy. Your wife loves you, you have amazing boys, you have to try to make that work. And I agree with her, I really do, but I cannot seem to commit myself to it. I miss the girl so much... i found myself checking in on facebook again today, it is like I cannot stop. April was right, I am obsessed, but like you, I cannot beielve it is over. I keep going through it all in my head, and still cannot understand it.
    We have to be strong, stand up for ourselves and be proud of who we are. We cannot rely on another to make us happy, we can't. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life, and it is consuming me... I cant concentrate, constantly thinking about what I am going to say to the girl when I see her again.. will I see her again? I truly hope she does not cut me off, but i am thinking that is now a real possibility.
    why can't I be happy with my wife? she loves me, we have amazing kids, she says she will do anything to try to make this work... why cant I commit to trying? I know I should. Is it possible I can find the kind of passion with my wife I had with the girl? I dont think that it is. And because that is how I think, should I even try? And what if I can? would I be happy then? What it holding me back from trying?
    I really would love to speak with the girl again, just to know what is going on with her, what was it that held her back, did not allow her to say yes... I think if I can understand that, it would be really, really helpful for me. Helpful for me to move forward. I have to move forward, but it seems I am stuck, no matter how hard to try to believe my own words...You are right, this is madness!

    Tue 12, May 2009 at 6:36pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All,
    DS a thought has just occured to me after reading your posts -which might be useful.. Last year I had a man fall head over heals in love with me -he was at my work.  I was new and I really liked his attention to begin with, but then he told me how crazy for me he was and I went right off him -truly as 'off' as you can get! Now, not that I am trying to get you or suzzy back into these old relationships that have failed, [so far] but I think I shoud point out just how unattractive it can be when someone is obsesionally in love with you.  I ended up so as I could not stand the sight of him! Pleased to say he has left so no longer  an issue, but food for thought maybe?
    Hello to new poster -you are in good company here...
    I find that I am taking a welcome break from my lover for a few days as so busy.  It does give time to reflect and all of a sudden things don't seem so bad or urgent.  I know I am not overly fulfilled at home, but acutally I am quite happy and have no grounds to complain compared to many.  I wonder even if I actually want him to commit to leaving as a sign of his devotion to me, even though in my mind I am not sure that I could commit!!!   
    To the new guy - I do think that given the length of your relationship you need to act now -if you really love her then go for it otherwise end it and commit to your wife.  Surely your wife desreves a chance to find someone else too? 
    April x

    Tue 12, May 2009 at 7:00pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    You are very right, and I worry that I have scared her away with my actions last week. I think I just got caught up in it all and could not control it. And I know that I am risking ruining any chance that there may be left, but I just cant seem to control my actions. I have decided that I am not going to reach out to her anymore, and if I do not hear from her, well, then that is that. There would be so many complications if she were to say yes at this point, that even if she did say yes, I think the drama and the complexity of a divorce with kids would end it anyway. If I could take back the last week and a half, I really, really would. I acted like a crazed man, and I do regret it. Not being able to control it is concerning to me, and I do need to distance myself from it.
    I have never been an emotional guy, and with the girl, I had all these new emotions, and I honestly did not know how to deal with them, react to them, control them. And, I was in a state of panic, grasping at anything to try to gain some sort of understanding. I need to lay off, I know I do. Just can't seem to find the strength to do so. I have always heard that love makes you do crazy things, and I guess I know that it is now true. Reality is a hard thing to face sometimes, and I am getting a nice huge dose of it right now. Tomorrow I have my first appt with a counselor in a long term attempt to understand why I cant control myself, and what is it that makes me so desparate, so unhappy with what I have and always wanting something else. I am confident that this is the right thing to do.
    April, did you ever date the guy in your office? Not that I am trying to take away from your example, because it is completely valid. But if you had spent the last year with him, telling him you cant live with out him, that you would do anything for him, anything to be with him, that he is like air to you, and you cannot imagine your life without him... and then one day said to him, I need a break. And if he honored that break for a month, and then came back and said he loved you, wanted to be with you... is that not even a little justified? Again, I am not trying to discount anything, but it is not like I had a crush on someone that never really wanted to be with me... she gave herself to me completely, and then just walked away... so yea, I got desparate, and my desparation may have pushed her away, it may have. I am just struggling for some understanding. What happened that made her just turn it off... I can accept it with time, but knowing would make it so much better.
    Thanks for the reality check April, I need as many as I can get these days.

    Tue 12, May 2009 at 7:28pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Wow.  Its been so long since I've logged in here.  Great to see DS and the other guy on here.  Long ago I was the lone guy (Ivan, that's me- bunch of posts above).
    DS, your story is mine.  I won't bore you with the details again, but check above.  I had an affair with a woman (both of us are married) that went on for two years.  I know your situation is different, but eventually she basically told me we had our chance and we missed it and I hadn't done anything.  She went away and I was miserable and I knew she still loved me and yes eventually she came back and again we talked about how passionately we loved each other. 
    But you know what happened then?  She left again.  She got pregnant and decided that she couldn't leave her marriage and that she wasn't close enough to me and she couldn't have an abortion and I'd missed my chance.  She told me that she loved me and she didn't know what to do but that she couldn't leave and she couldn't trade her existing problems for new (and potentially untested ones).
    That was months ago and I still miss her every day and still think about picking up the phone to call her and like you still wonder what if.  What if down the road we could wind up together?  What if down the road she realizes that she misses me?
    I guess my point is, you need to stop thinking that now.  I needed to a long time ago.  I was utterly obsessed like you and basically was in love with a fantasy.
    Like you I need to learn how to be happy with myself and whole by myself and realize that my happiness does not come from someone else.  I read your posts and it reminds me of all the pain and hurt I felt and have been feeling (which actually is why I don't log on much anymore).
    I am glad to hear that you are seeing a therapist, as I am and it has helped immensely.  I've found out a great deal about myself (such as the fact that I have ADD which I never knew) and have explored my reasons for doing so many things.
    Best of luck with it and best of luck discovering yourself.  Believe me, you can do it.  I'm in your exact position of now trying to sort out how I feel about my wife and what to do now and how to let go and accept.

    Wed 13, May 2009 at 12:12am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    DS, April and Ivan
    Thanks for the understanding words. I will respond in full later. But you all mention the word 'Madness' and it is complete and utter madness. Its just absolutely constant. As you will find out my situation is at the point of no return. We have had the month cut off I talked about but also to compound matters my mother in law yesterday decided to pay for a family holiday for five days in Disney Land Paris ... in 2 weeks!! Obviously that has gone down like a lead baloon!!
    I spent much of last night doing a very detailed budget planner for the family household if I were to leave. Basically because my income has reduced greatly due to my business being in Financial Services I would have to be giving 80%-90% of all my income to my wife to keep a roof over their heads. (could not sell property as now in negative equity)Now I appreciate things are going to be financially tough in the short term whatever decision I make and I am prepared to give whatever it takes to my family. However it will leave me next to nothing to bring to my new life which is going to be one hell of a strain.
    I too have been seeing a counsillor which has been helpful but I think I was hoping to come out of the first session with all the answers but its a long long road we find ourselves on. At the moment I just feel my future is mapped out..... I am not able to make the decision to leave..... XXX moves on and meets someone who can fulfill her dreams.... My marriage falls apart...... I am left full of regret and alone.... Catastrophic Thinking is the term I believe. I just feel really really scared.
    I look around and I become envious of some of the parents at the School or my lads football who are divorced yet appear to be okay with each other. Their kids appear happy. they have managed to do it why cant I.
    DS you mention Guilt and it is certainly a major factor in my thinking. I feel extremely under pressure at the moment and it is killing me. Thanks for reading everyone its nice to know I am not the only mad person in this world !!!!
    I just worship her.
    (I will call myself BB)

    Wed 13, May 2009 at 7:11am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Dear all,
    Having a stronger day today. Not sure why as P was there at pick up today and usually this causes me problems. Perhaps I am getting over him at last! Famous last words no doubt!!
    How are you April and all? And emily - do you check in? Would be great to know how you are doing. please write soon.
    Not much to say but hope to hear from you lot soon.

    Wed 13, May 2009 at 5:46pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All,
    Well, crikey -the posts are gathering momentum!
    To answer DS first about the guy at the office.  I told heim from the outset that I didn't do affairs [I know a bit hypocritical considering a year later I did] but said I would have lunch etc and enjoyed his company.  He just became too much -he wanted me so badly and I just didn't ant him that much back -the final straw was a valentine card that said 'we will always be a part of each other's lives' and I just though god  no, I really don't feel like that. 
    I think the other thing to remember is that old 'treat em mean keep em keen' saying.  I think this is true -as soon as someone is too besotted I go off them [all my life I felt like that]  I like to be chased, but then I need them to be cool too.  I think with my current lover that I really want him to say he loves me so much hwe will leave but then if he were really demanding and saying let's do it I would go off the idea. 
    I had a major cursh on a guy a year ago -we met and stuff, but I could never quite get him and it drove me crazy. My gay best friend said I wanted him cos I couldn't have him -which is so true cos he would never have made a good match really and I knew that. 
    As to the 'fantasy' that Ivan talks of  -yes this is absolutley what humans do.  we project our 'ideal' image onto the real person and for a bit we see them as the answer -perfect beyond reality.  This is why most marriages turn out to be different to the image we had of them. I am actually now scared that my lover is doing this with me -he seems to worship me anad I am not so great -you know! I am a slob, selfish, moody, and will probably go off sex eventually just as his wife has... Ha! He thinks tht I am the bees knees, biut he does play it quite cool which keeps me on my toes.  My gay BF says just enjoy it for an affair -but when I do that I feel guilty.  I also feel that I have found a better personality match with him -in cold-hearted terms.  I don't even fancy him as much as I did the crush last year, but it feels more sustianable for that.
    Suzzy, sounds like you are making progress having seen him and not gone into that dream world that we do when we are obsessed.
    finally, I still think that for me this is linked to hormones -I spend half the month besotted and the other half rational and detached.  Only I really know it is happening, but it links to everything including desire, daydreaming and the ability to get on with my work!
    Keep in touch, April x

    Wed 13, May 2009 at 6:36pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I had my first session with my counselor today, and am very happy that I decided to do so. I realize I am starting down a long road, but I am excited to start the journey. Ivan, I think you are totally right about cutting the cord now. The girl I was seeing ran away when it came down to it, and she ran away from her last realtionship, and she would probably run away again. It is funny, I fully expect to hear from her in the future.. not sure when but I feel like her confidence is high right now, and she is very secure with herself... but I think all it is going to take is to date someone or a few people, realize that it is not easy, or to go through dating someone and a break up, and my phone will be ringing.
    I am still in a place where I want it to ring, but realize now that ours was a very unhealthy relationship based on things that are not sustainable in the light of day. Behind closed doors, where no one else sees, it is like you can be someone else, live out your fantasies, and all is well. My counselor said I changed the rules... because I put it on the table, and told her I am leaving and want her and only her, it changed the game. And I guess she is right. Either way, I still want to call her, talk to her, see her again.. though now I am being advised not to, which in the long run, is probably for the best.
    I am also in the same boat about trying to understand how I feel about my wife. She loves me, and has stood by me through all of my pulling away, being distant and not communicating. Perhaps I owe it to her and to myself to, for once, committ to trying. Put myself into it with the same passion and committment I was putting into the affair and see what happens. I mean, who knows... maybe I will like it. Maybe I will love it, love her. And maybe I wont. But, unless I committ to it, I will never really know.
    I am going to really miss the girl, tremendously, and will carry around some hope for a while, if not longer... but i have to be strong and focus on me, with no distractions. And she was a distraction... the best, most beautiful, amazing, sexiest distraction I have ever had, but in the end, a distraction.
    Why do you think we get so obsessed? I am really hoping to understand that better.
    Thanks everyone for your words of encouragement and insights. The internet is an amazing thing, and I am glad to have found this little room. Common sense tells me I should stop coming here to, to really focus on my life, but this has been helpful, and for now, I will keep checking in.
    Suzzy, glad to hear you are having a stronger day today. Take it one day at a time.

    Wed 13, May 2009 at 6:44pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Ivan here again.  DS, you echo my sentiments very closely.  Here's the thing.  I think we both need to realize that the chances of our Affair Partners (AP) coming back are slim.  And in any event (I'll at least speak from my perspective and you can let me know if it makes sense for you) the way the relationship was structured was unheatlhy.  It was never based on openness and love and seeing what it was like to be with that person on a regular basis with the shortcomings of a "real" relationship.  I had the full support and love of my wife and the excitement of the affair with all its passion and secrecy, etc.
    Now having said that, so much of what I felt was real.  Did she love me too?  Probably.  I waited and waited and never made a commitment.  Maybe it would have made a difference if I had said something earlier, maybe not.
    The thing is thought (and DS I think this goes for you too as well) I need to figure out if I am happy with my wife or not and that really has nothing to do with this AP.  I too have not been happy with myself and have not really allowed myself to figure out what I really wanted and what I really needed and whether I could have the passion I strive for and long for within my marriage because I also wasn't fully committed.  And maybe if it isn't there and I separate from my wife, then maybe in the future my AP would also be divorced or maybe not.  And DS I think the same goes for you, maybe someday in the future if you are single you could reconnect with her again.  Or maybe not.
    It all sounds so easy doesn't it?  The problem of course is that I am stuck with all these "what ifs" and also stuck with my memories.  Still, every restuarant, etc. reminds me.  And still I sit and wonder if she's thinking of me just as much or not.  If she hadn't gotten pregnant or if her mother hadn't told her never to talk of abortion or....
    Of course that was months ago.  I decided to try to cut the cord and not call her.  She called me once and told me that she really missed me and that she wished that things had been different, but it wasn't changing anything.  She was pregnant and staying in her marriage and I realized that I couldn't be in the position of watching her raise another man's child.
    SO I decided to move on and have my own family.  Of course now just like DS I am struggling to feel what I felt for my AP for my wife.  I am also struggling to try to figure out what it is that I really need in life and to realize that only me can make me happy.  The thing is, of course, once I do start realizing that, then I think, what if I've been looking to other people (i.e. my wife) to make me happy and now that I can make myself happy I'm with the wrong person and I really do want to be with someone more like my AP?  And then you start to wonder, "what if I had realized this before, I really could have made it work with my AP".
    So, for sure I can see how this obsessive thinking works!  I think for me I become obsessed because I am constantly looking to fill the void I feel with something from another person.  I become convinced that, when I feel that lacking, it can only be filled by X person.  Then I feel something amazing from X person and become convinced that I cannot breathe and cannot survive without that person because when they are removed from me that lacking then becomes this gaping hole because I had been so fulfilled when I had been with that person.
    Of course the trouble with that is that it will NEVER be a sufficient basis for a relationship.  The person (like April says) will eventually get suffocated by that neediness and you (or I) will never feel fulfilled because even if that person doesn't actually "leave" the relationship, they'll always not be giving enough, or not have enough space to come to you, or what have you.  I just know that for me, as much as I miss my AP (desperately at times) the structure of our relationship as it was was not workable.  I was too needy and too unhappy with myself.
    Oh, and BB, unfortunately yes, therapy is LOOONNNGGGGG and there is no one session, book, or pill to make it all better or to find the answer (I am reminded by my therapist of that almost every session!).  Keep at it and you'll be surprised at what you uncover about yourself.  But of course if you do find that magic one session or book, let me know- ha!

    Wed 13, May 2009 at 7:11pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    DS an Ivan
    You talk with so much sense and understanding. Its weird how we understand every conseivable angle and think through everyone elses (friends, wife and family) reaction yet we can not fathom out (yet) how to sort our own heads out. I suppose its because we spend every consious second thinking about our situation. I have seen the word obbsession used and as much as it scares me to admit it thats what it is. I feel the situation we find ourselves in (trapped) feeds that obsession over and over again. Lots of people in our situation get to certain point and just leave and get divorced (millions of them if you look at the stats). They know there is going to be initial pain but they do it anyway And if it works out great if not well they look back and feel they had no other option anyway..Problem solved.
    And as I type the above I think thats it i am doing it and guess what i typed that I changed my mind ha ha!!!!
    I had a fraught discussion with P (i will call her) this morning on the phone and I am due to speak in depth this evening. We have talked about my expectations if I leave (financially) and even I feel i am being unrealistic expecting to give the vast majority of income to my wife and kids. If i dont do this it will mean they will probably not be able to remain in the house and will have to live in a council house in not the best of ares. I just dont know how I would cope with the guilt of leaving and them losing the lovely house (whilst i am in living in a nice two bedroom modern apartment) . Obviously P understands I have to give some money but feels i am giving too much away (She is not forcing me by the way she is just been honest). Her feelings are that i will not be able to commit fully to our future because she can obviously see how difficult this is for me.
    I think she is now realising I am serious and is starting to be scared at the perceived baggage that will come with all of this. I now feel like you both did, that just as I am galvanising myself to leave she is starting to have second thoughts.
    I often come to a decision in my mind with clarity which lasts for about 5 seconds then BAM! I just realise how impossible it is and I am back to square one. For the first time in our 5 years together (after a few false dawns) I know the end (or beginning) is imminent and it is horrific.
    Crystal Ball anyone????

    Thu 14, May 2009 at 2:05pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Dear all,
    Wow, this is really growing. A reminder again; If this forum crashes, I will start one, Having an Affair but can't leave marriage PART 2.
    Finally I logged back in. I tried not to get obsessed with W so didn't really want to write or talk about him this way (like Suzzy, my bestfriends and family don't want to hear about W again and that is why I turned to this forum) but after being away from this site for a few weeks, I think about you guys and wonder how you all get on so here I am. This is like a support group and I chuckle at the thought of us sitting in coffee bar together discussing our same issues. :)
    Update on my end. W and I are still in contact now and again, still a bit of light flirting and a bit of "i love yous" but he didn't want to have anything to do with me if unless I am officially single/divorced. My situation has made it impossible for us to be together and he knew that, sensed that and wanted to stay away from that but at the same time, I am guessing he can't fully ignore me. We did try to ignore each other for a few weeks but towards the end, he usually sends a message through by a simple, "hows life on your end lately?" and that would start conversation again. But he is sensible enough to stay away from me as he "didn't want to be a third party" and "the cause of my break up". Fair enough.
    W did tell me he would love to see me again but only on that condition - I have to be officially single. I couldn't. I just couldn't. I think a few of you here can understand. In particular the guy who talked about Credit Crunch. Sorry, you didn't leave your initials. During the weeks when W didn't get in touch, I got on quite happily with my family/husband at home. Until W's message beeped through. Distraction. Yes. Affair is a distraction. I must admit despite trying to get on with my everyday life, W is always lurking at the back of my mind! Its also an obsession. I laughed at this guy who wrote about checking on facebook. That's so funny. But its true it can become an obsession.
    Suzzy, is your husband back home then? Go for the holiday and then see what happens. We also have a summer holiday booked as a family. The thing is, I doubt I can leave my husband. Everything is too right for me at home, as in comfort wise. I can't give it all up for nothing. W is not being very supportive, if only he is more involved with me and help me through this confusion or if he can promises me or gives me more security, then i might make decision a little easier.  But he wanted to stay physically away from me and didn't want to see me UNLESS I am single again, so he said. So I am dealing with this on my own. This has put me in a dead end position with him. Because I have to know where my relationship with him going before I consider leaving my otherwise good marriage. But from his point of view, he doesn't want to be a third party and become the cause of my break up.
    I am so pleased more men have written in here. It seems to me most of our affairs are not going to develop into a proper relationship for its own reasons/difficulties. Are we just wasting our time, wishing for something that is never going to happen?
    Please write again, I will check back again soon. Take care.

    Thu 14, May 2009 at 6:15pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All,
    Emily -good to see you here again -this is your baby afer all.
    I mentioned in a much earlier post that being on this blog [which it now seems to be] is actually a way of us feeling nearer to the one we are 'in love with' and yet, it does not seem to be stopping us moving on so it must be ok -I think.  Let's fce it -it keeps us OFF facebook!! Ha!
    Again, as mentioned earlier, I had an affair n the past and stayed with my marriage -in the end I had to tell my husband because the guy had another woman and betrayed me -she threatened to tell my husband.  Therefore, I came clean and confessed.  Following this my relationship with my husband took some real ups and downs, but, through the children's younger years -they are now both over 18, the relationship has been ok.  Point is that I would say to anyone YOU CAN COME BACK FROM THE BRINK and learn to love them again.  I really did go from wanting him dead to thinking I couldn't live without him. And he forgave me -realising that he had taken me fro granted.  Eventually my hurt and obsessional thoughts went -it took a longggg time as pointed out above, but it did come in the end. 
    Now, I realise that the irony is I am right back where I was -wondering if I should leave for the lover and whether he will leave for me.  So, what goes around comes around, but at least I can look back and think I gave the kids the best deal given that I was not soooo unhappy after all -once the affair guy was off the scene  an dlet's face it he was a disaster given he was seeing somebody else.  Just as some of you can begin to see the cracks in your 'perfect' lovers -which is sensible. 
    I think we are doing the right thing by thinking and talking about these issues -how many folks do just go and act on that impulse only to regret it at a later date?
    To several of you above -you have all mentioned seeing how it is in your relationship without the 'other' one interfering with our ways and lives. 
    Personaly, I am coming to the sad conclusion that even after all these years I am not suited to my husband because even before this guy it wasn't right.  Still a dimma now though...
    Emily -so wish we could do the coffee thing -it would make a good tv drama...
    April xx

    Thu 14, May 2009 at 6:51pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hello again.  Ivan here.  This board is a blessing and a curse isn't it?  For some reason I googled my AP today and also loggged into her Flickr account (to which I'm connected from before).  Big mistake.  Everything came flooding back (after I'd been doing so well).  Of course there were pictures of her husband and her trips and everything and other photos she'd taken which she showed me before.
    Its so hard to believe you were once so close and saw each other every day.  I really want to pick up the phone and hear her say that she made the right decision to stay and have her husband's baby and that she's happy having a family with him and that she doesn't think of us together.  The last time she called me she told me she missed me and that she wished things were different.  Maybe I need to hear her say she's officially moved on for good in her head.  Maybe THEN I can move on?
    Or maybe its all stupid and I'm just fooling myself.  I was the one who told DS we needed to cut the cord right?  Hehe.  DS, I hope you don't wind up where I am!
    By the way, DS, I wanted to ask, I think I recall you saying that you had been having an affair for a year and half right?  Why didn't you leave before?  What was stopping you?  For me, it was 2 years and I didn't tell her to leave.  I didn't (couldn't) say I want to be with you 100% forever.  I too was looking for my happiness elsewhere instead of inside myself.  I was too needy (am?) with others and not strong enough inside myself.  Of course I was/am feeling major guilt as well.  I am sure that from her perspective, she is like Suzzy.  Why would she leave her marriage and give everything up if I didn't make it clear that I would be there and make it clear SOONER?
    I'm so angry she made the choice she did and yet I understand it and yet I can't move on and yet....
    And like DS I keep expecting her to call me and tell me she misses me and that she's going through the same thing that I am and checks me out on the web and keeps thinking about me.  Its wierd right, that we keep expecting them to call?  I don't know what it is for me.  Is it narcassism?  I mean, I don't think so.  I just find it so hard to believe that I feel (still) this amazing connection and she doesn't.
    BB- Have you had a discussion again with P?  How's it going for you?
    Damn, someone take this computer away from me!  Okay, so today was a not so good day.  Next please.  Ha!

    Thu 14, May 2009 at 6:52pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    ps I really do need a new keyboard... sorry!
    Also -to the guy above who mentioned being needy -yes absolutely a turn off- we have to get over needing the other to begin to recover and see the reality of the situation.  And it is so unattractive -what a subtle difference there seems to be between love and obsession, and wanting and needyiness...  

    Thu 14, May 2009 at 6:59pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All
    BB Here..
    Ivan - Yes I had a 2 hour 'chat' with P earlier this evening. Very difficult and we seem to sway from one decision to the other. She is being very honest and pragmatic and saying that she feels she will be battling with my guilt/concience and it would put a real presure on our future. I agreed with her that it is going to be tough but surely after all we have been through 'love will conquer all'. The funny thing is when she starts agreeing with me and saying yes lets take the gamble, I start to worry about the decision then??? Crazy!!!!
    Ivan one of my issues with the situation (one of many - ha) is that early in our relationship she seperated from her husband. Which was good for our relationship at the time however it leaves me sick to the stomach thinking about when she meets somebody new if we are not together. I often think I would not find this half as bad if she was going back to her husband because it would be a loveless marriage (Doesnt that sound terrible). I do truly love her and I know True Love means that if you cant be with that person you should want them to be happy but I do struggle with that and it hurts me to say it.
    Anyway she is away for 2 days now and we have promised each other a decision when she gets back and hand on heart my gut feeling says I wont do it. Its breaking my heart. I just cant see how I can function without her in my life and yet ........
    Its the thought that not only am I giving up my lover but she is genuinly my best friend. I am also giving up those goosebumps I get every time I see her (still). God bless her she has been with me for 5 years now and she just needs to know. And I totally understand. Totally. But I am completely and utterly stuck.
    Emily,April - Its also nice to read your comments and it is some comfort to realise we are all in or have been in similar situations. Sorry if I just bwriting about me at the moment its just that I am pretty consumed by it at the moment for obvious reasons (clock ticking!)
    I think we are all hoping one of us Posts something really positive saying that everything will be okay and it all turned out great for everyone concerned. Here hoping eh guys. Lets hope we all get there.
    I will keep you posted.

    Thu 14, May 2009 at 7:38pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Dear all again
    You guys made me laughed. I was having a mixed emotion day but thanks to your post/support, i felt better knowing I am not the only one going through this. W contacted me yesterday and we ended up having hours of chat and it soon led on to lustful topics. I've decided to come clean and told him yes i do indeed love him. All along, I didn't really made it clear to him, I was kind of playing mind games. But this time i thought if i made it clear, at least if things dont work out, i dont regret thinking, "is it because he doesnt know how i actually felt for him?" So sod it, i decided to admit i do love him.  He asked to see me again next week. I have somehow agreed.
    However i then went to bed having sleepless night. I felt cross with myself for doing so well without him and then now I have given in again. I was doing a "happy family" thing for the last few months (although W was on my mind every minute) but now I have caved in again. I do want to see him but I am not overly thrilled. But I thought lets do it again and see this time where it might take us to.
    To be honest, if it doesnt work this time, I am going to end it all for good. It will be proven that its time-wasting and a major distracton/destruction/stress that I don't need. So yes i like to see him just once and see what will happen. He will have to prove to me he is truly in love with me too and seriously want to map a future together. I know its too much for him - a bachelor to take on me and my young kids. Buf as a responsible mum, I can't give up my marriage for playful fling. W got to prove to me its a serious/long lasting thing to make me "consider".
    My husband is wonderful. April, thank you so much for writing. It really helps to hear from your experience. However, its quite sad to think we stay on with someone whom we have no passion with any more. I dont think i have the passion for my husband as I do have for W. However I do care for my husband but not in a passionate way. Does anyone know what I am talking about?
    Ivan, you are so funny. I didn't know guys can stalk on websites too! I do stalk on W on his social page and google him and the "potential rivals/girls" on the net to find out or check out their photos. I thought I am a bit like an obsessive stalker and I felt a bit sad for myself! So I am not the only one!
    BB, you are welcome to talk about yourself and your issues. This is why we are here. To let it out. It does help to unload, doesn't it?
    Write again, all.

    Fri 15, May 2009 at 1:04pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I know exactly what you mean about caring for your husband but there being something missing. I care deeplyfor my wife I really do its just that I am not in love with her. She also (like your husband) is a wondeful person and a great mum but 'IT' (whatever that is) is just not there. Can i spend the rest of my life like that. I probably will but I know I shouldnt!!! God this frustrating!!!
    It is interesting to see that you have been doing the family thing and yet still every second thinking of W. That is exactly how I fear I will be if I dont find the strength to leave. Imagine that scenario for ever... its horrifying yet that is what I am potentially what I am doing to myself (and you also)
    There are so many side issues to deal with as well (apart from the obvious wife and children) there is the family and friends and believe me it will createa mini atomic bomb!! And I/We will be at the centre of it. I do worry about there reactions. My father being at the top of my list as he is 77 and very old school. he loves his grandchildren and my wife immensely. She treats him like her own Dad. My counsillor says I have no ownership of peoples reactions or perceptions and he is right. He also states that (apart from our close family) people will hear the news, talk about it for a bit and then will ask whats for lunch?
    I feel I am over the hurdle of peoples reactions bit now as I feel so low I could not give 2 hoots what people think. However I do care what my wife and kids think and I am afraid that is not going to be nice.
    Unless you have been in this position (like us) you could not possibly understand the turmoil. I hope I manage to do it so I can come on the board and pour my heart out to you guys and give you all an insight into the next step...
    Take care everyone .. will post soon... Wish me luck

    Fri 15, May 2009 at 2:13pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Oh my God!  Emily, its like you are reading my mind!  I feel exactly like you.  I miss that passion I had with J SO much.  Its like I'm starving without it.  I feel I have been so horrific to my wife and I am really now trying to be much kinder and loving and actually succeeding to a certain degree.  I think I respect her more.  But at the same time I miss that passion.  Its not like for me we are one of those couples who had this wonderful passion when we got married and it just faded and then I had an affair and realized how much I loved my wife and reignited that passion.  I unfortunately never had it from the beginning.  The way I felt with J is a way I never felt with my wife. 
    And yes I know that everyone says that it is because of the affair and that it was risque and the secrecy was so alluring.  I am sure that it part of it, but not really.  I want to be with ONE woman- I know that.  I want to actually be compassionate and kind, but I want PASSION!  I want to look at my wife every day and think "jesus, she's sexy".  I know that every guy checks women out and I am no exception.  But I actually thought that if I was with J I wouldn't ever cheat on her because the chemistry was so strong.  Isn't that horrible?
    I just wish there was a way to move on from this and these memories.  I mean its not like she's sitting around on some website pining for me.  Sigh.
    I am worried though about trying to get through life without this passion.  I think I've been craving it for my whole marriage (well, I know I have).  And I have agreed with all of the comments about how we need to make ourselves happy first and find out for ourselves what we really need before we can look to others, but that also frightens me because- what if I find out that I really DO need that passion and I just can't get it in my marriage?
    BB, sounds like you know exactly where I'm (and Emily) coming from.  And your counselor sounds a lot like mine (or probably like what all of them would say).  And of course we have no control over other people's reactions and yes, they'd talk and then move on, but that doesn't tell us HOW to actually do this.  I'm sure like me, you would feel absolutely AWFUL.  And like you, my relatives are so fond of my wife and now her sister has invited my family to her wedding and....and...
    And I keep thinking, if this is really how I felt, then why didn't I just go for it with J?  We had a great opportunity before either of us had kids, we both felt the same way (I thought?).  I just have to keep realizing that I can't go back and I simply couldn't have at that time because of so many reasons.  And that it wouldn't have worked because I was latching on to her looking for my happiness...
    Emily- if W makes you believe that he loves you and will be there for you, will that make you leave your marriage?  I am sure that I never did that for J enough for J, even though I told her when she came back that I would.  I guess my inaction over two years made her doubt me.  When I told her that she never really made me believe 100% either, she said "yes, but you're the man".  I guess I was weak and scared and guilty, and...
    Of cours now I'm stuck in this inbetween state.  She's gone, but I can't move on and therefore can't put 100% of my focus on my wife where I should have had it all along.  Like someone (I think DS?) said, how can we really see if we aren't fully committed?
    Oh, and Emily, yeah, unfortunately guys "stalk" too!  I'd been doing really well, but then once I logged back in here to see how everyone was doing, it all came rushing back and I realized I hadn't really moved very far along.
    Alright enough rambling.  BB, good luck and keep us informed!

    Fri 15, May 2009 at 6:47pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Oops, sorry, above is from IVAN.

    Fri 15, May 2009 at 6:48pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Ivan - Just read your above and I agree with every single word. I havent got much time to reply in full but reading it was like looking at a mirror image of myself.
    I am getting closer, however what seems to be my final hurdle is that money is a big big issue now. I started my business about 6yrs ago and from being employed earning an average wage I started earning very good money and being my own boss and in regards to my business plan things were looking very rosy indeed. So instead of taking things a step at a time I got the big house with the big mortgage and also the big credit cards to go with it...(unfortunately my wife had always voiced her concerns but trusted me that evrything was going to be ok. TRUSTED!! (when i look back that all may have been to stop me addressing the real issues in my life marriage)
    To say the financial rug has been pulled from me is an understatement so you can imagine the turmoil I am faced with.
    I will obviously do my upmost to help, however I will feel that I will be abandoning them at a terrible time. And it really really is not her fault. Bad day sorry guys....

    Sat 16, May 2009 at 8:10am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hey all,
    Passion! Well thats what this is all about really. P made me feel soo alive, soo wanted. Never got or get this from my husband. Just as Ivan and emily say. P made me feel like the most desired person on earth.
    Why cant we have this in our day to day relationships. Is it the daily grind that prevents this? for me, it was never there but for others probably, certainly for P it was at the start of his relationship with his wife.
    Is it so wrong to want to feel desired? The other bloke who had been texting me, got in contact again this week. as I said before, never had this when I was single!!! Tempting but really do not need any more complications in my life!
    Relations at home not good. Yes emily he is back home but more and more think its not what I want. I do care about him, but .... no spark no passion. Hes just... well there. He is a good man and a great dad and lets face it, he has stood by me despite my affair and the shit that followed P betraying me, so he does have strength. Its just... I want more. I want a man who I dont know, would fight for me, grab me and love me with all the desire in the world and I would return this. I had this with P but not really real. affairs arent are they.
    Where do we all go from here? Perhaps we should all meet up and ... oh well
    Suzzy x

    Sat 16, May 2009 at 4:59pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All,
    I wonder if we are often confused about love -as if it is one thing, when in fact it is something different for each person in our lives.  I love my husband, and I am quite 'in love' with my lover. 
    I think that we are mostly sensible types on here as we can see this difference -hence the reason for not jumping ship straight away.  I know we are talking of passion -and that is so heady and addictive, but it does go in the end to some extent -don't you think? 
    A thought just occured to me that I actually left my first husband for my 2nd husband!!  [It was nearly 25 years ago -married young!] I actually think that I did have that passion with the 2nd/current -I could barely look at him without feeling faint and I still even fancy him a bit sometimes -and sex can actually be pretty hot! BUT, I don't think I like him or want to spend time with him -we bicker and I feel resentful.  I think I spotted it very early in the relationship but felt I couldn't leave and then we had kids etc... 
    What I am trying to say is beware of that heady passion -you want something sustainable in a relationship.  My lover is more extrovert, wants to please me, has conversations, -is not on the autistic spectrum!! BUT not sure if I would think that in ten years? Perhaps I would feel just as I do now... will I be cheating on him?  -and god knows I don't want to -really.  Perhaps I am just someone who is never satisfied?
    It would be a better world if we had no jealousy and we could find that passion and keep the partner and it all be ok.  -A bit like France according to a friend of mine... 
    BB/Ivan/AKS/DS/other men -as Suzzy and Emily say, it is good to have a balance of gender -I used to think only women felt like this and really enjoy everyone's input
    April xxx

    Sat 16, May 2009 at 5:33pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    I am beginning to really believe, not just say, that alot of us are just not programmed to e with one person for all our lives. just think back say, 50  years or more. People simply did not live til the ages we do now. Sometimes not much into their 40 ies. So then it was not so much of an issue though I am sure for some it was.
    i just can not see myself with my husband for much longer even though I love him on a level - too much wine again DS!!!! White of course!.
    At the moment I am living for my night out with good girl friends next week, lots of beer and flirting I hope. I know my marriage is coming to an end, it just will be a long dragged out affair(so poor choice of word!) as I need to be stronger and ..............have a bloodly job!
    I know what you are saying April, the problem is I didnt have the passion as with P with my husband even at the start - a point I have unfortunately shared with him ! - whoops.
    Now before I drivel on more - goodnight all.
    Suzzy x
    Ps I often wonder what all our real names are.......... again we live in a bubble!!!

    Sat 16, May 2009 at 8:48pm
  • Eyes_068 loobyloo Flag

    Right i am going to put the cat amongst the pigeons here.
    I have posted a few times on this thread right at the begining and I am so surprised this is still going, all you lot seem to talk about is yourselves and how your all so hard done by cos your with the wrong person blah blah blah.
    No-one is giving anyone any advice on how to deal with their situation, you all talk about what wine your drinking etc etc.  WAKE UP this is the real world.  If your not happy in your marriages then its not fair for your wives/husbands living a half life with someone that doesnt truely love them.  Move out and let them find someone who will love and adore them.  Ok it will be hard for them to begin with but they will see you for what you are eventually and if you cant deal with that then you shouldnt have had the affair in the first place or got married to the person your married to.
    I know this all seems terribly black and white and i know that we cant help who we fall for but none of you are being fair to the people that are going to be hurt the most.  Stop thinking about yourselves for once in your lifes and do the right thing, either put 100% into your marriages or move on, get out, walk away.  Lets face it most of you are cowards, cos you are all settling for second best rather than facing the big bad world alone.  The decision to stay in the marriage shouldnt be yours anyway, it should be your spouses, you cheated and lied but you think that you are doing them a favour by staying with them!  Big egos.
    I agree with suzzy tho, i dont believe that we are ever really truely meant to be with one person for the rest of our lives but its how we deal with ending one and starting another.  I am separated from my husband and I have to wait 2 years before i can divorce him, the same should be for marriage, you dont have to wait 2 years for that, you can meet someone and marry them that same day if that suits.  If we had to wait to get married i dont think half of marriages would actually take place.
    Sorry just really angry that you are using this site to justify or wallow in your own pile of poo, that you created.  I have no sympathy for you at all.
    I just hope that you lot can finally do the right thing and admin gets round to deleting this sad thread.

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 8:16am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Er, to LLoo above,
    I think that you are way out of order here.  Firstly, the number of posts and the fact that we come back to it shows it is WORKING as a site.  And, we really do move on from where we were and get comfort from sharing. 
    Secondly, your black and white world is how we would like it to be!  But, for whatever reasons it just is not.  IF we could do that - 'move on...walk away...' we would have done it.  I think that we are thinking people, who care and do not want to spoil things for our children or spouses without being sure it is the right thing to do. 
    Quite frankly, it is refreshing to be amongst company that does not judge, but tries to work it out.  If we wanted moral guidance we could go to a church or a different site. 
    Finally, if you really find this 'pile of poo' so offensive it might be best to avoid it in the future! Your own distaste should not prevent us from using it!
    Out of interest if admin are reading this do you have a view on the way we are using this site?

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 9:54am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Never thought I would see the day but I agree with looby here! I am fed up with clicking on latest activity and this thread coming up day in day out. You are all selfish and we are all capable of being homest and trustworthy, it is certainly not a nice trait to gloat about being untrustworthy and deceitful, something that I think has happened on this thread lately.
    You may not be able to control who you fall in love with, but you are certainly able to be in control of your actions. You do not have to start an affair because you are unhappy! You can walk away, although the women on this thread seem to want comittment from the affair men firat, something that is almost laughable as most are married men and most will never leave their woves for you.
    I think there needs to e sense of GROW UP, the lot of you! Make plans and leave your spouses, be a kinder person and stop deceiving them

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 10:55am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    The general run of the dialogue here is sycophantic in my opinion; self satisfied and self indulgent...
    The sad thing here for me Loob is that there is a lack of courage with respect to self-honesty and honesty to partners, so to me all I get is the sense that is a gossip circle and only certain kinds of self fulfilling posts will be 'invited'.As to whether partners are for life is too convenient a generalisation to explore really- it is not really a philosophical, social or existential question. It is just a rationalisation.
    I get a kind of sick feeling when I look at the trend of thoughts here because I think the protagonists are living a life that I used to consider normal, which in the end made me desperately lonely and depressed, and made me realise that I was deeply self deluded.
    I dont really think it matters too much if this article lives in its alternate reality here as there are alot of things to learn from it. Cautionary stuff...
    Help, opinions and advice is not really wanted or appreciated in my opinion Loob, and if you read the info on the site, it becomes crystal clear that these ppl are not trying to 'talk it out' or 'work it out', and that there is little reference or relevance

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 11:39am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    The general run of the dialogue here is sycophantic in my opinion; self satisfied and self indulgent...
    The sad thing here for me Loob is that there is a lack of courage with respect to self-honesty and honesty to partners, so to me all I get is the sense that is a gossip circle and only certain kinds of self fulfilling posts will be 'invited'.As to whether partners are for life is too convenient a generalisation to explore really- it is not really a philosophical, social or existential question. It is just a rationalisation.
    I get a kind of sick feeling when I look at the trend of thoughts here because I think the protagonists are living a life that I used to consider normal, which in the end made me desperately lonely and depressed, and made me realise that I was deeply self deluded.
    I dont really think it matters too much if this article lives in its alternate reality here as there are alot of things to learn from it. Cautionary stuff...
    Help, opinions and advice is not really wanted or appreciated in my opinion Loob, and if you read the info on the site, it becomes crystal clear that these ppl are not trying to 'talk it out' or 'work it out', and that there is little reference or relevance to the process. They arent intersted nor do they care what I think, so why should I? I wish them love and happiness even though I sometimes shook  They do not come into the mainstream of dialogue and work the site, they just wallow and rationalise and self-pity mostly. 

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 11:39am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    The general run of the dialogue here is sycophantic in my opinion; self satisfied and self indulgent...
    The sad thing here for me Loob is that there is a lack of courage with respect to self-honesty and honesty to partners, so to me all I get is the sense that is a gossip circle and only certain kinds of self fulfilling posts will be 'invited'.As to whether partners are for life is too convenient a generalisation to explore really- it is not really a philosophical, social or existential question. It is just a rationalisation.
    I get a kind of sick feeling when I look at the trend of thoughts here because I think the protagonists are living a life that I used to consider normal, which in the end made me desperately lonely and depressed, and made me realise that I was deeply self deluded.
    I dont really think it matters too much if this article lives in its alternate reality here as there are alot of things to learn from it. Cautionary stuff...
    Help, opinions and advice is not really wanted or appreciated in my opinion Loob, and if you read the info on the site, it becomes crystal clear that these ppl are not trying to 'talk it out' or 'work it out', and that there is little reference or relevance to the process. They arent intersted nor do they care what I think, so why should I? I wish them love and happiness even though I sometimes shook my  They do not come into the mainstream of dialogue and work the site, they just wallow and rationalise and self-pity mostly. 

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 11:39am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    (something weird happened to my laptop just then)
    Yeah, I was saying I used to try to empathise, understand and relate, but as you probably know, you cant get through to some ppl as sometimes they just become too self obsessed and myopic.
    To the two ladies who use this article- I dont judge you thinking you are bad for having an affair, but my judgement says that your lack of communication with your partners and your lack of appropriate boundaries is ethically questionable- particularly the school yard flirting etc.

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 11:46am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    P.S. Sorry about the posting clutter...

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 11:52am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    We've heard this all before! Yes we should get out etc etc but it really is not that easy. Watched 'Four Weddings and a funeral' last night and it really made me think. All thoses vows - yes i betrayed them and myself for that matter.
    I know, as do the others here, what we should be doing but the strength is lacking. We really ARE NOT BAD people - simply confused individuals who want to be happy but the path to this is blurred. It would be great if we could be so black and white - life is not like that though.
    April and myself certainly gain strength from talking our situations out - I am, myself feeling stronger each day - though do have set backs. I know one day soon I will feel ready to break free but until then the support and friendship (with out judgement) this thread provides, gives  me the strength to face each day. Without it I would be lost.
    If you dont like our thread - KEEP OUT of it. No one forces you to read it!
    Suzzy x

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 3:12pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    sillysuzzzy you are just not getting it, you are BAD PEOPLE!!!!! It is so childish and absolutely pathetic to say we are "confused", no you are just gutless and dont want to be left on your own. Life is as black or white as you want it to be. You are nasty people who are betraying not only your partner's, but your children friends and family! How can you think so much of yourselves? Dave angel is a legend he hits the nail right on the head every single time. This has no become a self-fulfilling prophecy!
    KEEP OUT again is such a childish pathetic comment. Your post absolutely amazes me, but my heart just sinks for the poor individulas that are married to you!

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 4:04pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    This thread started ages ago, many people have contributed, many have moved on, some then come back weeks later, and if you read the posts you would see that people really have made major changes.  Suzzy, for instance has stopped the affair, split, her husband knows about things, she has got back together and is still unsure.  How you can judge someone in such turmoil is beyond me. 
    I would like to ask the admin team once more for an opinion on the use of the site because I do  not want to be judged for airing my views and offering support.  Personally, posts such as the above feel abusive and I do not feel they are in line with the ethos of this site.
    If the thread has got too long, then the admin team need to deal with it as those who are trying to sort out such turmoil in their lives should not have to cope with abusive comments such as the one above. 

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 5:03pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    That is so not an abusive post, you are mad if you think it is. It is a personal opinion, that on a site like this if you post you have to take the positive and negative comments!

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 5:25pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    What are your issues -did someone leave you because they were having an affair?  Perhaps you need answers and some help?  If so, we can support you, just don't abuse or judge those posting here.

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 7:27pm
  • Eyes_068 loobyloo Flag

    OMG i said i was going to set the cat amongst the pigeons but i didnt think this would happen.
    I am not saying that you are all bad people, far from it but what i am saying is that you are all wallowing in your own sadness and not thinking of the actual people who are going to get hurt in all the mess that you have created.
    April - Suzzy didnt end her affair, the bloke she was seeing ended it because he was putting his marriage and kids first and her marriage only collasped cos her husband found out about it so i wouldnt be so quick to defend unless you have read all the above posts.  That aside i am not here to judge people just getting bored of this thread.  There are genuine people on here looking for advice on matters far more worthy than this one.
    Also as the above poster said, you have to take the rough with the smooth, not everyone is going to agree with you and you shouldnt be having a go at the ones that dont, we are all entitled to an opinion and some of us have stronger morals than others.  You can justify your affairs all you like but at the end of the day it comes to a straight decision,  have an affair or not!  No one just walks into an affair its not as simple as that.  You are all reaping what you have sowed and I have no sympathy for any of you.
    Just stop using this site to whinge and whine about how hard done by you all are.

    Sun 17, May 2009 at 7:52pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    April you are so deluded! No one has left me or had an affair. I am merely expressing my personal opinion what this site is here for. Only wanting the comments that support you in what you are doing is so shallow. It is negative and positive comments that allow us to make an informed decision.
    There is a little saying I have always had in my head "What goes around, comes around". You will all end up lonely people if you carry on in life like you are, and it will be nothing more than you all deserve!

    Mon 18, May 2009 at 7:30am
  • User-anonymous Rachel Flag

    I would like to confirm that this thread will not be closed but will continue for as long as you are finding it a useful and supportive space to work in.The length of the thread can make it difficult to navigate so it may be helpful to remind you that you can use ctrl+end to take you to the most recent comment and cntl+home to take you back to the original posting.
    The T&C of the site are clear that language which restricts or inhibits the use and enjoyment of the site is not acceptable, however whilst some of the comments may be seen as challenging or even negative, they are balanced by supportive and postive comments - this has always been a strong feature of this thread.
    Those who are contributing to this thread may find it helpful to look at some of the material in the "check it out" section including the section on relationship insights and particularly which has proved helpful to many.

    Mon 18, May 2009 at 7:35am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    without wanting to go on, please note that my husband found out about me having an affair because I TOLD HIM - the part P contributed was telling my h it was him I was having an affair with. My husband and I had already begun relate before P decided to tell his wife, a fact that he could not handle - did not understand why I wanted to try with my marriage and panicked that I would reveal his part. So not quite as you put it.

    Mon 18, May 2009 at 7:45am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I have just read the latest comments and for what its worth you make some valid points. Everyone is entilted to their opinion. What I will say is that far from being DELUDED I think the majority on here are fully aware of the consequences of their actions. In a perfect world we would have tried to address our issues in our marriage and left BEFORE we started an affair and lets face it that is the hounourable and just thing to do.
    I personally crossed the line and found what I have been craving. I am fully aware of the devastation MY actions will/have caused to my wife, my children, my family and friends and to MYSELF. However I (and I would guess most of us on here) are not after sympathy. We are human, flawed maybe, but human all the same. I honestly hand on heart wish I had the skills to deal with such strong emotions in such a black and white way. We are obviously wired differently to yourselves and we are trying to find the way out of this hell we find ourselves in.
    Believe me I am not after sympathy but it is helpful to come in here and discuss life changing issues with people who are in the same/similar position.
    I have to say though you are obviously entilted to your opinion, however once you have let your opinion be known I have to question your intentions of entering into a debate on a thread that really (by your own admission) is foreign to you.
    April and Suzzy I suggest that rather than getting into a debate with them we continue to discuss our Issues between ourselves.
    Seeing P tonight.

    Mon 18, May 2009 at 8:40am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    'Ctrl end'- good advice...
    Yes, A major concern...all the significant others involved in these affairs... but really for me it is mostly about  You, my fellow users who log in and spill your sorrows and triumphs, Your hopes and fears...
    As is so oft said here,  we are 'following our passion' when we have an affair...
     But what EXACTLY is this kind of 'passion', and from whence does it come? The selfsame passion that leads us into unfulfilling marriages, and then on- beyond all sense, honour and self control- into the arms of an other?
    My best guess? It is Mother Natures urge working through You... plain and simple.
     And You (as have I) are being driven to sow oats- but dont like the crop you reap (a Daniel Johns).
    And oft here, sometimes flippantly and arrogantly, you turn your nose up and refuse to eat your own home-grown fruits- as does a spoiled child who sees fatter and juicier fruits over the fence on someone elses tree, but doesnt know the secrets, hard work and 'passion' involved in growing them...
    I was so like this once- and my parents set the mould perfectly for this type of journey so well.... Even though I knew young that it wasnt right for me, I folowed their pattern...
    None of you- in my opinion- were ready for marriage, nor understood its real purpose- as you hadnt explored yourselves, your loved ones and your wayward drives deeply enough- and therefore your vows were hollow, your words- barren.
     Apparently hollow and poorly considered (Vegas) vows are on the rise, same as divorce...
    My truth as far as I see it? You are in a conflict with Mother Nature and your own Humanity i.e. a life driven by 'passion', and the conflicting desire to commit to raising a family and finding true deep and lasting intimacy with your partners. 
    I would challenge any of you (perhaps the same as you challenge your children to grow character and discernment) to reflect on your vows in relation to these points and tell me where you stood as you remember this time...and what your views and strongest memories were...
     I personally think this self confrontation is what you might need more of right now; so, instead of worrying about being judged, p'raps you might then practice a goodly bit of self-judgement instead... (humbly and honestly learning to understand, correct, accept and eventually embrace yourself).
    I question your courage, because I feel it is my duty to ask you to look in the mirror armed with all the facts and then look at your partner with the self-honesty and strength to ask yourselves whether you have really given your vows and yours/their hopes and dreams their due gravitas and honour...
     Did you question your love with all the facts before you took the plunge? (I read a real eye opener recently called 'The Five Secrets to A Loving Rerlationship.)
    I admit wholeheartedly- and unashamedly (only because I saw my flaws and had the courage to face them and change)- that I too have done similar things that you all have done in the past....
     At a certain point, in order to be true and real to myself- and my beautiful and lovely wife , I was faced with 'The Dillemma"- that I had to do a lot of soul searching and explore and confront myself and my 'nature'. (She is such a brave woman- she fixed me where I was broken and made me whole again through a love that truly humbles me every day...ra ra...)  
     And come on ppl, whether it is the war in Iraq or plastic bags,  we ALL 'judge'. So please stop all the self righteous 'dont judge' nonsense- I mean, who really believes for one second that they dont judge? Whoever you are, I dare you to refute this...It is just prattle really... all are entitled to air their views or judgements- or whatever you wanna call it- whether black and white, grey, varied or mud. (The whole 'BAD' thing is a little harsh though really- in my humble...)
    This is a public forum, and the sense that some have on this post of 'exclusivity' is in my opinion the thing that others want to attack most- and for good reason- because it subtly hides a sense of superiority and arrogance and ultimately defeats the 'public' purpose. (Moral dogmatism is another biggie...)
     We all have rights to air our views and understandings, true, but if your judgement is too harsh, is sexist, racist, misogynistic or a personal attack without any real constructive purpose, you will be- rightly- deleted. And fair enough... but if you are spoiled, a snob, are selfish, arrogant, what then? We all have to learn to allow wholeheartedly others to air their views and flaws and most importantly- accept others right to their views...and be challenged as to whether we might not only 'accept' them, but even possibly to 'learn', as is the mission of this site...
    I sit here in my own shoes and see that I have lived a life that was not my own once. Sadly true. I was a slave to biology and chained to fears (I keep seeing the "Devil" card in the Tarot), and I have had many affairs because of it.
     I have done all the things others here have done, and for the life of me could not understand or control my passions and desires. (Isnt that why you logged on- back whenever?)
    I was sssooo a slave to my passions when I was younger and happily so, but as I changed and wanted different things from a partner, I realised that I was at war with myself- the part that was driven and enslaved by 'desire' and 'passions'- a part of me that I began to dislike and hate, a part that that would gladly kill trust and loyalty, turn on its own children, kill intimacy and commitment, and that undermined a depth of passion and real wisdom through experience that I knew had to exist for me not to be a 'hollow man'.
    Dont think that I dont care about you, or that if you werent sitting in front of me, I wouldnt say exactly what I am saying right now if you were as a 'real friend'- it happens alot because there are alot of ppl struggling for answers that others have figured out. It is this courage to tell the truth that saved my once sorry confused and wallowing ass- real friends saying 'you are a slave' and 'loves fool' and wake up to yourself'.
    ... Also, another thing that upsets others with this article is the backslapping and 'totally'-ing and 'yes'-ing- a kind of Mutual Admiration "Club" mentality which defeats some of you, and your resolve...
    I myself have searched for a partner over the years that would compensate for my lack of awareness by becoming a moral relativist, a libertine, and worst of all a crafty liar. All I got out of distorting my real self in my time of enslavement was to learn to allow ugly qualities to reside and work through me. It was a mistake that I couldnt possibly avoid as I had no tools or knowledge. Can you blame me if I dont want you to have to suffer that? That is my biggest fear for you all here...
    So if you judge me and say I am being harsh on some of you, I know in my heart that it is a dialogue you need to hear. Very few of you know yourselves enough in relationships and what you want from them as much you claim you do, and I believe you need to hear words that draw a line in the sand.
     And make no mistake- everyone is judging you, except the ones who are 'currently' enmired in the same transgressions, and when you have resolved to love more truly and deeply you will too judge others again- but hopefully with real empathy that is willing to take risks and confront the deeper realities.
     Dont think you can escape a reckoning either, because frankly it is the same law of mother nature, but slightly different- it is just the one for 'men and women' instead of 'boys and girls'. Every day the clock ticks and draws you closer...
     Women and Men learn to know these drives and can 'use' them to good and lasting effect, boys and girls are 'used' and driven madly hither and thither as in 'A Midsummer Nights Dream' not knowing their heads from their tails...
    Yes, love is grand- a childish love and a mature love both- so those of you who refuse to believe love is bigger, can travel farther, and is more noble than you presently can envision...well then, perhaps you are just 'what you are'- loves lost ones...
    Safe travels,
    P.S. Though we all KNOW we have done 'bad', there is not one person here who is "BAD". This I know...

    Mon 18, May 2009 at 2:03pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    To Daveangel,
    Do you believe in the Tarot cards then? Only had them read recently and wondered on your take?

    Mon 18, May 2009 at 2:45pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    Believe? My take? On what? Whether they are real? umm...
    I would need to see the spread if I was to read them and try to comprehend- but the basic premise is that the cards represent universal 'archetypes' and 'drives' which are like commonly shared behaviours, tests, dillemmas, ideals, evils, values, virtues, laws etc...
    I will example it-
    'The Lovers' - a naked man and a woman holding hands standing in a garden with a sun in the background.
    'The Devil' - a man and a woman in a cave chained to an alabaster altar whereupon the devil (a goaty looking half-man) is enthroned.
    These are juxtaposed here to help signify the main tarotic representations of the archetypal idea of relationships.
    There are four basic types of (minor arcana) drives which lead through the suits to consummate the dynamics of relationships in relation to our inner development and outer questing in life...
    There are 21 Universal Drives or Laws which are fated- meaning we all must obey necessity- i.e. birth, death, marriage (to something), feminity, masculinity, evil, good, mystery, fate, god, cycles, virtues, creativity, love ra ra..
    If it holds a plausible semblance of meaning that sits with me, then I will accept it. Occult or Mystic tarot is an evil that you should run fast from as if it were a cult...
     One critical thing with the tarot is that is dependant on the powers of the reader- 'objectivity' and 'acquired knowledge' of the reader are prime examples...
     Another is that it is non-rational (as far as we usually define it)- this means that a rational world/person usually fears and attacks it. This is conditioned behaviour in most ppl and cannot be reasoned out or addressed mostly...
    Lastly its usage can often lead to a over generalist and non-present type of psychological dependancy (like 'letting god fix everyrything' delusions), and a hierarchical approach to communication. What this means is that ppl working with  this type of paradigm can become dysfunctional in relation to talking face to face, working out issues together, being emotionally in the moment, being spontaneous, developing perception in the moment- killer stuff really.
    So if you want it to fix stuff, then you would do better reading introductory psychology (I am not a fan of shrinks- but I like counsellors) or getting a few books on relationships from the library in my opinion.
    (Part of comment deleted by member of Talk it Out Team as contravenes para 3.1.7 of Terms and conditions of use of the site.)

    Mon 18, May 2009 at 3:51pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi to All,
    Thank you to the admin team for responding and confirming that the posting is not about to be deleted -I asked this because a couple of days ago a post suggested that it should be terminated and it bothered me, because I had not seen this as a forum to 'please' casual readers looking for a soap opera.
    Although 'abusive' language might be a strong term, being called 'BAD PEOPLE' is, as Dave A has pointed out, a step too far.  I recognise that we have to take the rough with the smooth, and I very much welcome debate and critical analysis.  While it may seem trite to say 'do not judge' I retain the right to say this -it is shallow to come on here, read the posts and add a comment that tells us we are 'bad'!  
    To BB, thank you for your intelligent response -this is exactly the point that those making shallow judgements just cannot see.  I entirely agree that it is a little strange that they keep returning when they find it a string of whining posts -go read something else!
    DA You swing from interesting views to wordplay and then to a critical reflection of us and the nature of the posts. Such a meta discourse is fine but, even though I can see the games in your lyrical waxing, I am going to do as BB suggested and focus on the bits I want to, and I am pleased that a, you confess to having been in similar situations,  b, for agreeing that 'bad people' is a touch too far, and c, some interesting thoughts on human nature.  I agree with the bit about conflict between nesting and  mating and think this is a crucial factor. 

    Mon 18, May 2009 at 5:35pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Holy hell!  What happened here?  Ivan here. 
    DaveAngel, where did you appear from?  Kind of not sure what to do with your posts.  First, I think you make a number of quite valid points.  I know that I for one had no idea what I was saying when I gave my wedding vows.  Quite frankly got married way to young (well mentally anyway), had no sense of myself or what was really important and really the over-riding factor of what I needed when I got married was someone to "take care of me".  I was selfish and needy and clingy and had very low self-esteem and hadn't any insight into myself.  Never thought about anyone else and couldn't because I was so self-centered and focused on myself because I was so needy.
    Hopefully now, I am becoming stronger and more supportive of myself and after a long time of not doing so, trying to be a more compassionate person, not always focused on myself.
    But so you tell me now, what is the "honest" and "honorable" thing to do?  This is one thing I am struggling with mightly right now.  As I get to know myslef and grow, and try not to be so needy, what does one do with the doubts about a spouse?  I want to honor my wife and have realized how terrible I've been treating her.  So now that I am faithful, but unsure, what is the best course?  Be honest about my doubts?  Suck it up and realize that this is the relationship I entered into before I knew myself at all?  Stop trying to get to know myself and what might really matter to me if that over-arching need to just be taken care of is gone and I can maybe be an equal in a relationship with someone? 
    Have I done terrible things that I am ashamed of?  Oh yes.  But don't you think that the really "bad people" are the ones who never have any self-reflection and never grow?
    I'm all for hearing harsh words and frankly I haven't heard enough of them over the course of my life and have been coddled too much and allowed to get away with too much and had too much of a "woe is me" attitude.  And I agree that there isn't much always here in the way of solutions.  No one still really has a solution for me as to how I stop thinking about my affair partner and "what if?" and move on and simply love my wife.
    So please, if you have a solution, offer one up.  I want to be a faithful, compassionate husband with one woman.  I also want to be fulfilled in a marriage and have life-long lasting passion (which yes, I know it fades, but I do believe that if you begin with that spark you can keep it going and revive it, but what if you never had it to begin with)?
    So I guess what I am saying is that I, for one, welcome your thoughts and critiques and welcome you to tell me that I'm full of shit and to focus on what's really important.  If you have solutions, offer them up.  But please, don't give me this diatribe about 21 Universal Drives or the conflict of Mother Nature and Humanity.  Tell me HOW to stop this war going on within myself.  Tell me HOW to move on from my past and the hurtful and detremental (to myself as well by the way) things that I have done and tell me HOW to find the intimacy and happiness and passion that I crave.
    By the way, I'm not sure if I'm like the others, but you said that if we want to really fix stuff, we'd do better reading intro to psych (and that you don't like shrinks but you like counsellors) or getting a few books on relationships from the library.  Well, I have COUNTLESS books on relationships and I've read quite a bit of psychology.  I'm not exactly sure of your distinction between shrinks and counsellors, but I am seeing a therapist and working on myself from that angle as well.  If there is another step that you feel that would be good to take I'm all ears.  Even if its harsh or critical.

    Mon 18, May 2009 at 6:20pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    You and I are very similiar in your talk of a spark or lack of. I too want to let go of the past but P keeps popping up - wish he would disappear. Still trying with husband but often seems one step forward two back. Really could not bet on this working but for now we try.
    They were both in the playground again yesterday, a united stand or a show for me? Will never know. All I do know is that things can not be much better there than here - must stop thinking about them as driving me mad.
    BB - how did the meet go?
    Emily/April - hows things?
    suzzy x

    Tue 19, May 2009 at 7:30am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    The terms and conditions under which the site operates  are that it is a community supporting each other online only.  Hence the removal of the request for personal contact with another member of the community. 
     Am so confused at the moment, Matt has made it clear that I am a part of his past but I just don't understand how I'm here, at this point in life. 

    Tue 19, May 2009 at 9:20am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Suzzy
    We had a very open, honest and love affirming meeting last night. P has fears about the effect my guilt will have on our(potential) future together and I admitted that I really dont know how just how hard I am going to find it. I explained that it has taken me all of my resolve and soul searching to get to the point where I can say I am actually going to leave (and have not thoroughly thought through the effect it will have on us).
    Because of our different positions(P seperated over 3years ago) P is alot further on than me in understanding herself and if I am honest has probably (due to my inaction) been preparing herself for the likelyhood we may not be together. So she needs to be reassured that if we end up together we both understand what we want from the relationship.
    We understand we are in different positions (P has no kids and is seperated and obviously I have the kids the financial concerns and the fact I have been leading a double life for along time now...something that I am ashamed of) but we also understand that we love each other immensely. (and we also fear that we could be too logical over our choice and regret it for the rest of our lives)
    P is away now till next monday and I go to disney land paris for five days with the wife and kids and my mother in law(she is paying) next week(kids really excited god bless them). We both agreed it is pointless making a decision (here we go again i hear you say :-)  ) until we have returned. One thing we have agreed on is that even if that decision is to move on, the door will remain open for both of us. Now we realise that last statement probably goes against all clinical advice but We/I are just not strong enough for complete closure right now.
    So summing up, felt better after seeing her last night (as lately i have been at rock bottom) and felt I have had another emotional overdraft(as my counsilor puts it) for 2 weeks.But I am painfully aware that the bank will call it in very soon. Even as i type this I can feel myself doubting my resolve again.
    And yes Suzzy I too feel exactly like Ivan in regards to the spark and like Ivan I have never really had one to work on. You can not engineer it unfortunately as much as you try. The mistake (although i did not know it at the time) was not giving myself time to understand what truly makes me happy and content.
    Hope you guys are okay...well you know...

    Tue 19, May 2009 at 9:29am
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Dear all
    I do log in about once a week to check on this post. Suzzy, Ivan, April, BB and the rest, I am glad you all still keep this post going and updating on your end.
    Suzzy, what do you plan to do now that your husband moved back home and you realised it might not be what you want after all? It is true to say that children benefit more from one happy parent than two unhappy parents put together.
    I am not afraid to be on my own but the reason why I am hesitant to leave is because I am not sure if I really want to leave my marriage after all. It might not have the passion and my husband (although good looking but hasn't got "chemistry"), however, my marriage has many other positive things. It is secure, comfortable, we have no financial problems, we have mutual friends and our families both get on together and my parents love him/his parents love me.
    In my last post, I said W has been in touch and asked to see me this week. Guess what? It's over with W again. He rang me twice in the week, whilst my husband was at home. I boldy picked up the call and W asked me why do I sound so cold towards him. After that two attempts to talk to me (and failed to speak properly/both times he rang at wrong time/my husband was around), we both gone funny on each other again. I did email him to explain my husband was at home and he seemed very understanding. But two days later, I realise we both drifted apart again. There are two days he won't be free to meet and I am beginning to wonder if he is seeing other girls too. 
    To be honest, I am put off by the whole thing again. There are too many insecurities and doubts with him. And to start with, I am not really serious about leaving my marriage (am I???). I did think I was in love with W and kept thinking about him but these two days, I think less of him. All I have to do is to look at my kids' faces and remind myself how much I love my family and I can't possibly let my kids down. After all, I am not really unhappy with my marriage.
    I even reached the conclusion that even if my marriage fails, W won't be an ideal partner/stepdad. He is quite unreliable and unpredictable. He blows hot and cold too. If I do have a failed marriage behind, I should have known better second time round and be wiser. I would be more careful with who I do go out with. I know you can't control your feelings or choose who you want to fall for but I can't afford to put my kids through more misery. Anyway for now, its back to working on my marriage.
    Will be back again to check this post. BB, I wonder if your feelings might change after a week in Disneyland with the family?
    Ivan, like you, I've read self-help, I've talked to bestfriends and family and done research. I've thought things throught, I've distanced myself, I've given it a chance etc., I think all we need is TIME and TIME will heal everything, it could be 6 weeks to 6 months to 1 or 2 years. The most effective way is to NOT think about it. To get it out of your mind as soon as it pops back in.
    There is a line in a song that I heard recently, "How can my heart be possibly break when it wasn't even whole to start with?" How beautiful.

    Tue 19, May 2009 at 11:54am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    AKS, This site IS private/anonymous, so dont worry...address an article to me if u think we can offer each other something elsewhere. We'll see... 
    Have you read the books I mentioned above? The best books are not the deep mystical, analytical or pop ones, but the practical functional ones for 'new' adults that go over the basics- in my op anyway... (I tell my partner everything about what I feel and think and do- we listen 100%, and question every little detail- together. What do u think that would feel like for u and yours?)
    I am curious why you would believe you are free from necessity- birth, sex, death, creativity etc, and why you dont see any relevance in the role of nature/instincts. Perhaps if you have read alot you might like to clarify your own understandings about the way we use/are used by- and develop our primary urges...
    I would also like to know if u have read the book- The Five Secrets of Loving Relationships. What were/are your thoughts?
    Psychologically speaking, the reason I prefer counsellors is they dont have the power to write scripts and diagnose pathologies- simple as that.
    Two psychological concepts, in my opinion, which are relevant concerns with most ppl's struggles here are "parataxic distortion" and "abnormal normalisation".
    These concepts are part of the sense of an 'alternate reality' that drives some of the posts here, and could be deceptively appealing to some in my humble.... Emily particularly, personifies the seductive psychological attractions that generate a cyclical dialogue. If u read her first post it might become apparent. There is a powerful ability to  stimulate contradictions and tension, and themes are developed with articulate skill. The plot is not wholly apparent nor is the denouement, and this tension is the leader and prompt for other ppl to interweave their own narrative. It has merits in relation to plausibility, but certain ideas e.g. "time",  and to "NOT think", and other ideas woven into the -'unrequieted clandestine affair'- here, are unmitigated by a sense of closure or of climaxing change. I would read between the lines...carefully...
    Like an addiction- say when you drink- there are a SET of patterns and a SETTING. If we look at the ppl in our lives, sometimes problems are sensed as patterns/habits in a particular SETTING. There is a 'self fulfilling' sense with it, and a 'treadmill', 'catch 22' quality. Make sense?

    Tue 19, May 2009 at 1:51pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    BB-'You can not engineer it unfortunately as much as you try.' are u sure?

    Tue 19, May 2009 at 2:24pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I am as sure as my knowledge of love is concerned. I believe relationships can be improved through effort, respect, understanding and communication but I dont believe you can engineer love. For me if you (not you personally) have to analyse love to the finest detail it somehow loses something. Love is a feeling wich is unique to the individual and can never be sufficiently explained. I know for certain that I have met someone who I love. It really is that simple unfortunately. I shall leave the science to others better qualified.

    Tue 19, May 2009 at 3:21pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All,
    Emily, good to have an update!  I am absoulutely with you on the view of how your marriage is.  I too can feel so 'comfortable' at times.  Then something happens - I get a put-down or feel alone because my husband will never do things with me -and I suddenly think maybe I don't want this, even though it is comfortable, when this other person loves me so much. 
    IT feels strange, but my instincts tell me I will end up with my lover [who I knew many years ago -we just bumped into each other one day and couldn't stop talking...] No plan behind it at all -in response to those who think we plan to feel like this. 
    To Dave A, your posting is more coherent and useful today -I agree with the addiction thing.  And, I know what you mean about the normalisation -I have become used to running more than one intimate relationship albeit that up until recently my other was a gay man.  But it has become 'normal' for me to have this extra aspect. 
    To those who talk of the 'passion' and 'spark' I do know what you are saying, but I think we have to be really wary of this.  That spark does go and you need to have personalities that fit together -I think anyway.  I too have read up on things and see the suggestion that we keep repeating our mistakes by going for the same types.  I have always tried to 'help and support' people -so end up taking in all manner of waif and stray cos I feeel sorry for them.  But, while it fills my need to love, I don't get much back as they turn out to be self centred.  -This is actually how I got to be with my husband -he was very ill and I cared for him -so much it cost me my first marriage. 
    The new man -yet old friend- is very strong and does not 'need' me in this way -he is always asking about what I would like/want! Nobody ever did that before!!  That includes my gay best friend -I serve him as a 'faghag' [he is v. needy] but when I want something he is often too busy...
    Ahhh, what to do... If only it were as simple as moving out and learning to be on my own for a bit -which I know makes sense.  But as so many of us find, that is just so hard when we actually do care for those we are with,
    We truly have a dilemma and there is no simple solution.

    Tue 19, May 2009 at 6:33pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hello all, IVAN here.  I would like to reply to DaveAngel, but first wanted to say something about April's post above.  I wholeheartedly believe that we can not base our decision on who to be with ONLY on "spark" and "passion" and that this does fade and personalities need to fit together.  I just think that if you don't have this passion and chemistry at the beginning it makes it tough going forward when there is no lust or no underlying electricity in your marriage.  With all the temptation out there, wouldn't it be great if this could be present in your marriage or at least have been so that the embers can be fanned?  I do think that a LOT of people make the mistake of following only their lust, but is it not possible to have a best friend AND a lover?  And I'm not just talking sexually either.  Let's say you are passionate about someting- anything.  Take skiing?  If your spouse is not as passionate about skiing or isn't also passionate about a number of things that you do it makes it difficult.  And of course no two people are alike, but without that underlying passion it makes it difficult. This is something that I struggle with every day.
    First, you asked if I'd read the books you mentioned.  However I went back to look at your post and there were no specific books mentioned (perhaps they were removed in your posting?)  Could you please list the ones you recommend again?
    Also, I couldn't find the book "The Five Secrets of A Loving Relationship"?  Is it perhaps the book by David Richo entitled "How to Be An Adult in Relationships: The Five Keys to Mindful Loving"?  If not, could you let me know which book you are referring to as I'd certainly like to read it.
    You said you were curious as to why I beleive I am free from necessity (i.e. birth, sex, death, creativity, etc.).  I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean?  You also asked why I didn't see any relevance in the role of nature/insticts.  Quite the contrary and I most certainly do.  I believe that part of my "insticts" and "nature" are not to be in a relationship at all.  I often get sexual urges that I have to fight like hell not to act on (although I think I am becoming much better at managing my impulses) and am one who does not necessarily believe that it is man's (human kind's I mean) nature to be monogamous.  I crave sexual passion and find that I am desirous of a great number of women.
    Having said this, I also want a loving, compassionate relationship.  Which is why (and you mentioned this had been true for you in a prior post) I am at war with myself.  And you mention that you were faced with the "Dillemma" and that you had to confront yourself and your "nature".  Well that is what I am trying to do.  I am trying to be faithful and committed and at the same time figure out what I really need and fight my desires or even understgand what is going to be sustainable in the long run.
    I fully appreciate your postings and appreciate someone (you) telling me that I have behaved like a spoiled child and that (as you said in one post) I have had a lack of approrpiate boundaries which is unethical and a lack of communication with my partner.  All of this is completely correct and I needed to hear this (not just from you, but from a therapist as well).
    The thing is you say that the lack of courage and respect to self-honest and honesty to partners is what you find sad on this board and just in your last post you mentioned that you tell your partner everything about what you feel and think and do and that between the two of you you question every little detail 100%.  Then you asked how it feel if I did the same with my partner.  Well, I think that is a wise question, but what does that mean?  Does that mean I should say "I'm not sure I want to be with you" when I'm not sure what I want?  Does that mean I should mention every time I find another woman attractive and spell out every little doubt I have?  Does that mean I should detail my struggle to figure out what I want? 
    I think you are quite right of course that if I had gone to her initially and been truthful when I was having an affair as to what I needed and what was missing that would of course had been better.  But how could I?  That is the problem with insight isn't it?  Its ALWAYS after the fact?  I was acting on impulse and I didn't even know what I wanted.  I still don't.  I didn't even know what was missing.  I DO know more about myself now and I do recognize how needy I was and how I had been killing the passion in my own relationship, but how I can be honest (with her or myself) without even knowing myself and without even having discovered what I want.
    I'll give you an example.  A few years ago, I old my wife I wanted her to dress a certain way, wear sexy shoes and certain clothes.  This made her completely uncomfortable and obviously didn't create passion and reminded her of another woman I was trying to "make her into".  I had no idea that I was trying to tell her how starved I was just for passion.  It wasn't the shoes, or the clothes.  It was the feeling. And now that I can recognize these cravings, what to do with them?  Just grin and bear it?
    I whole-heartedly agree with your use of parataxic distortion and you analogy to addiction.  I think these are completely accurate and I've heard them before and recognize these behaviors in myself.
    The thing is I can analyze till the cows come home, but no one can tell me HOW to get over this or not be a slave to my passions.  And is that what I am?  Or am I just a guy who needs passion in his life?
    In any event, please help me shed more light on your situation and if you can recommend any books that have helped you along your way and describe to me more how you've dealt with things that would be fantastic.  I think (like I believe BB said awhile back) that unlike what you describe this board to be as a "Mutual Admiration Club", I think most of us (I for one at least) am looking for a "Mutual Assistance Club".  I am NOT looking for anyone to tell me what a good boy I am and pat me on the back and tell me it will be okay and that my actions weren't that bad.  I know they were.  I was an AWFUL person.  No, strike that, I behaved AWFULLY and TERRIBLY and HURTFULLY without thinking about anyone but myself or any of the consequences.  I acted solely out of my neediness and impulses. 
    I am DESPERATELY trying to avoid that while learning to understand myself and my real needs and understand if I can truly and honestly be a good husband to my wife.  I've hurt her terribly and I do not want to continue to do that and I do not want to hurt myself.
    So I appreciate your harsh words more than you know but please tell me HOW to move on from my affair partner and stop wishing she'd call me or stop almost calling her every day and please tell me HOW to deal with this absolute rage that I feel because she decided to stay with her husband and have his child and please tell me HOW to deal with all my passions and desires.  I am not hear for admiration.  I am hear for help and open to anything.

    Tue 19, May 2009 at 10:24pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Oh, boy, IVAN here again.  Just re-read my above post and my apologies for its length and diatribe (and self-focus).
    Hope everyone else is doing well.  Sounded like you had a good chat BB (although where do you go from here?)
    Glad to see April reiterate how very unattractive "neediness" is...if there is one thing I have learned its that I need to learn to stand on my own two feet better in any event...
    Oh, and by the way, in my post above, second to last line was meant to be "here" rather than "hear" of course.

    Tue 19, May 2009 at 10:28pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Been there...done that. I was so in love with my "other man"...and he cut me loose. Way too much hurt and pain to describe.
    You will only end up misrerable...I promise

    Wed 20, May 2009 at 2:58am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    I have only got five minutes Ivan...
    You and your wife are not fulfilling each other, this drives you into the world to seek. Objectifying sex can b a huge  threat for ppl, especially if they arent comfortable talking about it. Either way, I would have worked my way to some modest pyjamas, perfumes, toiletry gifts, semi- formal dresses before I bought the crotchless maids outfit with the studs...hohoho...
    Why arent you burning to connect so bad that you keep your aversions and moods in line with steering your wife back down sexy street? If u can persuade her through your efforts at intimacy and love making, she might eventually warm to banging.
    One very pleased woman is a very beautiful thing and makes you feel proud. An affair based on chemistry is too easy, is childish, lacks depth, and- to my my mind- is way less cool than being emotionally needy and transparent.
    Needy is way better if you have a responsive and attentive partner anyday...
    Gotta work...

    Wed 20, May 2009 at 5:33am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I have found a lot of the critical comments on this thread quite provoking.  Initially part of the appeal of talking to others in my situation was to make myself feel better about what I've done.  Excuse buddies if you like.
    But one concept that has made me think the most is that of admitting the affairs.  Because at the moment I feel that my husband is someone I can take or leave at will, he'll be so grateful to have me back.  That doesn't make him more attractive to me, I remember when I first met him he was aloof and unattainable and that was oddly alluring.
    I think if he knew what I'd done he'd be furious and it would, in some way, restore the correct balance of power in the relationship - what do you think?  He'd know what he's dealing with and at least what we have left (if anything) is based on the truth. 
    Question though - how far do you go with the truth? do I tell him about everyone I've flirted with, had a kiss with, had 'thoughts' about... do I tell him everything about Matt and me?  Where would it end?  And would we have more of a chance of a happy future if I just keep my mouth shut, not try to get rid of my guilt by off-loading (and causing untold pain) and just getting on with it?
    Would love some ideas...
    thanks AKS

    Wed 20, May 2009 at 6:56am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All
    Quote from DaveAngel
    '... Also, another thing that upsets others with this article is the backslapping and 'totally'-ing and 'yes'-ing- a kind of Mutual Admiration "Club" mentality which defeats some of you, and your resolve...'
    I am sorry but I am going to 'upset' the others now(I do hope they get over it).. here goes...
    Ivan I have just read your Diatribe :-) and every word just rings so true with me. Honestly it was as if you were writing my thoughts. And Mr Angel (very grand name!!) pretentious moi?... saying that is not defeating me or my resolve. I am sure I speak for everyone on here that we just want to be free from this pain. I am absolutely convinced I would be so content and happy with P for many of the reasons Ivan talks about whatever Tarot cards I was dealt.

    Wed 20, May 2009 at 10:12am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Sorry, above is from BB.

    Wed 20, May 2009 at 10:41am
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    When it comes down to it, all we all want is to be happy.
    i hear all the comments and generally agree on most.
    emily, having my husband back is not running smoothly. Both still unhappy and neither of us has the courage to state the obvious - that it is over. My husband is not a bad man as neither am I a bad woman. I was unhappy and handled that issue by having the affair instead of confronting the problem.
    Whats done is done  - the destruction is massive. i have hurt my husband and myself. i think the damage is too great. if I had not fallen in love with P maybe it would be repairable but with each day, the sadness does not disappear.  Part of the sadness is due to the collapse of my marriage and the thought of the upset this will bring on my children and the wider family.
    However, it is getting to the point where I feel enough is enough. I am not being fair to my husband. He deserves to have someone who truely loves him and I know he feels it would never happen to him again but I am sure it would. Just dont believe i can give him what he needs - my heart is just not in the marriage anymore. Need the courage and conviction to face reality and deal with the situation as is.
    My affair with P has destroyed my life, however things were not right before - I only dealt with them in the wrong manner.
    like Ivan and others, I crave the passion etc - this has never been between us and as such you can not relight a flame that never was.
    just need some strength. Feel to low to deal the next set of cards..............
    Suzzy x

    Wed 20, May 2009 at 11:05am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    Throw the cards and see where they land...
    Time 2 do 1 4 u...
    ...let go...
    ground zero...

    Wed 20, May 2009 at 1:45pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi All,
    This week my daughter told me about how her friend's mum found out her husband was having an affair and how much she was crying... made me feel awful.  Then, I met another friend and she told me how her lover's wife had found out and rang up her husband and he has thrown her out right in the middle of her daughter's GCSEs...  made me feel awful. So then I txted my lover and said we cannot carry on as it is because I feel bad... made me feel awful.  Then we realised we couldn't meet to talk for days... made me feel awful.  Then my husband was kind to me...  you get the picture!!
    Affairs, as we have all been agreeing in the above posts do not make us happy.  You get trapped -locked in.  Tired, drained, snappy, daydream of what might be, nightmares of what might go wrong -only mine are violent and horrid rather than featuring family -more like a war zone.
    So, I am moaning and whinging, I know, -as we have all become aware if you follow these posts, but that is how it is isn't it? Going round in circles.  In some ways I think those two couples who have, this week, found out and acted upon it are the winners because they have done it now and will have to move on. 
    Suzzy, I guess you were there but took a step back -I liken this to a bumpy landing on a flight when the wheels touch and lift, touch, lift, touch, stay...  Emily, your flight might not be landing but taking off again! 
    Ivan, I think that the way to move on from the affair partner is learn to dislike her a bit.  You were projecting your ideal image onto her -if she was so good she would still be around.  You can move on, but I wonder if you need to leave your wife to do this.  That's why you cannot find the answer -cos it is not an easy option!
    Not that I am anyone to talk...

    Wed 20, May 2009 at 5:50pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Wow, this thread is huge!  I have been trawling the internet for a while now looking for advice on affairs and now that I have found this thread it is too late.  It has moved on this afternoon and the wierdest bit is that I don't actually feel guilty.  J and I met about 7 years ago and had an affair then.  I was in a bad place at the time and didn't think I deserved to be considered number one and was happy with always being number two.  We eventually drifted apart as I couldn't continue in that situation.  Now in January this year, J has found me again via the interent.  It was just like old times - we always got on so well with some kind of connection. We chatted on line and on the phone for a few weeks and eventually met up twice in one week.  No physical activity, but lots of emotional support for each other.
    Both my marriage and his relationship have been rocky for a while (in fact, he is still in the same relationship as he was when we forst hooked up). Iam attending arriage counselling with my husband and while he is happy to talk during the meetings he takes no action to resolve our issues when we return home. 
    J and I live in different parts of the country now which can make things difficult for seeing each other, but I do now feel from how we are with each, the emotions that pass between us and things that we are destined to be together.
    Neither of us have children and both want them, and both of our partners are not keen on having them.
    Really I'm not sure why I'm writing on here as I'm pretty sure how things will pan out, but I just need to get this off my chest. Any advice or opinions happily received and thanks for reading, Loulou x

    Wed 20, May 2009 at 8:07pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    To the above -just go for it!!!  No kids and not happy, found someone you do love, no contest!  Don't get locked into the affair pattern especially if you do not have kids -most of us do on here, and that seems to be the main reason for not moving on.  April

    Wed 20, May 2009 at 9:20pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Thanks April, you're right.  I was projecting my image of the ideal man onto Matt.  Now that we have fully broken up with no contact for over 2 wks I can honestly say that he was not all I'd cracked him up to be.
    He has no poetry in his soul, he's emotionally crippled and because he internalises everything he lets negative feelings build up unresolved until he has no option but to walk away.  Not good relationship material.
    He's not a pleasant person really, very unsympathetic to those in need and quite hard.  Couple that with the binge drinking, gambling etc and I realise I was in lust with him and that I had projected onto him my ideal of the lovable bad boy.
    Time, even just a couple of weeks, has shown him to me in his true light and I hope that gives hope to all of you out there. 

    Thu 21, May 2009 at 10:30am
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Dear all, I bet you all won't believe what I have done last two days. I came to my senses. I really did. I had sleepless nights, tossing and turning and looking my husband and thinking how much I have ignored him last few months, I had lived selfishly, wanting another guy and having an affair, putting myself first and pushing my husband's feelings aside, suddenly - I felt GUILT.
    Then I went cold when I think about the times I had slept with W (without protection). Suddenly, my mouth went dry. What if I catch a sex disease? After much thinking, two days ago, I went to a private health clinic, paid a lot of money to get a full sexual health tests done. It all came back negative and I am clear. I was worried sick before that and after my results, I was very relieved.
    The reason why I went for a sexual health tests is because i have never been unfaithful to my husband. W is the only guy I ever slept with and I doubt his lifestyle, he is very popular with women. I had asked for protection when I slept with him but he didn't want to use any. Stupidly, I gave in to his demands. That shows what BLIND-LOVE and a drink can do to your head.
    Anyway, I felt I am ready to move on with my life and I don't want to see W ever again. I have to get a peace of mind and to make sure I didn't catch any sexual disease or HIV, so bravely I went for a full check up. I was very nervous and scared before that but now I am very relieved. I just feel ready to move on with my life with my family.
    All I can tell you all is last two days, I had a big cry at home to myself. I looked at my wedding photos and I cried my eyes out. I felt I had been so careless, stupid and reckless. I could have put my husband at risk too, I could have cause so much harm and damage in my family. All because I was seeking OUTSIDE and sleeping with someone else recklessly. My whole world could have crashed down and my whole future wiped out if I catch anything as scary as HIV.
    To cut a long story short, I am now looking at life in a positive, clearer way. I have deleted all of W's texts and emails. I am now moving on my life and don't want to see him again. It's not worth putting myself through that risks.
    I will still check back this site and will try my best to provide some moral/emotional support to all who still need it. But to all of you still confused, I don't judge you all because I have been through it myself. But instead of looking elsewhere, it is always worth to try and fix the problems at home first. If you have kids, look at their little faces and think hard. Our reckless actions might cost their happiness and change our/their life/future. Please, think hard and keep safe with your family, if that option is the best.
    Will write again.

    Thu 21, May 2009 at 11:46am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    So Emily, what do u plan to say to your hubb about the infidelity when the opportunity arises? Secrets can be a huge obstacle to genuine intimacy...
    D. Angel? 

    Thu 21, May 2009 at 2:46pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Well, firstly Emily I really hope things work out for you - sadly my life is turning in a different direction.
    We went out for dinner last night, i was hoping we would have a good evening, but the affair and the carnage that goes with it hangs like a bad smell. We almost had an argment in the restuarant!
    Long story short, as soon as we can afford it, my husband will be moving out for a period of, to start 6 months. I know of people who once they are apart properly, realise what they actually want IS each other and then get back together and are happy BUT this may not happen here. The point is, I feel by staying together at the moment, we are moving further and further apart so if this can help, good.
    The main problem is the level of intimacy I had with P, too much for him to deal with at the mo. With time, maybe.............. Has anyone got any advice on this.
    Suzzy x

    Thu 21, May 2009 at 6:52pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Daveangel, there have been quite a number of occasions when I wanted to confess the affair to my husband. A couple months back, I have "half-confessed" to him about a guy who has confused me and "stirred my heart" and he had been understanding but towards the end of our talk, we both agreed to work on both our issues. However I know one day the truth might comes out and if so, I am more than prepared to come clean and confess everything. If he find it hard to forgive me, then sadly it is a price I have to pay.  It is eating me inside and there are still moments when I just want to tell my husband the truth, even though he doesn't seem to suspect much about what goes on. He happens to be one trustworthy kind of person and works long hours and I always thought if I have an affair, he would probably be the last person to find out. It's not nice to say this as its betrayal so no, I am not proud of myself.
    Suzzy, at the moment, it sounds like neither of them is right for you. P seems to be playing "happy family" with his family and is not in contact with you anymore. How is friendship between you and his wife? Obviously not talking? And your husband doesn't fulfil you emotionally in a way that your empty heart desires although he is a good father. I guess its the right thing to do - for your husband to consider moving out for a while and see what goes on from there.
    The passion and intimacy/romantic feelings we feel for a lover are always going to sound or feel more sexy, exciting and delightful, mainly because its a new sensation wherease the feeling with our long-term partner has fallen into too much familiarity level. But if we look closer and listen to our heart, there is a satisfying/contented/secure feeling at home that an outside lover can't fulfill.
    Still, just because my marriage can be saved, doesn't necessary means yours could be the same because we are all different individuals with different people/needs/emotions. Suzzy, its also likely you wont end up with P or your husband but someone new who can make you smile again. All the best.

    Fri 22, May 2009 at 12:23pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi everyone, this is Ivan.
    Quote from Emilysmiles:
    "The passion and intimacy/romantic feelings we feel for a lover are always going to sound or feel more sexy, exciting and delightful, mainly because its a new sensation wherease the feeling with our long-term partner has fallen into too much familiarity level. But if we look closer and listen to our heart, there is a satisfying/contented/secure feeling at home that an outside lover can't fulfill."
    So true and something I constantly need to keep telling myself.  I am trying to forget about my indiscretions and move on.  I really do have security at home and realize how willing and open my wife is to working on our relationship and trying to understand my needs.  I know why I had the affairs I had and I know that I have been incredibley needy and insecure and that I am also impulsive and haven't thought through the consequences.  Having been diagnosed by my therapist with ADD explains a whole lot to me (not just about my impulsivity and need for stimulation but about so much growing up and work, etc.).
    But the fact is I DO need that excitement.  I DO need stimulation.  My wife is wonderful and so willing to work with me and trying to understand (as am I honestly) my need for stimulation and passion and excitement.  She is, as best any man could ever ask for right now.
    So WHY do I still find myself not lusting after her, not craving her, like I did J?  Or E so many years ago?  And why, if I know all of this and my wife is so wonderful to me do I still find myself wishing my wife was more experimental and wore different clothes or was more sensual.
    Now DaveAngel would say that I am a slave to my passions or caught in a war of nature or something.  Perhaps all of this is true.  And I am a man who will admit how INSENSITIVE I have been and how hurtful and how I am now desperately trying to change and be fair and honest.  And I am trying to discuss with my wife what is needed and not make demands and not say something stupid like "I wish you wore high heels more" or "I need you to go to strip clubs with me".
    But the fact of the matter is that those are dumb examples and I never even knew what I really needed or was saying.  But what I need is passion and sensuality and playfulness and lightness.  I am trying to shift the dynamic in my relationship because (due to the fact that I have been so selfish) I have obviously created a situation where she wouldn't have any desire to meet me half way because I certainly haven't been sensitive to HER needs.
    But at the end of the day, she isn't that type of person.  She is more reserved and conservative.  And there isn't anything wrong with that at all.  She doesn't deserve the behavior I've displayed simply because that is the way she is.  And being the way she is, she is kind and loving and caring and responsible and wonderful.
    And I hope I haven't appeared shallow with my examples above of (for instance) wanting a wife who will go to a strip club with me or what have you.  I don't know why having this "passion" is so important to me but I can't seem to shake it.  I want a loving mother and wife and family but I also want to feel the electricity when we touch and that "chemistry".  I want my wife to be the type to sit me down in a chair when I get home from work and hand me scotch and say "just sit there and watch me".
    So I'm off again on one of my diatribes, but this is why (as DaveAngel would say) I am at war with myself.  I have decided that I will not be that man who has affairs.  Its not who I am.  I am a separate person from my actions and I will not hurt my wife that way any longer.  I will not hurt ME that way any longer and destroy any sense of pride in myself.  I will make every effort to satisfy that passion within my relationship and in other activities in my life in which I feel that very same passion.
    AND YET its such a struggle.  I feel as though I'm starving.  I feel this void.  I liked DaveAngel's analogy to addiction (and one which I've often heard and has been applied to me).  But I'm afraid.
    Dave, if you're out there, you never gave the names of those books and never confirmed if I was looking at the correct book that you'd mentioned about the "Five Keys" or whatever.
    I'm determined to have a successful relationship and I never (obviously with having affairs and disrespecting my wife and never really being "in" my marriage) really put in the effort in my marriage and certainly didn't respect my vows or even know what I was saying at the time.  I just wish that I didn't feel such a lack of "it" or "passion" or "chemistry" or whatever.  Before I didn't even know what I felt, I just felt an attraction elsewhere and on impulse followed it without even knowing what I was following or thinking of the consequences.  Now I am and I'm thinking of the consequences and not being impulsive but that hunger...that still there.

    Fri 22, May 2009 at 5:47pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Ivan here again.  In my thoughts above, of course, forgot that I want to check in on others here.
    Suzzy- I feel so much for you.  There really isn't any advice anyone can give that will take away the difficulty right now.  The only thing that I can offer is that during this time apart, perhaps your husband will realize that he can forgive you and you can grow closer while you are apart.  But make sure that you also take the time to analyze what happened and the situation and what YOU want.  And also reflect on your actions.  Don't be too hard on yourself, but also DON'T be too easy.  I hate what I did, but I can tell you that on reflection, I am happy NOT being in an affair and NOT lying and trying to hide everthing.  I hated not only my actions, but also myself.  I am trying to grow my own self-esteem by being honest and respectful to my wife.
    I think that in my case it helped immensely that my wife saw that I was truly sorry and truly understood how deeply I'd hurt her.  That didn't happen immediately.  I reflectively said that I did and said I was sorry and everything, but I didn't really understand and I didn't really understand everything I'd been doing.  Still don't.  I guess all I am saying is try to reflect on how you got to where you are and why you did what you did and what you want.  I couldn't remember if you'd mentioned you were talking to a therapist or not, but I've really found it helpful (very frustrating at times, but also very helpful).  And I wish I could say that I'm "better" and I know myself or whatever but (obvioulsy) I can't.
    Anyway, I guess all I'm saying is try to use the time constructively for you as well.  Take care!

    Fri 22, May 2009 at 5:56pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Thanks Ivan, It is time now to move on whether that be with or without my husband. Sad time. We have shared so many years together, but he is finding it so hard to deal with (understandbly) and I am not sure my heart is in the marriage. Dont feel desparate to fix things and that to me says volumes.
    He is a good man and I have hurt him deeply. But can not continue if the desire to be with him is not there. Yes I am seeing a therapist - via my GP. Cant believe all this counselling etc had in last 10 months, never before. Only seen once so far so early days.
    You take care too.
    Suzzy x

    Sat 23, May 2009 at 2:41pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Ps forgot to say, I too need the passion etc, without it I feel dead inside.......

    Sat 23, May 2009 at 2:42pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi Suzzy, Emily, Ivan et al.,
    I think Emily that your guilt nd regret muct feel awful and I know that dark panicked feeling of dread and shame as I felt it many years ago.  It does go away eventually... I think that you are doing the right thing -and all along you seemed to know that was the right thing for you -it was a gut instinct.
    Suzzy, you too are coming through the awful bit of not knowing -opposite direction, but will be a relief once done as you can move on.
    Ivan, you are very reflective and can see the downfall of your own ways -I do wonder how many wives pounce on their husbands when they come home!  I think that you are in love with a fantasy there? 
    As to my update -well...  it is going well.  Following my guilt I told my lover that I did not want to be one of those people who have a double life for years.  It is wrong for many reasons and even if it wasn't. it is emotionally draining.  We have talked and have come up with a preliminary plan for telling our partners and then moving in together.  It is tricky, as things have to be timed carefully and as yet we don't know how best to do things, but it is good to know we feel the same.  I just could not go through life thinking I had missed this opportunity -it never felt quite so right before. It will happen sometime over summer...
    I just want to ad that this site has really helped me to see things from different perspectives -even the negative comments which hurt me, were useful in making me feel something had to be done. 
    I realise, the nature of what we are going through means that in a few days this could all be blown out of the water -I am so scared of him changing his mind! I think if he does, I will commit to leaving my husband anyway as I was clearly not happy -and my lover has said all along that that was his intention anyway.  So, we will see?
    April xxx

    Mon 25, May 2009 at 4:36pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Ivan, I do understand what you're trying to say. There was one time in my life when I feel I have gone off my husband because he doesn't look or feel like W whom I find very sexy and appealing. All those happened in the height of passion and giddiness during our affair. Later (now) i look at my husband through the eyes of others and realise he is still attractive to many others and there could still be women who might fancy him. Suddenly, when I look at him through the eyes of others, plus the wonderful personality he has, he suddenly became attractive to me again.
    You may not be able to get your wife to that level of adventurous mood you are in but you two might meet halfway. How does it sound? Say, if you like her in high heels, just buy her a nice pair and see her reaction. Perhaps you can arrange a dinner date with your wife where you are taking her to a nice restaurant where she is required to dress up and put on those stilettos. What I'm saying is, you can do it in your own little way.
    Suzzy, April is right in saying that once you are clearer in which direction you are taking, you will start to find life is back on track once again. Its a shame that a marriage breaks down despite the husband being a good man but its because a broken marriage does not just happen to bad people but to people of all kinds. You have tried, you've seen a counsellor and even tried to give it another try. So it's not as if you gave it up recklessly.
    April, I do hope all goes well for you. If your lover changes his mind, that just shows you his true colour and rather know it now than later. But as you said, you will still go ahead and leave your husband with or without your lover. I wish you all the best and do update us.
    On my end, all is good at home. We had a nice bank holiday weekend and have done family outings. My husband cracked a few jokes and made me laughed and I remember sitting there thinking how close I was in giving it all up.
    Ivan, your situation seems to require you to stop and think. I don't think you are emotionally ready to leave your family/wife. You are just in a muddle at the moment and they always say, when in doubt, just wait.
    Write again.

    Tue 26, May 2009 at 11:43am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Emily, you are so right about the 'when in doubt just wait' advice.  I am so pleased that you are getting on with your husband -after all, that is how this thread started -with you asking for  someone to put you back on track.
    I have fingers crossed for my situation and just want it to happen and then I can move on and stop feeling guilty.  No updates as yet though...

    Tue 26, May 2009 at 6:06pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I have randomly read your posts.  I am having an affair with a married man and I am married also.  We both have children ranging from scool age to adult.  We have professed our love for each other and we both claim we will love each other forever no matter what happens.  My husband has known about the affair for a couple of months now and my lover's wife just found out last week from my husband becasue he called her and told her everything he knows.  He was so aggressive with her she is now afraid of him.  We have cooled it off and have only had IM contact since one week ago.
    I have consulted a psychic and her insight and wisdom has brought some clarity to my situation.  This has helped me tremendously.  I wish you all well.  Thanks for your posts above.  We all have much in common.

    Tue 26, May 2009 at 7:23pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    OMG - reading these threads - made me cry nearly as i know what all are going through. im a bloke, married, 3 kids having an affair with a seperated women for 15 months now. We get on so well, in love and do amazing things. My issue is slightly different (maybe) - i cant commit as i know leaving the wife will destroy everything.
    My problem is that my affair partner has signed up to an internet dating site and i know is actively seeking a long term relationship which i cant give!!!! - so i either leave my wife to be with her or she gets a new man and i get dumped. How can i continue with her even for the short term when i know she is flirting etc. Yes i know she is single and can do what she wants - i have spoken to her about this and she honestly wants to be together. Wha tdo i do???? (thanks for reading and i wish you all well and so much happiness with whats going on in your lives - i just want to hug you all hahahahaha)

    Wed 27, May 2009 at 6:44am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    WOW. looks like there are many of us around. My own feeling mirror many of those on here. 
    My wife and I settled for one another. We often talked about it openly with one another , half joking but it was the truth. We get on fine, but we are complete opposites and i know she doesnt really appreciate many of the things about me that others like. Although she is kind and generous she can also creul and very short tempered. I used to fight it, but now I have reached a level of numbness which means i am beyonding caring.
    anyway, six months ago i got back in contact with my first love, Sallyann. it had been years since we had seen each other. we had been together for two and half years from 17 to 20 and we parted ways when i left for college. I was hurt but that thought bigger and better things awaited me. The relationshio was wonderful though, my father had died the year before and she got me out of this dark place, and we got each other. We connected. We had passion and actually quite an adult relationship considering we were both kids.
    Anyway I never really had many serious girlfriends after her. I felt she would have moved on quickly and got married and properly resented me for wasting two + years of her life. My life ground on and I thought of her every now and then with a pain in my heart. Much duller as time went but it was always there. I looked her up online and she never appeared so life moved on.
    I meet wife eight years afterwards. she was what i thought i wanted on paper. but there was no spark, no passion and not really physical attraction if im honest. but we got on and i sort of looked at the bad sex and complete lack of chemistry as something they may develop - like it is suppose to in arranged marriages. i hate to admit to myself but i was scared of being alone after being out of relationships for so long. im not the most handsome fella and a bit shy always had trouble meeting people.
    anyway fast forward to chritsmas 08 when i find sallyann again. she had been married and then got divorced and had two children. something in me clicked. we started texting and it was like i had found a part of me that had been locked away. i felt energised and more alive than i had in years. 
    when we meet it was surreal. the girl i had longed for those years was standing in front of me. she told me how she had felt the same way about me. she had always wondered where i was and what i was doing. when i looked into her eyes for the first time something exploded in my head. i was transported back to the girl i loved all those years ago. we kissed and honestly i have never felt a kiss like it. raw emotion and passion poured out of us. i didnt want to take it further because i was scared of how i felt - but the truth was i realised i had died a little bit inside accepting my lot in life - when infact i could still feel these things.
    after a three weeks of this, we met and slept together. i can honestly say i have never felt so part of another human being before. it was magical and like nothing i had ever felt before. I was ready to give it up at home and move on - when my wife reveals to me that she was pregnant. i couldnt believe it. we never really slept together and the timing could not have been worse.
    so sallyann and i distanced from each other, but not for long and it has been heartbreaking ever since. i cant walk out on a baby, but i also know that the closest thing i have ever had to a soulmate exists elsewhere and is something i will never get at home. sallyann has been understanding and supportive but is obviously heartbroken. She constantly questions the fact we are bad people, and maybe she is right. i hate the way i make her feel, and have ceased contact for now - but it is killing me. absolutely killing me.
    we are great friends, lovers and share the exact same sense of humour. before remeeting her i felt coldly about love, that it was just a chemical reaction nothing more. but now i know i  can feel it and that she i everything i ever wanted. even the thought of taking on someone else's kids doesn't worry me, because they are part of her and i would love to be part of it.
    now im locked into marriage and a family life that i dont know how to escape. i love the thought of having a baby on the way - i just wish this could have some kind of happy outcome...
    any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated....

    Thu 28, May 2009 at 12:43pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

     T.I.O. Team,
     If book titiles are deleted, and other comments are also deleted without  rationale... it is getting arbitrary... is there someone 'in there' with "hidden" issues?
    If so T.I.O!
    D. Angel.

    Thu 28, May 2009 at 4:05pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hello all.  Ivan here.
    N.R.- holy crap, are you my alter ego?  We should talk.
    To the T.I.O Team, I echo DaveAngel's questions.  Why are his book titles being deleted?  I for one am very interested in his thoughts and reccomendations.  Please explain?  And could we have back those titles that were deleted?  Many thanks.

    Thu 28, May 2009 at 5:40pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Oh, one more thing (Ivan here again).  Don't have much time, but N.R. you and Sallyann are not bad people, but you may be doing "bad" things or inconsiderate actions.
    I struggle with an almost exact version of your story.  I crave passion and long for the feelings I had with J and want them so badly in my life.  BUT one thing I know is that I want them in the context of a REAL relationship and I am struggling mightly to figure out what I really need and want and what can make me happy.  Being a cheater and having an affair IS NOT AN OPTION.  You need to tell yourself that.  It is not fair to your spouse.  It is not fair to Sallyann, it is not fair to YOU.  It will destroy every party involved and make you miserable.  TRUST ME.  I've been there.  As much as you crave her and think that your life would be wonderful with her and on and on.  Perhaps you are right.  BUT your life will be MUCH WORSE if you are running around lying, having an affair, trying to cover up your emails and your texts and watching your back and trying to have two relationships.  I know this.  Not to mention how miserable I am now trying to deal with all my memories and the carnage I've created.
    Figure it out.  If you are more happy with her, baby or not you need to figure that out and tell your wife and discuss it with her and come to a consensus and figure out what you really need.  You CAN'T do this when you are in two relationships.  And you NEED TO DO THIS before you don't have an option.  Trust me on that too, that is SO MUCH worse.
    All I am saying is take responsibility, at least for your actions.  I know that I still feel like I am "cheating" because I am in my marriage but thinking about someone else.  BUT I have decided that for me, cheating is NOT AN OPTION.  I am working on my marriage and trying to see if I can sort it out.  I have SO MANY of the same feelings as you and am in so many similar situations, but believe me, with all the immense, incredible pain I feel now, one thing I can tell you is that it feels SO GOOD not to be having an affair and not to be covering my tracks every day and not to be completely disrespecting my spouse.
    Hope that helps, at least initially.

    Thu 28, May 2009 at 5:52pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi to All,
    NR, I read your post with interest as it was a similar thing to me -I went out before Xmas and bumped into somebody I knew as a teen and just couldn't believe how much I felt and wanted him.  I don't know what to suggest about your situation with the baby though.  I agree with Ivan about not having affiars -we all do on here, but we get locked into them and then it all seems to go wrong.  The dilemma is always the same.  I am tempted to think you should be with your true love, but I also feel you should wait for the baby to come and see how you feel then.  Your wife is at such a vulnerable stage and I know I would be so hurt if my husband left me in that situation. 
    To Mark - a few posts above, I wonder how committed your lover is if she is looking for someone on a dating site?  Or did she tell you this to try and spur you into action perhaps?  I think you have to make your mind up -another thing that we have kind of worked out on here is that you cannot have your cake and eat it.  This is why we all end up going round in circles!

    Fri 29, May 2009 at 11:57am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    thanks for all your comments. its strangely comforting to know im not alone in what i feel.
    i'm not going to walk out on a pregnant wife, and i want to be the best father i can be to this child. its just sad i have to do this without the feeling of complete companionship i get elsewhere. im not going to cheat anymore, but i suspect that means i will lose sallyann and that part of my history. i dont think she will wait for me to decide what i need to do.. the strength of the bond of revisiting that first real love was really overwhelming however, and i dont think i'll ever truely recover. certainly it makes my relationship with my wife seem like friends living together as we have never had anything even close to this between us..
    does passion always fade? ive only really felt it for real this once, but to feel so close to another human being was breath taking - and that i might never feel it again - is heartbreaking...

    Fri 29, May 2009 at 2:56pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    the above was from NR

    Fri 29, May 2009 at 2:56pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    BTW thanks for your advice Ivan, really helpful reading through your posts.

    Fri 29, May 2009 at 3:06pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    NR (again!)

    Fri 29, May 2009 at 3:07pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    NR why not login / register??

    Fri 29, May 2009 at 3:10pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Oh dear, I met my lover this afternoon and we went and sat in the sunshine and just hung out a bit.  But suddenly, I felt the passion fade -and wondered if it was what I wanted.  Iam not sure -I knew this would happen.  He talked about what it would be like if his children 9/12 came to live with us and how would I cope.  I am not sure that I would!  Mine are independent and how would I go back to having babysitters and all that. 
    I sat out in my garden in the sun when I got in and thought how easy my life is now -and as a career woman my weekends are often spent -reading/writing etc.
    Oh god, what to do?

    Fri 29, May 2009 at 5:30pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Ivan, I am so agree with you. I have had very similar experience with you and NR. and  the affair has caused unbearable pain to me because I could not leave my marriage and and my lover has moved on with someone else. I am now working on my marriage. and trying to sort things out. It is not a smart way but we all do it. Sure great  price to pay!

    Fri 29, May 2009 at 9:09pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Ivan, I am so agree with you. I have had very similar experience with you and NR. and  the affair has caused unbearable pain to me because I could not leave my marriage and and my lover has moved on with someone else. I am now working on my marriage. and trying to sort things out. It is not a smart way but we all do it. Sure great  price to pay!

    Fri 29, May 2009 at 9:11pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Ivan, I am so agree with you. I have had very similar experience with you and NR. and  the affair has caused unbearable pain to me because I could not leave my marriage and and my lover has moved on with someone else. I am now working on my marriage. and trying to sort things out. It is not a smart way but we all do it. Sure great  price to pay!

    Fri 29, May 2009 at 9:11pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I have made a decision.
    I am going to focus intently on the symbolic.
    Fare well all, it is a most fickle mistress- and well feared and hated...

    Sat 30, May 2009 at 2:50pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    Hail All!
    I am having an affair.
    I know it is wrong, but it is fun!
    Can u plz pass the salt?

    Sat 30, May 2009 at 5:40pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    Does anyone have any tips on discussing psychic infidelities while making love to my 'significant other'?I even do this sometimes when I jerk off!!!
    Wot is wrong with me???

    Sat 30, May 2009 at 5:44pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    SSSOOO PPL... is it o.k. to jerk off?
    Is it only ever o.k to fantasise about my current partnerr when I jerrk off...? ( I need a womans perspective here!)
     Is there a distinction between jerking off while thinking about my wife, and fantasising about having sex with someone else other than my wife?
    And what about closing my eyes and imagining I am getting raunchy with a bevy of ' show biz personalities' while I am doing it with my wife? Am I being crass, egotistical, vain, amoral and insensitive?
    Is this wrong? Or is it o.k?
     Am I in denial?
    Seriously ?'ing the XXX IN SEX!!!
    Pls yelp!

    Sat 30, May 2009 at 6:09pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    Oh April!
    I am really feeling into your pain with you!
    What a terriblle feeling it must be to feel the way you feel inside! The feelings must be awesome!!!
    The sun rises and it sets, but always at least we have our PASSION!!!
    Sun is hidden behind a few clouds here...wot to do?
    xxx and  PPPEEEAAACCCEEE!!!!

    Sat 30, May 2009 at 6:14pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    DA, seek help.  you are clearly on something and it is not helpful.  there are other sites which might be more appropriate for you.  I just hope that you have not scared people from this useful posting.

    Sun 31, May 2009 at 6:42pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    oh, ok then...

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 5:12am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    To Daveangel
    I suspected very early on from your posts that you indeed also have issues. With respect, may i suggest you start/find a thread which may be more helpful to yourself.
    Good Luck with your journey.

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 12:42pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    You 'suspected'? What 'issues' pray tell...
    Respect? Are you sure about this or is it personal?
    I suggest you move on and get back onto discussing your own ......, rather than getting yourself in a tizzy because I use a little irony...

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 2:23pm
  • User-anonymous missrosy Flag

    Rather amusing that the person had to post that comment about Daveangel anonymously! Besides you can't tell someone to get off this thread! What a joke!

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 3:07pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    Thanks Rosy!
    God! You are a dear!

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 3:27pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Boy, as someone who really wanted some advice from DaveAngel who claimed that he had been through what we all went through and claimed that he had many books for us all and had found a way to combat the battles that were going on inside of him, I'm pretty (okay very) dissappointed that his posts have descended into those of a little two year old.  Dave, your posts aren't "a little irony" they're completely childish and unhelpful.  Can we get back to you being a voice of reason and (supposed) honesty for us all?  Even if a little harsh, that was rather much better than all this silliness and I'm still waiting for your book recommendations and for your insight which I have (so far) personally found valuable.  Please stop with these silly emails.

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 3:34pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    How morbid Ivan!
    Did I break the flow of repititious, insistent concentration?
    I have the book in my hands. Excuse me for a moment I cant stop childishly giggling...

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 3:38pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Oh, and NR, yes you may lose SallyAnn, but you know what, YOU NEVER HAD HER IN THE FIRST PLACE.  Not like you want and not like you think.  I know that I never had J now.  Not like I want.  Not like I thought.  I never was in a real relationship with her and always knew that my wife was there waiting for me at home.  I got passion and excitement from J and stability at home.  I had it all, but honestly wasn't giving anything and wasn't in EITHER relationship.
    Now I'm in exactly the same position as you.  With my wife, who if nothing else, I have come to love and respect and understand the pain I put her through and yet still realizing the spark and chemistry I had with someone else that I actually have never had with my wife.
    So what to do?  As I mentioned, start from the premise that cheating is not acceptable and causing that much pain and havoc is NOT okay.  So starting from there, the ONLY other options are to create it in your marriage or to leave.  I am with you.  It is heartbreaking to know you may never be able to create it- after all, how can you create those feelings when (at least for me) they never existing.  Its not like re-igniting a spark. 
    And how can you be the best father you can be and be 100% supportive of your wife when you are thinking of another and realizing how amazing the chemistry was and how intense the connection?  Will you always long for that?
    I don't know.  I struggle with exactly these questions, same as you.  BUT I do know that I can now look my wife in the eye and tell her I am absolutely doing my best and mean it.  I don't hide my blackberry so as to shield any texts from her.  I don't act suspicious and close my email every time she comes over to me.  I don't feel guilty and angry every time I leave the house (well, residually, yes).
    And believe me, I'm not trying to be preachy here.  I need the above advice as much as anyone, I'm just trying to offer my insights into the situation thus far and to let you know that I know exactly what you are going through.

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 3:45pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Nope, you didn't break the flow of "repititious, insistent concentration."  Actually just was really hoping you could offer the help to those people on this board who wanted it rather than going the route you seem to have taken over the last couple posts.  Especially when there are those of us who welcomed your different views on things.  Up to you though.

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 3:49pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    Nice work on the post above... quite muscular and frank... how is the lingerie shopping going by the way?
    But on a more serious note- I do have concerns about your lack of respect and  sense of equity in relation to two year olds...
    I know, I know- we goof off and cant control ourselves much, but, we are -after all- humans too...

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 3:52pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    What 'route' is that Ivan?

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 3:55pm
  • User-anonymous missrosy Flag

    pmsl daveangel can I childishly giggle with you????
    Come on the only advice any of you need is "DO THE DECENT MORAL THING". End your affairs and live with your partner's, or go off with your affair person. It is so simple. There is always a way so don't come at me saying "I have kid's to think about" etc as you are not thinking about them now are you, when you are having sex with your affair person!
    Why do some people not have any morals? Don't think I will ever understand that!

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 3:59pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    You wanna know what I am thinking right now Ivan? really?
    I think you should get off your ass and go and look around on this site and help other ppl to shed light on their difficulties...
    It is morbid the way you keep coming back to only one post. The post where sycophancy is the team spirit- a bit like an '80's easy listening' channel. Blech!
    Stop being so pompous and mock offended Ivan and break out, breathe some fresh air and do something for others on this site if you are really sincere...
    one for humanity- including two year olds...

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 4:02pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    That is harsh- loved it! Not my line though... mother nature enslaves ppl and stunts them if they are not up to the task of arming themselves with maturity...we are born to breed and cant shut it off. I guess you are a little pissed at how it is being channelled here...
    Notice how Ivan is attempting to grow a pair now though? There is hope...

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 4:08pm
  • User-anonymous missrosy Flag

    rofl.....everything these people have done they have single handely chose to do! You can't have an affair with someone if they don't want it, all it took was some moral stand and some guts. They will all slate me for tsaying this but deep down they all know it is true. They cannot handle the other side which is one of the things that really annoys me on this sort of site. How can they post and only expect someone to say "Oh I understand how you are feeling, I am going through the same"
    The whole nature of this sort of site means that you will get cheater's on here and the people left behind destroyed by the cheaters actions!

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 4:13pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    Could you plz pass the salt!

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 4:17pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Ok, so I'll take the bait again...
    So Rosy, how is it that you then think that someone like DaveAngel is high and moral when he too has admitted having an affair (or I think it was more than one?) but as he has repeated in his previous posts has learned how to deal and conquer his struggles within?  And yet you damn me (and others on this board) who, although may not be so far along in our evolution as Dave seems to be but (as you will read in all my above posts) have, in fact, stopped our affairs and realized the destruction that they cause but are now on this board grappling with the aftermath and our own feelings.  And by the way, if you go back and read some of my posts you'll certainly see that I don't "hate people like you" and only expect people to pat me on the back and say they are experiencing the same thing.
    Dave, what pray tell should I be doing to "breathe some fresh air and do something for others on this site"?  Seems to me that by responding to others posts (such as NR above) with my own experiences I might actually be (or at least trying to) helping someone.
    Funny how you are attacking me when all along I've been one of the most welcoming to your comments and your posts on this site when others took offense.  And funny how you are telling ME to help someone on this board when I've been asking for your help, your view, your books, your recommendations, etc. for quite some time, and yet- nothing.
    In any event, to me, recognizing your mistakes, trying to deal with them and address the situation rather than continuing to be immature and showing maturity- perhaps what you refer to as "growing a pair".

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 5:47pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Well, It has been an interesting few days on this thread!  I do feel a bit sad that it has lost its focus and Ivan, please do not go away to other threads.  I took a look at a few others and it seems to me that DA and Miss R have a bit of a scene going on and contribute to other threads quite a bit -'mutual backslapping' I think they called it somewhere back down the line. 
    Point is we are stuck in a dilemma and they cannot see this.  It is, I point out once again, not so black and white that we can just sort it out and carry on.  And really, that is that.  What we are doing here is trying to find ways of coping with the turmoil and stress that we feel through the anxiety, guilt, loss, hope, fear and so on. 
    My emotions swing like a pendulum through joy to grief and only those who have been through this can understand.  Even things like the weather can meke it more intense.  I long now to be with someone else, but have to wait and be patient.  You really cannot just go -ok then by husband and kids I will live with this other guy now -don't be sad cos it doesn't mean I don't love you... 

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 7:49pm
  • User-anonymous missrosy Flag

    Ivan to be honest I never have said that Daveangel is high and moral, I simply like and respect his opinions, something the people who have had or are having affairs on this thread seem to lack.
    If Daveangel was to post a thread like this aksing for advice I would be saying exactly the same to him. I dont condone, and never will condone affairs and betrayal. I think it is the lowest of things a human being can do in life.
    What I am saying is not personal attacks on you all, you all get so so defensive when someone doesnt "slap your backs". It is however my opinion and if you dont like getting both sides of the debate after all you are posting on a support website then perhaps you should not ask for advice.
    In my opinion I have done nothing wrong but to say what I think, maybe you should think about what I have said a bit more!
    April you are mad "mutual backslapping" that is what is so happening on this thread! Again I will say that we have just offered our opinions, something you all struggle with clearly!
    I so feel sorry for your partner's and what goes around does come around as some of you have already found out!

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 8:23pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I think someone stole the 'daveangel' moniker and is pretending to be him?

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 10:02pm
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    Stop whining. It is unseemly and irritating...

    Mon 1, Jun 2009 at 11:20pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    BB Here
    Hi Ivan, April, Emily,new posters and welcome to NR. I am back from my holiday and checking into this thread. I will give you an update on my position shortly.(Bet DaveAngel cant wait).
    I have to say I am probably less shocked than I should be in regards to the venerable Mr Angels descent into, well, strangeness. Oh the irony ;-). I bet you can be quite funny face to face Dave it probably just loses something in the typed word.
    Ivan, glad to see your having a real go at sorting your issues out. I do think (back slapping alert!!) you explain your thoughts and difficulties really well and I do enjoy reading your threads.
    Will post soon...

    Tue 2, Jun 2009 at 9:24am
  • Cc Morwenna Flag

    We need to remind posters of the aim of this site, as outlined in para 1.1 of the Terms and Conditions, which can be found at
    "... to provide an interactive, online service for couples and parents to access information that enables them to work on and strengthen their relationship together."
    Abuse and insulting comments posted on this and other threads are unhelpful and may even deter users who are experiencing very genuine difficulties in their relationships from feeling "safe" in airing their concerns and seeking the support of other site users.
    If you have issues you would like to discuss which are not relevant to the original subject of a particular thread, please start a new thread around that topic.
    Thanks to all of you who provide genuine discussion and support for other users, as this is very much the purpose of the site and can be enormously helpful to those in difficulty.

    Tue 2, Jun 2009 at 11:01am
  • User-anonymous DaveAngel Flag

    (Ivan, you are having me on... please...)
    What is the real topic? what are the real issues? How are you really feeling? What are the various peripheral issues? what is blocking a possible resolution? These are the real questions I seek to uncover and address, and these are the questions I am seeking to explore through various means.
    If some of you are offended or challenged and want to have a personal stab at some of the stuff I bring up- my personal approach or methodology- then I dont have a problem- you are a part of the group. But I feel my contribution is relevant, valid and important to the dialogue here and I will not give up just because you take issue through an increased sense of discomfort.
     What I attempt to do is to bring it all back to where you are at from a different perspective. It is up to you to process it and use it, add commentaries and other perspectives, or choose to ignore it. Simple.
     ...Read between the lines, take a different perspective for a minute, break out of the normal run of thoughts, have a laugh (even at yourself!), look further afield, broaden your horizons etc...this is what is on the table...
    I see you all as a group, as a culture. I sometimes view myself as a part of it, but other times I am on the outside and informed by it. Sometimes I see cultural illusions, misconceptions, dogmas and closed group think, sometimes I admire it and appreciate it and at times take communion like you all. 
    I note that- to my mind- alot of primary questions and issues are not actually recognised nor are they addressed. This is a concern which I am constantly attempting to explore, and seeing the reactions and shifts which have occurred with Suzzy and Ivan, I am encouraged to continue...
    I have some ppls attention recently for- to my mind- good reason, other ppls attention for the wrong reasons. Some of you think that my contribution is unhelpful, inappropriate or offensive. Some of it for certain reasons, most of them personal... none of the reasons presented yet address real, valid objections, nor do they merit me ignoring this article and not logging on. Others of you I share a constructive and mutually informative and entertaining dialogue with...
     I know that there are some major issues here for all of you, and if I throw a curve to the status quo it will  be for several reasons. Some of the things I am bringing up are not so much because I have an inability to empathise (which some of you seem to be subtly accusing me of without really saying it), but that is always at the core. I think empathy is primary, but there are other things we can be aware of that may just snap the threads that tie us to our old thought patterns and problem solving approaches.
    Accountability is one, healthy self reflection is another, defusing and at other times challenging also are tools worthy of merit. They are there to be used... 
    I sense everyones pain and frustration and deeply sense the struggles, tribulations and triumphs. I also sense self delusion, denials, erroneous thinking and justifications which need to be addressed (personal, social and cultural) and challenged and which do so much to continue these 'dillemmas'.
     And to those who would ask me to ignore some of the tougher questions, I ask you; whose interests are you attempting to serve?  
    All of you need to take a step back and ask yourselves- perhaps I as a part of this post community may not like daveangel, but what about the others here? Does he have something to offer even though I personally dislike or disagree with him (or others who at times are encouraged to exclude themselves).
    And I would also like to remind you that; you not only owe real, sincere self reflection to others here at Couple Connection, but that it might also perhaps serve you closer to home...where the daily struggle to connect is happening.
    Sometimes love comes in a guise that is not familiar to you, and catches you unawares; all of you know this feeling.  My hope is that the love and dedication I devote to this website is one that feeds and nourishes, that challenges and inspires, that garners trust and gathers, ultimately, friends.
    Through trial and triumph...
      the real daveangel.

    Tue 2, Jun 2009 at 2:23pm
  • User-anonymous SillySuzzy Flag

    Hi all, what the hell has been going on here!!!!!! oh well
    Though would just update my situation.
    my husband has moved out and this time I see no way back. He can not get the affair out of his head (and who can blame him) and I as said previously , dont love him anymore. I was unhappy, had an affair and this is really the for the best. Yes hard on the children, but better that living where parents either dont talk or snap. Hard road ahead but I will be happy.
    Hows you April, BB Ivan etc etc.....
    Suzzy x

    Wed 3, Jun 2009 at 8:11pm
  • User-anonymous Emilysmiles Flag

    Hi All....
    I haven't logged in for a while and didn't realise so much has been going on here whilst away. Ivan, April, Suzzy and all, I hope we are still giving each other positive emotional support and not to be put off by some insensitive remarks made.
    My life is now back on track and I mean it. Last few weeks have been good at home and I am really confident to say my affair is really way behind me and I have moved on from W/that affair. I have learned an awful lot as well and the one thing I've learned is - It was time-wasting.
    When I was seeing W, I neglected my family and in particular my kids as W was my priority. Even my housework was neglected and kitchen was piling up with dishes, clothes left unwashed etc., as I was busy going out or spending tiem on phone/emailing W. Now looking back, I realised it was all time-wasting and effort/energy wasted on something else.
    Now that life is back on track and I have no distraction, my home life is under control and my kids once again look happy, rosy and there are more laughter in the house again. My husband and I are more relaxed at home too and we just enjoy our weekend family outings now.
    I like to say, for those of you who can still save your marriage and whose affair is going nowhere, please do not waste anymore time/energy in it. Put the time/effort/energy to where it should be - your home/family.
    Suzzy, in your case, it sounds like your marriage didn't work out, I sincerely wish you all the very best and that you will find happiness again (im sure you will), please update us your end.
    I believe a few here whose marriage can still be saved and for them, please do think carefully where you put your time/energy. Good luck, all.

    Sat 6, Jun 2009 at 7:30am
  • User-anonymous NikiR Flag

    so i met sally over the weekend. i didnt want to, i felt strong but she really wanted to meet up. so she was angry and hurt and it was a mess. but seeng her recharged my soul and made me feel painfully sad that i couldn't have her all at once.
    she is the love of my life and she cant do it anymore. i asked her to wait until i sorted myself out and she didnt want any of it. so that is that. now i must figure out how i live the rest of my life knowing that ive missed my boat.

    Tue 9, Jun 2009 at 10:50pm
  • User-anonymous Waiting4TrueLove Flag

    NR - If you're still around, I would love to talk to you.  Your story is quite familiar, except I'm in SallyAnn's position.  Maybe we can kinda help each other out with some understanding of each other's position.

    Thu 16, Jul 2009 at 6:48am
  • User-anonymous Philly Flag

    I am a new member and have just read you post, you may have moved on but your story sounds like what my wife is going through. I think i will get my wife to read your story as our realationship is in tatters at the mo. The fella she is with is a shit and alot of people know it, just not my wife. I feel she may leave me and take the kids to him and he leave her for the next peice of skirt. I hope you are doing ok now.

    Mon 10, Aug 2009 at 10:57am
  • User-anonymous NikiR Flag

    Hi waiting4truelove. sorry haven't checked back here in ages.
    would love to hear from you. sallyann and i haven't seen each other for a longtime and i know that i turely love her. i think she feels the same but has blocked me out to move on from the situation.
    its odd. i have never felt the intensity of emotion i felt in her presence. she made me complete, and i can't say anyone else has made me feel that way. i know i made her feel the same, so it feels so sad knowing it wasn't meant to be.
    i miss her so much.

    Fri 4, Sep 2009 at 11:35pm
  • User-anonymous NikiR Flag

    (above from NR)

    Fri 4, Sep 2009 at 11:36pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    i undstand ur feeling and ready to share with u contact with me on my this e-mail
    [Personal data removed as breaching anonymity in contravention of tems and conditions of this site]

    Sat 26, Sep 2009 at 10:50am
  • User-anonymous NikiR Flag

    Hey there. im sorry i missed your email, it would have been great to speak.
    things aren't much better. sallyann and i haven't spoken or contacted each other for sometime. and it hurts like hell.
    i guess the worst of it is i feel i'll never recover as she was someone i pined after since we split when i was twenty. and now 14 years later, we got on so well, and she felt so unlike anyone else i've ever met - it was like going home. it makes me sick to think about her even now because she was such a huge part of my life.
    [personal information removed as it contravenes the site's Terms and Conditions]. it would be great to hear your story.
    best wishes

    Tue 6, Oct 2009 at 1:28pm
  • User-anonymous TrulyG Flag

    Dear All
    I have read this post with extreme interest.  Like some of you have commented it is great to know that I am not the only one experiencing the trials of an affair.  Like most of you above I have fallen head over heels madly in love with a married man....certainly never thought I would ever find myself in this position, but it has happened.  I have seen people who have entered into "office" type affairs and have often tutted to myself and sterotyped the people involved as liars and wrong can you get!
    My story.....I am a single parent with one son (his father was a holiday romance that went horribly wrong and parted mutually).  I moved to a new town with my son three years ago.  Whilst taking a break from decorating we visited the local pub for a breather.  It was a lovely day so we sat outside.  Its wasn't very busy in the beer garden and there was a group of lads having a pint in there too.  I noticed one of them, my heart skipped a beat, he was so handsome and had a beautifully defined musculer body, he was simply drop dead gorgeous.  After a while a car pulled up and he went over and was talking to the driver for a while.  It was a woman and there were two children in the car.  My heart sank, he must be married I told me friend.  Any way she drove off and he returned.  He passed me on his way back to the bar and glanced over at me.  He did the same on the way back too.  I told my friend, perhaps the woman in the car was his sister as he was making it obvious that he was checking me out as much as I was him.  We then left but couldn't stop thinking about him.  It was months after that I saw him again.  There was a carnival in the town.  I took my son down to enjoy the attractions etc. And there was a fire engine that the kids to look inside etc.  I could see this guy in the fire service uniform and recognised him straight away as being the guy from the pub.  My heart stopped and I quickly rushed away and didn't see then again but I did drive by the fire station often hoping to catch a glimpse but never did.  Months later I ended up working for a local firm in town as a receptionist on a temporary basis and got friendly with the people that used to pass through reception on a daily basis.  One of them was a really friendly chatty foreman and we have a giggle.  One day I noticed that this foreman had a fire service t-shirt on under his overalls.  I asked him about the guy and told him how handsome I thought he was. He was laughing his head off and making me go red with embarrasment.  I asked him what was so funny.  It turned out that the guy I had described and that I knew he was a fireman only worked at the same place as us both and that this foreman was a good friend!  I could have died on the spot!  The foreman eventually told the guy that he had an admirer (I'll call him B).  After that B came to reception quite a lot to use the photocopier or he'd drive passed from the carpark and look in, Id simply freeze .  (He later admitted to spying on me from across the building at every opportunity.)
    Anyway my temporary contracted then ended.  I was gutted but I was was then going to work at a place on the same industrial estate so I knew that I could "bump" into him as I knew his shift patterns etc.  I was working at my new job for little less than a week.  I received an email from the foreman friend of B. Apparently B was gutted that Id left and had asked for my telephone number, by this time I had established that he was married with two children so I took days of deliberation and then thought "what the hell" lifes too short. A little harmless txt flirting would be ok.....
    That was nearly two years ago.  We both have fallen madly in love with each other and the sex is out of this world.  Then his wife found out..........obviously she went berserk!  She was banging on my door and calling on the phone me etc. She smashed up the house and kicked him out.  Things died down and he returned home to do some damage limitation etc.  He promised he would never see me again.....that was two years ago and we havn't stopped seeing each although we are ultra careful. We have had wknd away etc and have been so madly smitten and proud to be on his arm and he feels the same.   he wishes that he had met me twenty years ago and has been very honest in saying that he wouldn't be leaving his wife yet etc because of the children.  I have never pressured him either.  I knew he was married with kids and commitments but I have recently decided I want more.  I see him nearly every day and we are in constant touch on the phone.  He knows that I want more and has said that he will be gutted if I decided to end it.......don't know what to do.  I wont make him choose between me and his children but I want to spend more quality time with him....

    Mon 12, Oct 2009 at 2:55pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    It doesn't seem anyone is posting to this any longer...if anyone is still out there, I could really use an ear.  Found all of your posts just recently and have been avidly reading.  So much I can agree with....  The short story of me:  together for 24 years, 18 married, 2 kids (young 8 and 4) all was well up to the point of kids entering the picture, but after the first we we're managing.  Second baby put him over the edge, first few months of the birth I was busy (overwhelmed) with the kids, house, working again FT, exhausted, he felt left out (due to lack of sex) and acted out.  Thought he was having an affair but swears he wasn't but withdrew from all of us totally.  One day agreed to counseling and dropped the bomb he doesn't want to be married anymore.  Months of therapy, fighting, crying and no progress.  Finally the stress of everything got to me (there's lots more but don't want to bore) and I told him fine, if this is what he wanted - it's done.  He moved out at my request.  Static relationship, scared about the kids out with him (he admits that he resents them), lots of drama.  One day (about six months into separation) tells me he thinks he made a mistake.  We try to work things out, he moves back home in May 09 after a year plus of being gone (big mistake) nothing works.  I'm too hurt and angry and he doesn't make any changes either, although he has become a much better dad.  This has been going on for 4 years!  Also need to say we haven't had sex in these 4 years as well.  Back in Sept I told him it was over, nothing is woking and this needs to end.  He's not happy and I must admit he is trying to be good but for me I just feel like it's too late.  Too much hurt and awful things said and done to repair this.  Now, recently I reconnected with an old friend from 25 years ago.  We dated but nothing ever progressed - no big deal.  Over the years we ran into each other but timing was always off, I was dating, he was dating, he was off to the military, etc...and we lost track of each other until now - but always lots of chemistry between us.  So we find each other on-line - kind of an accident actually, I'm pretty much done with my marriage and he's on the brink of ending his.  Like two misplaced souls we found each other and everything just clicked again.  It's been wonderful and scary too.  Everything moved along so quickly but we love each other terribly, and would love to be together but of course it's complicated with the kids and everything and the circumstances we're in are even worse.  Don't know what to do and have been driving myself crazy thinking of all of this.  I'm also soooo scared.  Just need to hash this out with others that have been through it...

    Fri 8, Jan 2010 at 4:17pm
  • User-anonymous aleeisconfused Flag

    wow all these stories sound so familiar in so many ways!
    Maybe we can help eachother out or at least be there for eachother in some way.  My story is very similar to the rest.. I will make it brief as possible.
    Here is my timeline.:
    Married for 2 years and I found out I could not have children.  Infertility and my obssession with having a baby is what my husband says made him stray at 7 years of marrige.  He told me he was in love with her and they worked together.  I was so shocked.  I knew I had lost him.  My best friend suggested I go on a date not for anything serious but just so that I could see my husband is not the last fish in the sea.  I knew a guy who came to my job who was very very attractive.  I called him and asked him out for a drink and he said yes.  and eventhough we agreed that we would never have anything serious... I started to fall in love with him.  Meanwhile my husband tells me one day that the woman that he was having an affair with was pregnant.  (If you remember I was told I could not have children)  I was devistated to say the least.  My husband saw that my relationship with this other man was taking alot of my time and decided that he wanted me back and he wanted our marrige.  and he asked that we move across the country and leave our lives behind us and start over.  I will admit that I accepted mostly for revenge.  Against the two of them.  I did not want them together after all they put me through.  Also I chose to leave and just quickly say goodbye to (we will call him Mr G).  Life has been pretty good.  we do not argue much we love eachother (although I wonder if we are IN love)  and 5 years ago I got pregnant.  We have a sweet and wonderful and adorable little 4 year old. 
    as far as Mr G. well...... we have seen eachother since I moved cross country 4 times in the last 7 years.  only talked and emailed a few times a year since the baby was born,.  I dedicated my self to be a wife and a mom and a church parishioner and volunteer, and working full time.  Perfect... My husband is a wonderful father ,. our families are so happy to see us as such a happy family... UNTIL......... Sept of 2009.  Mr G sent me a casual email on ... dare I say it... facebook.... and while I was reading it I noticed he was on chat and i said hello... well that evening we talked from 9pm to 4am.  about everything and how strong our feelings for eachother still where.  How he thought we would be together and how he never forgot me. (it has been 8 years total since our first "date").
    so that was Sept.  we are at the end of Jan and my mind is completely consumed with him.  I think of him night and day... I wait for his texts at night.  I sleep in my sons room with the excuse that he wakes up so much in the middle of the night that i need to be near him so I can get some sleep myself.  I wait and hope that he texts me.  If he does not text me I feel sad and upset and when he does text me It gives me 2 days of pure happiness !!!.  He has told me to say the word and he would leave his girlfriend and move cross country to be with me.  He says that we should do this already.  but then I do not hear from him for a few days... He says he can't always text and I understand that. ( I guess)...  The passion I have for him is huge.. and I think I just have lost it all for my husband he just dissapointed me so much that I love him as a person, I adore him and I know it would just kill him and my family if I asked for a divorce.
    So for now I wait... Hope Mr G does not put his foot down and give me an ultimatum... I hope that I can figure something out because I need to get some sleep again...  I have not seen Mr. G all our contact is through phone mostly long hours of texting a few nights a week.  He says he will be flying down soon to see eachother but not sure when that will be. 
    Let me know if you can relate,.. I would love to know what happened to the ladies in the begining of this thread
    Take care and hang in there !!!

    Mon 25, Jan 2010 at 10:01pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    What a wonderful blog. I have red all of it and for the first time since I found out that my wife had been cheating on me with another man I understand what she was doing, what she was thinking and how it went so far and did so much damage. I am now destroyed by he deciet her treachery and so is our famliy. My daughter can ony just talk to her and my son does not want to know. I have been hurt and so have they and my wife has nothing to show for this gross act, just complete loss of self respect and dignity and the loss of her familiy. This was a selfish and careless act. She never stopped, had no care and no sense check. If she knew then what today would bring she would never of done it. So ladies; who are in this situation take a lesson from me and my family. 32 years of hapiness is left screded on the floor, the love of children for a mother is there, but no respect. As for me, I am in peices. Our freinds and family all know now and none can believe what she did and for so long, 18 months.
    I am now faced with life on my own, my life partner is gone. I can't find away of forgiving her as her conduct was so dispicable, including me getting a sexual infection, him being at her 50th Birthday and struting round like a peacock. Me staying at his Flat in Spain and being shunned by her in front of my best mate. My son and daughter being set against eachother by lies.
    No, stop while you can. Keep it from your husband and remind yourselves why you married, who the two of you are and make it work. History and the past are all part of your future together. Forget that and all is lost. You made a vow to love honor and obey. Remember,  if he is still there for you, you and you alone can fix this problem. Talk to him, tell him how you feel. Find common ground. Don't make the mistake my wife made. It is not worth it!

    Fri 12, Feb 2010 at 10:49am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I have read the postings above and totally sympathise with the poster. I have been having an affair for 9 and a half years with my husband's friend! Me and his wife are friends too and we have all been friends for a very long time. I never asked to fall for him and sometimes i wish I had never met him! I met his wife first and we all gradually became friends. The kids have grown up together, we go on holidays together, spend Christmas together etc etc. He had a short term affair prior to me which he told her about. he has lived under that shadow for all these years, yet still started an aaffair with me!! He never told me about his affair, she did some years later. I remember feeling as if I had been shot,as he was just standing there! Maybe I should have walked away then but i guess i was emotionally involved by that point. We both have children, and he will never leave her because of them and the pain he caused her with his first affair! My husband is a good man, but he was a safety marriage as I had come out of a very abusive relationship before I met him so never particularly passionate as it were!
    I love my children and would never deprive them of their father. We don't argue, but we don't really communicate either. Sometimes I wonder if he knows anything but he never says. I think he would be too scared of losing me. I think his wife is the same. I think she knows full well their relationship is not great, though she always makes a big deal out of wedding anniversaries etc (which is very hard for me as there have been many occasions where she is texting me while they are out celebrating etc).
    I often feel very unsettled about my life as i'm living a double life. This relationship will never change and in some ways I have become resentful towards him as i feel he just lies to everyone. He tells me he loves me but I just think he likes having a bit of excitement when it suits him!! Probably because I am not so all over him all the time at the moment, he becomes cool towards me. he loves this happy bouncing person but i can't be like that all the time. Things get to me. Once you become emotionally involved it is harder to break away. And how can I? Their children love me, she and my husband don't know anything about it. I could not remain freinds if i ended it. After almost ten years how do you do that? Coping with the emotion is the hardest thing. And that's what I struggle with

    Mon 13, Sep 2010 at 11:53am
  • User-anonymous devilrd Flag

    I am dying to know what happened with your the same whirlwind mess but I have everyone of my family members opinion too!!  Please let me know,

    Mon 27, Sep 2010 at 9:05pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hi, I have just been reading most of the posts in this topic and have found it really helpful.  I have some how managed to get myself into a similar situation.  My partner (he never wanted to commit to marriage) of 5 years with who i had a beautiful daughter with has left the family home today, as i asked him to.  It has been a very stressful relationship, no sex for two years, no respect for me from him, putting me down all the time . . . i could go on.  I finally woke up and reaslised i deserved more.  It took the affection of another man to make me realise this.  He is a work colleague, nothing happened (appart from harmless flirting) during the year we worked together.  At a social gathering which we were both at we got together.  We have seen each other a couple of times and it was amazing (he's single by the way) he has wooed me, cared for me, sent me messages telling me to turn tv over and sweet caroline was playing, x's at the end of text messages.  Shown me all around his house, what his plans are, i've met his son... then on sunday we were ok he didnt pull away from any of my advances, but didnt instigate any either ( not talking sex, but hand holding and kissing on lips) i gave him a cuddle and he kissed my head.  He knows this week is the week where my partner moves out.  We had arranged to meet prior to this, but when i tried to contact him i got no reply.  I can't decide whether to call him tonight, i m now single (not because of him!) but also wondering has he not contacted me to give me space to sort this stuff out or has he lost interested.  Knowing him as i do he is not the sort of person just to ignore.  Please help put some perspective on this situation.  thank you.

    Fri 15, Oct 2010 at 4:34pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Wow, I'm so glad I stumbled upon this post.  I always thought I was the only one that was going through a messy situation. In a way, it gives me a tiny bit more peace from my guilt, knowing that we don't do this because we are selfish (debatable *sigh*) and don't love our spouses anymore.  I love my husband, but the sexual attraction just isn't there anymore.
    I recently started a new assignment and happened to meet a co worker who was very nice to me.  We went out a couple of times (just as friends), but one night we were out drinking and he asked me if I can keep a secret.  Then he gave me a kiss (on the lips) and told me how he felt about me the past few weeks, and how working next to my office was very difficult.  It started from there.  Unfortunately, I'm practically married (engaged), and he's been married for over a decade (though his relationship is rocky).  I felt so guilty and I know it's very wrong, but I can't stop. We pretend like we don't know each other at work (many people at work have met his wife before), and it's driving me nuts.  But how can I expect him to act any differently, if I myself can't even live up to my current engagement commitment?
    Oh the situations we put ourselves into....

    Wed 17, Nov 2010 at 12:36am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I would never have believed that I'd stray from my marriage. However after 3 years of virtual, husband initiated, celibacy I was feeling so down and unloved that I tentatively joined extra-marital dating site Illicit Encounters earlier this year (leaving hubbie and kids was not an option for me). Since then, I've met my wonderful and sensitive lover on the site (who was also trapped in an unhappy marriage) and our fortnightly illicit liaisons have restored my self worth and I'd venture to say have saved my marriage! Having an affair is a huge step, but not always wrong.

    Thu 25, Nov 2010 at 10:05am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Escape, freedom and over all sex with no strings attached three perfect reasons of getting involved in extra marital affairs. after the primary reasons there are secondary mostly for females of the human species they are attention, boredom,sympathy, low self esteem and lust. when ever you consider having an affair there is just one question you should ask your self and that is "DID I GET MARRIED FOR THE RIGHT REASONS?" if the answer is no then go ahead have an affair cause the marriage was never meant to be the marriage was a mistake.  The affair was just a pointer towards the mistake. As humans we love to have choices some are good some are almost ugly. But we do make decisions every moment of the day. I just hope an individual makes the right decision when it matters the most. aah yes but in the heat of the moment we do get carried over but thats something thats just done and forgotten just don't try to over analyze the situation it gets no where. You enjoyed it now its time to forget about it and move on. It is time to concentrate on the more important things in life. The problems when you get emotional attachment with this other person. That is a very sticky situation to get out of and it can make you feel miserable. Here you should ask yourself one question and you have to be truely honest to your heart when asking your self," what are my priorities is it my family or myself, who comes first?" if its you then you know the answer if its your family then you still know the answer. The choice and the decision is yours and yours alone. As you are member of a family and a part of the society in general so yes it is going to affect the family and the society. Yes there will be reactions some pleasant and some unpleasant but you just have to accept them with grace, take them in your stride and move on. After all some one has said and I quote,"the only thing that is constant is change.", some have problems adapting to it same are okay with it what counts is when it happens you have to put your best foot forward. Happy families make happy communities and happy communities build a solid nation. But heres the catch happiness is in short supply unless you know where to find it. so start searching and go find it.     

    Sun 28, Nov 2010 at 11:43am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    It is the responsibility of men to take care of their wives in every aspect of their life and not leave them to strangers to cover for their emotional feelings. If a man starts an affair then the wife may well follow secretly. My advice is to control that BIG BEAST of your sexual desires and save yourselves lots of troubles. Do not adopt animal life but rather adopt the life who you really are - a human. What is the difference between animals and humans? Intellect, the ability to hold information, process it and make sensible decision based on the long-term outcome of the options available! The ability to control oneself! Otherwise animals too can eat, drink, sleep, and have sex. What they don't have is control. This is what brings destruction to people, inability to abstain from whims and desires! 

    Wed 12, Jan 2011 at 6:28am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I am April from many of the posts above -well over a year ago now.  to sum up what happned to me:
    I left my husband for my lover and am now living with him.  Are any of the old posters still out there?  I wondered what happened to you?  Suzzie or Emilysmiles? 
    I have gone through hell and high waters and back again. It is such a long story even since my last post.  We both left our spouses and then he went back after 3 days.  I went home too, with my tail between legs -then we started seeing each other again and his wife confronted him one day and said choose... he chose me and sent me a text saying so!  I waited for 6 weeks and then left my family -my kids are at uni but they were still devastated.  My husband tried to kill himself and is still ill with depression -off work.  But I needed to leave.  sometimes I am happy and other times I feel so sad at leaving and missing them so much.  My new man has a lot of baggage as his kids are younger and he works with his wife still!! 
    You need to read my earlier posts to put in perspective -but I did do it.  I left the marriage.  I would dvise anybody that this is much harder than you think it will be in your cosie afair world.  Really think hard -you need to understand ow much you will lose.  And, terrible things can still happen.  I have a firend that did what I did and two of her children still do not speak to her and then her new man died -literally overnight -very young- just dropped dead.  Now she has lost everything.  Sad things still happen even when you are in love. 
    I needed to do what I have done, but it hurts -and others judge.  It is not easy.  the price is high all round.  Some days though I think I am brave and I did the difficult thing not the easy thing -and I was honest.  Living the lie of an affair is a hellish state. 
    April x

    Wed 12, Jan 2011 at 11:32pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    If you knew how it felt to be cheated on, lied to, made a fool out of, have your heart crushed and ripped out your chest you would never even begin comtimplating having an affair. And for those of you who are married yet having an affair, what about those vows you so 'solemnly declared' to your so called 'loved one'? I have no time for people who treat others like this, let alone treat the ones who are supposed to be our rock in life with such disregard. You may comfort yourselves with each other over the internet from the comfort of your sofa, and feel sorry for yourselves about your 'plight' but I hope you feel every ounce of guilt that lays heavily on your shoulders. Shame on the lot of you.

    Tue 5, Apr 2011 at 10:36am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    ive just found out my wife has been texting a lad she knew years ago she said it has stopped but now she says she doesnt want me and is wasting her life we have been married 3 years but been together 16 years and have 4 children together,now ive found this web site that she looked at last night and she has also shaved her privates but yet she would never shave them for me and now im worried that she is cheating on me so i know what you are going through and have my sympathy 

    Mon 9, May 2011 at 2:17pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    There is a lot of wisdom..learned from experience in some of the comments  on this thread...see April's above, on 12th January.  Maybe you could listen to what is making your wife feel she is wasting her life and see if there is a way forward for the two of you in the marriage.  The material on the site e.g the video on 'stages of relationships' might give you some insight into what is going on for you as a couple.   

    Mon 9, May 2011 at 3:08pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    There is a lot of wisdom..learned from experience in some of the comments  on this thread...see April's above, on 12th January.  Maybe you could listen to what is making your wife feel she is wasting her life and see if there is a way forward for the two of you in the marriage.  The material on the site e.g the video on 'stages of relationships' might give you some insight into what is going on for you as a couple.   

    Mon 9, May 2011 at 3:08pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    April again, I thought an update was needed.  I am still living with my new man after leaving my marriage but it is hard going.  I should have left and been single for a while and enjoyed the 'dating' phase rather than jumping straight into this relationship.  I miss my home and my family and the new guy is really not as great as he seemed during the affair.  I think I need to break out of my current situation -just not feeling good most of the time as too much baggage on both sides.  I think resentment is building on both sides -I would suggest to anyone that you deal with the relationship you are in before starting a new one.  You have to remember that when you are in the early stages the passion blinds you... April x

    Sat 21, May 2011 at 7:15pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I really feel for you - you sound so sad and burdened by your earlier decision, even though it feels like the right thing for you to have done. Have you thought of counselling? It might help both you and your present partner to see things more clearly and find out what's really going on between you. I expect you've been through the site, but even checking out the 'getting on better' section might open up all sorts of better communication between you. It might help to remind yourselves why you fell for each other in the first place - that can get lost in the humdrum of daily existence.

    Wed 25, May 2011 at 3:48pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    this has given me a nasty jolt.i have only been married 2 years to my husband with one daughter now 4.i used to be a stick thin fashionista all designer labels and makeup.i am only 22 now but doing everything so young has changed things.i am no longer thin(not fat but not thin) anbd can no longer afford all the designer hair dos husband always says he feels let down by me as i have "put on so much weight and let myself go".he calls me fat and lazy.i try to diet but i never lose weight and i always do my best to look good but he never even looks.we never have sex anymore and if we do he quits halfway through as i am not a turnon for him anymore.when we see other women that are "all that" he stares in wonder and says "why cant you look like that?".this has hurt me and damaged my confidence so badly i cry all the time and am now on antidepressants.we argue over trivial things usually about what i have just mentioned.he is cruel to my daughter always telling her off for typical 4 year old things and winding her up.i recently started talking to an old friend from school.ill call him S.we started talking about life problems,all the usual and then after a few weeks he admitted that he had always had a thing for me but had been to shy to ask me out.sounds cheesy i no but he is generally a shy person.we arranged to meet up and we had drinks,went to see a film,had food etc and it was all very friendly,no funny business at all.i didnt tell my husband though as i felt what i was doing was "inappropraite even though we hadnt actually done anything.when we met for tea a few weeks ago he said that i looked stunning and i was perfect and beautiful and i hadnt changed a bit.he has given me such a boost.i feel special,sexy,funny,adored and young again.he kissed me a few days ago and since then we have been meeting once a week.we only ever kiss and cuddle it has never gone further but i feel if he did want it to(which he has mentioned he does) then i dont think i would be unwilling.i feel terrible for betraying my husband but i feel he has betrayed me too in many first i pulled away as i thought it was just me doing pathetic payback but has time has gone on i have realised i really value his friendhsip and affection.he has said that he would like a relationship with me properly and wouldnt be daunted by a child but for some ridiculous reason i dont want to let go of my husband.i feel i detest him sometimes but the other night i was laying next to him and he was asleep and i thought "why cant you love me when i love you?"....

    Mon 13, Jun 2011 at 1:49pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    feeling a lot better these days and getting on well with new guy.  Shows you that it is all ups and downs... April

    Wed 10, Aug 2011 at 7:16pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    This thread has been a real help.

    I recently ended an affair of 7 months. I have been married for 10 years (married young) and have two young children. I never thought I would ever have an affair and have shown my digust at others in the past when I was told of them having affairs.

    I am so ashamed of my behaviour but at least understand why I have committed the affair.

    I have jeopordised my relationship with my family as our relationships have been changed and I am only now trying to re-build with my husband. I am so lucky because he is willing to forgive and work to make us happier than we have ever been. I am now 100% committed too. I cannot believe that I was willing to give up my family when in reality my marriage just needed a kick up the back-side. I am such a foolish woman.

    To all of you in a similar situation, I totally agree with the posters who advise to try and sort out home first.

    I can't change the past but I can do everything in my power to try and forgive myself, work on my marriage and be the best mum I can be. And I will. And, that is what will make me happy.

    Sorry, had to get that off my chest.

    Wed 24, Aug 2011 at 12:08pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Well, who says we plan on certain events in life right? It is always easy to make a judgement call until you have had encountered a similar experience or was involved in this type of situation. The Reason this caught my eye is I have been struggling for the last four days to get over what this woman told me at a party. This is usually a family reunion on my wife's family so we head out to town for a few days to party, relax and catch up with family members since we don't see them often. Anyway, as the party progressed, I'm the type that will socialize with everyone, whereas they are some people once they found their spot, they stay there all night. I was introduced to this woman, which I will call her Sandy. Once me and Sandy met, it was like an instant attraction. She's beautiful, funny and spontanious. We were flirting a little, nothing that would make any of our other half uncomfortable and you have to remember, most of us are like that and well, I keep it clean and always make sure that I do not make anyone else feel uncomfortable. Throughout the night, Sandy had her share to drink, and so did I... but I was feeling at the happy stage and this is my limit. Me and Sandy danced a lot together, laughed, cuddled but nothing more. As the party slowed down, it was pass 1am, I said goodnight to everyone including Sandy. As I went in the house, I was getting ready for bed, then a few minutes later, I saw Sandy. She was feeling pretty happy and we sat and talked for a bit. Then she started to tell me how cute I was and how attracted she was to me. Well, I told her that this was a very nice compliment and I told her that I was really attracted to her as well but I told her, as much as this is so tempting, we are both married and we have good marriages, you know? Sandy realized that I was right but we struggled so hard not to kiss or to do anything since this kind of attraction is so tempting, and even more tempting when you know you can't do anything about it. She did ask me if I would keep in contact with her and I said yes, I told her we are able to be honest with eachother so I see a good friendship on the horizon. I told her that it was really hard for me to say no to her to fool around and I said "We are both adults, I'm glad we were smart to talk about it and did the mature thing. Let's say we would of done something, we live far from eachother for one, and two we are married. Even if our marriages were in shambles, it would not make it right". After all this, she was a little upset, and said "you are no fun, I'm heading back to the party" and I knew she was frustrated at the situation and not me. The next morning, she was all fine and dandy with me, and I was too. I never told her I didn't sleep all night, and that I was thinking about her and maybe I missed an opportunity to change my life and maybe move somewhere different and start a new life, all this stuff has been on my mind since. It's been four days, and I still feel sad. How messed up is that, really? I really don't know what to do anymore and I haven't told anyone about this situation which I think it's making it worse at the moment. I know for a fact me and Sandy made a really really hard decision but the right one but yet, I feel so heartbroken, and a little upset... and yet there is the "and... but... " situation. Any feedback would be great. This is a new experience for me, I never had this happen before, so I'm stuck in a bind here.

    Wed 8, Aug 2012 at 4:13pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I really am not sure what's going on with your relationship, but I know personally I've been involved with someone with whom I've become attached too both mentally and physically. It's been 10 months since I've known him and we've become so close we can discuss anything with each other and not feel the slightly bit strange about it.

    I am married, have been married since 1988, been with my husband since I was 15 that was 1984, so we are talking a life time together. However, in the past few years things changed. I've felt myself pulling from him. I've found myself not seeing him the same way I once did. I don't know, could be because jobs changed, money problems happened, life got in the way I don't know, but I find myself not attracted to him. However, I did stay with him because he was/is all I know. I've never lived a life of my own, I've always had someone to tell me what to do, how to act, etc. I'm just now in my 40's finding out that I want to find out who I am. It may sound selfish I know, because its so unfair to my husband, but I see him as a father figure or brotherly figure rather than a partner. I do love him don't get me wrong. My life would not be what it is today without his support, but I feel I've outgrown what we had. Again, sounds terribly selfish and I feel even more guilty for the fact that I couldn't bring myself to tell him.

    I finally did after having a mini break down one day. I confessed pretty much everything except my feelings for this other man. I probably should have told all, but at the time what I was talking about had nothing to do with that and it would have caused more insult to injury if I told, so I kept quiet. My current fella knows all this, since I've been completely truthful with him. He understands and is supportive, which is kind of sweet.

    I'm stuck in a place now where I need to make a major decision. No one can answer it for me, its something I must do for myself. I've weighed all the pro's and con's of the situation and now must grow a set of balls, so to speak. I find that at 44, I'm in an odd place. Do I really want to go on with a marriage that hasn't been satisfying for many years or try and dare to do something different. It's so hard and its a personal choice, for me I see it as my life slipping away in an okay, safe, secure none romantic marriage, or finding someone I can be happy and grow old with. I'm sort of leaning toward finding the happy and growing old with part.

    People tell you the grass isnt always greener on the other side and that may be true, but you gotta try right, I mean how else will you know if it can happen or not. I don't know whether it will be a mistake, something I'll regret the rest of my life, but its a change I need to take. Again, sound selfish because I know someone is going to get hurt, but then again how do I know that its not for the best, that it will work out peacefully for all.

    I lay in bed awake at night thinking things until my brain hurts. I don't want to hurt the only man I've known all my life, but then again this same man keeps me from being who I am and being happy. I am half the person I feel I could be. The only question is how to tell him. How does one tell someone they aren't in love with them anymore and wants to leave the only life they've ever know. It's hard and people will have all sorts of things to say about it, but in the end its me who has to do it and I'm the one who has to live with the choice I make, be it good or bad.

    I don't know what your situation is, but you need to do whats best for you and no matter what anyone else tells you, its you who has to decide and its you who has to live with the result of that decision.

    I wish you the best...hell I wish us the best because I'm feeling it too. I have faith though, that everything happens for a reason. I just pray that my reason is the best for me and not a momentary fling.

    Good luck in all you do, hugs.

    Tue 2, Oct 2012 at 3:27am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    hi all,
    I've read all the posts here and it seams that I'm not the only one having problems.
    I'm married too with a wonderful man, he's kind, gently and he loves me very much but my bedroom story isn't the same. We are like brothers and sisters and he has no initiative in bad and I'm sick and tired to be the first who makes the moves all the time. I'm also a mum and I am so proud of my familly and kids.
    I've met a colegue of my husband years ago and I instantly fall in love for him. He is not leaving in the same country but for bussiness reasons he's coming once a mounth. My husband even invite him to our house several times or we had dinners in town, or we went to parties together but I never had the courage to make a sign of how I feel. A month ago we went to another party together and I was very upset because my husband spend almost all the time with another female. I tried not to show my disappointment and I tried so hard to have fun. Of course that I danced with the others but somewhow I ended up in this men's arms. He whispered me then that he always considered me a very beautiful woman and that he had strong feelings for me. I was so shocked and I couldn't believe my ears. Nothing happened between us then because there were too many peoples around but when he left the country he called me. We started to see each other on skype, and text message and talk daily on the phone.
    He's not married and 5 years younger than me, he's the oposite of my husband. It has no use to tell you what I feel for him, I fell like a teenager and my heart explodes anytime I hear his voice....
    Two days ago I made him promise that we stop this game because it's not a fair game. I wanted to stop because he is about to come again for his mounthly meeting and I don't think I can held myself. I made him promise that he would refuse any of my husband invitation to dinner or something else. I don't want to see him now but I feel miserable. I dreamt him all night last night and I cannot stop thinking of him. I'm full of guit for my husband and I don't know what to do. I'm crying almost all the time, my house is a mass. To my husband I explained my state telling him I miss my mum- she passed away 4 years ago in 2nd of october and obviously he believed me.
    We had virtual sex but it felt so good, he made me feel a woman again. All I want is jump into a plane and fly to him and have sex together but I can't do that and everything is so paintfull. I prayed for him to call me, to hear his voice again, but the phone is silent and I sit and cry. I cancelled all my apointments for today and I have to calm myself because in an hour my kids will be home and I don't want to see me in this state.
    Please, anyone can tell me what to do?

    Thu 4, Oct 2012 at 11:23am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    From reading your post I think that deep down you do know what to do. You say that your husband is a wonderful man and you're so proud of your family and kids. This is the reality of being a wife and mother. You say you feel like a teenager around this other man, and this seems wonderful, but how long will it last? Is there a reason for your husband's lack of interest in the bedroom?-stress, depression, worries are just some of the things that will affect libido. Work on sorting this out and enjoy what you have rather than risk it all for a romantic dream. I hope things improve for you.

    Fri 5, Oct 2012 at 1:28pm
  • User-anonymous chattykathy Flag


    I'm new to this site but I feel compelled to share my experience with you. I was exactly like you with a lovely husband, 2 great kids, nice home etc, all absolutely lovely. Then, a friend, P (name removed to preserve anonymity), started taking an interest in me, flirting etc and the next thing I know I'm totally obsessing about him. Eventually after about 18 months of flirting we began an affair that would last 12 years, yes, 12 years! My husband realised what was going on but except for the odd remark never did a thing about it. Of course, this gave us a green light and I justified it by thinking my husband didn't really care about me.Cutting a very long story short eventually I left my husband (both the children were away at Uni by then) for P. who had to break up from his wife. At first we were totally selfish and only cared that we were really happy together even though it caused heartache and grief to our families, children and friends. We bought a house together but soon the reality of what we had done hit home. I remember waking up one morning and thinking, 'what have I done!!? I could not stop the tremendous feelings of guilt and shame and kept looking back at all the horrible, selfish actions I had taken and how much I had hurt my husband who had done nothing wrong. It's amazing how much I had invented about my husband to justify my affair. I feel this is what you are doing now. My children accepted what happened and became friends with P. but I tell you NOTHING beats the feeling of being Mum and Dad and enjoying your family. I came to resent P. and eventually this and the guilt ruined our relationship and I left him earlier on this year, after 6 years together.We had gone through my daughter getting married and having a baby but sharing this with P. and not my husband was awful.I realised my family and us all being together was the most important thing to me. I'm now back to my old, original values and believe or not my husband and I are rekindling our relationship!! Obviously taking it very slowly. We recently had a big family holiday and it was just wonderful to be Mum and Dad (and Nanny and Grandad!!) together. My family and in laws have been so supportive and forgiving, I feel so privileged and extremely lucky. All I can say to you is listen to your inner doubts. You're worried about W's commitment already. Can you really break up your family on the hope he starts to feel differently? I would suggest you go for counselling on your own, they will help you think it through. It's natural for you to feel good about yourself when someone is showing an interest but you have to think about the enormity of it all. Lust doesn't last but you think it will when you're in the middle of it. If you do finish with W. one tip I wish I had carried out is to delete his number and get yourself a new one and don't 'remain friends'. I 'tried' to give up P. many times but looking back now I realise it what half hearted. My kids love me but I know I altered their view of me when I left their dad and this is so hard to live with.I'm sorry this a bit garbled and jumps around but I have so much to say that I can't possbly do on here. I will finish by saying, end it properly, get counselling, concentrate on your husband and family and I sincerely hope you are happy and fulfilled in the future. X

    Sun 7, Oct 2012 at 10:57am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Thank you so much for sharing these thoughts and experiences - really inspiring.

    Wed 5, Jun 2013 at 1:02pm
  • User-anonymous mk34 Flag

    This is my first time on this blog and I have to give you my story...
    I have written a very long version of my story for myself. But I will keep this short...
    My story is much like a few I have seen here. I am going into my 24th year of marriage to a girl I met in university.
    We now have 4 kids... Oldest in University - youngest in grade 6.
    About 10 years go I started rethinking life, religion, politics, society structures and things... I am an artist at heart with a passion for all things experiential. My day job is a graphic designer/photographer/videographer. My wife is some-one who is down to earth - family focused and very generous with her time. The only thing is that I have felt for sometime that we have no real connections but those of kids and history. We do have a great sex life when we make time for it. But there have been times when that is very sparce.
    6 years ago we met a couple who was fun to hang around with. He worked at for the Mayor and "N" is a artist/graphic designer/photographer - like me. We hit it off... talking about all the same things. She is classy, creative, warm, open, artistic, amazing and very sexy. One afternoon I decided to show her some glamour photography work I had just started doing and she was very interested and showed me some progressive independent film that was fairly edgy sexually. My wife at the same time thought it would be interesting to bring a 3rd person into our bedroom. We talked about swinging but didn't really take it very far. Until one night after a few drinks and while our friends husband was out, we did engage in a three some... It was light, we didn't take it too far but there definitely was a spark.
    On the work front - I invited N to start being a part of my business and work as a contractor. We started working together and she and her husband and their son started hanging out at our place.
    I started falling for her... I really wanted to be with her more. And though my wife was interested in the "play" (she wanted to be a part of anything I wanted) i was interested in the emotional and artistic connection I was feeling for N.
    3 years ago, N and I started to get physical and that was explosive for me. All I have been able to do since then is think about her - and she about me. All I want is to be with her. I still have a smaller interest in my wife and as several have said above... It wasn't as if there was some major issue with my wife apart from no real connection.
    I felt I connected with N like I have never connected with anyone previously. We had known each other for a few years before anything physical happened. And when it came to the physical - it slowly developed.

    A month ago... my wife (after a year of occationally asking what was up with N and I) found a string of texts on my phone to her that included heart emoticons and "I love you's". She stormed into the room and drew the line in the sand. I had to tell her husband what was going on. That morning we drove to their place unannounced and under pressure - I told her husband about the affair.

    I found that this was not fair. But I was a bit tired of the secrecy and the lies - so part of me was happy it came out. On the flip side, I was very unhappy now because I had grown used to being able to have my "family life" and the life with N. I didn't have to hurt my kids - grand parents - wife. And I could be with the person I really loved.
    But what happened - completely shocked me. I thought I was going to just leave the family - but I found that was extremely hard. In fact I have not left yet. My wife has been generous by being willing to talk it over and try to understand the reasons why this happened. Why I would want to switch my emotions from loving her to loving N. To wanting to have a life with her.
    I am extremely torn. Crying occasionally because I can't seem to call it off with either one. I want the connection with my wife because I know the kids need a core home to come back to... I want the exciting connection I have with N. She speaks my language and I feel she "gets" me.
    I have continued texting N off and on since... and have seen her a couple times. I find that I am extremely jealous of anyone who might want to be with N. I am not jealous of my wife... though I have not really had to be yet. I don't know what to do. I do have it good at home and know that by breaking up my marriage, I will cause my 4 kids and my wife a load of agony (and probably to myself as well). By saying good by to N, I leave a soul mate, a muse, a best friend and an amazing lover.
    There is the idea of - what is good - or what is right. and that, The right thing to do is stay with my wife for the kids sake. Some will say you only life once... do what is good for you... go with N. I now see that I have put myself in a crazy place. One that has ripped my heart. One that has brought on pain I never expected and will be there for a long time either way.

    I have been listening and reading Esther Perel videos and books... She is very good - but I still don't know what to do.
    Your comments are welcome.
    (sorry this was longer than expected)

    Thanks. - MK

    Thu 13, Jun 2013 at 9:54pm
  • Cc Morwenna Flag

    Dear mk34
    I have deleted your duplicated comments. Your situation sounds really interesting, but you might find you get much more response from other users on the site if you post it as a new post rather than a comment on this post, try that and hope you get lots of support!

    Fri 14, Jun 2013 at 9:26am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I am new to this site aswell and I have been reading through quite a lot of other people situations written above and I can understand the situation.

    I am married with children and my partner is a good person but over time our relationship has just started to fade into the background we are like passing ship on auto pilot. We say all the right things to each other but that's all there is, nothing than more just words, those same words that used to mean something once apon a time. But now they don't mean half as much as they once did. I have tried to breathe life back into our marriage but it only last a couple of days then I am totally drained from trying. so I just go back carrying on as normal, always saying to myself well I guess this is married life I just have to get on with it and try and make the most of things. But deep down inside I know I was missing something, but I made a promise, For better or worse so I was sticking to my guns so I thought.
    Anyway one day out of the blue I found what I was missing, I was not looking for it just happened. That face and those eyes I couldn't stop myself from looking then those beautiful eyes that caught mine in the first place. Turned and met mine again. Then that spark happened as we looked at each other I knew I was not the only one who felt it.
    We looked at each other only for a moment but it felt like a life time, and then work called me away dam why now I thought, and then I looked back only to see her turning away. I thought to myself I would not see her again. But most evening she came back to the shop and over time we started to look for each other we never really got to speak apart from hi in passing but we both new that something was stirring inside, but hey it was just harmless flirting, every body does it so why cant I. Anyway time went on and for some reason I didn't see her any more what happened was she Ok, has she moved. If so where has she gone I hope she is safe I found myself thinking. And
    For about 4 month I didn't see her, I never forgot her she was always in my mind and there was a hope that one day I will see her again and I promised myself when I do I will have to do something so we can at least stay in contact with each other. Time went on and I changed job. But i never forgot her.
    Then one day we nearly walked into each other as I was and my wife were coming out of the shop I used to work in and she was going in. she was with a guy and I was with my wife we both saw each other and we both looked at the other people we were both with we smiled briefly and then walked on.
    My heart was pounding not because I had my wife with me and maybe she caught the smile and the look we both exchanged or her fella might of seen it to. No none of that concerned me my heart was pounding because I saw her again after so long I looked over my shoulder to see her looking over hers, the excitement was hard to contain but I hide it. or my wife didn't notice she never really paid much attention to what I did or thought either way I was not concerned I was happy inside again,

    I went back to the shop every now and then to get the shopping and i always kept a look out to see if I could see her around but I didn't until one day I did. but not how I expected to
    I was chatting with a friend and I was about to pay for what I had bought and to my surprise the person I had to pay for the item was her she was right in front of me watching me her eyes looked me over and she smiled I was lost for words,

    I walked out of the shop with my friend i was in shock and I made my excuses then took my friend home and drove back to the shop as fast as I dare, with my heart pounding in my chest thinking quickly I said what can I do, so the first things that came to mind was to write my number down on a bit of paper and go and buy something from the shop and hopefully get served by her again the shop was not to busy so all was ok,
    I grabbed something and walked back up to the counter to pay for the item I had in my hand and she said how are you. My reply was ok thanks and you, she smiled and said I am good thanks I then paid for the item and said very nervously here is my number. please text me she looked at me then looked around and took the paper which had my number on it. I left quickly and waited and waited it felt like a year but later on that day I got a text saying well I am doing as you asked.
    I replied and we started to text each other for a day or two just general chit chat. and then I thought I would ask, I said can we meet up, she said that would be difficult I finish work late so I said ok I can wait, thinking wait for another time but she then said ok come and meet me when I finish work I said where, she answered me and said meet me down the road from the shop.
    So I made my excuse and I met her she got into my car we spoke and laughed and I looked at her she looked at me our eyes wondered to each others mouths and we kissed and wow what a kiss passionate was not the word for it.
    Sparks flew we were in each others arms first a few gentle pecks to a full on embrace,
    we both pulled away after a bit of time and she said I am married we shouldn't I said I am in the same situation but I want to kiss you again she replied I want that to,

    Three years later we still met up and spend time with each other and now we are lovers and both of us want to spend as much time with each other as we can we both understand the other person situation and neither of us wants to hurt our partners so we both lead one life of happy families etc etc. but we also live a second life where we meet when we can, we laugh talk dance have fun and yes we make love as much as we can. We take what time we have with each other like its our last time together. Knowing full well we are going to see each other again.
    We both feel for or married partners and yes there is some guilt there but we work through this together and we have even tired to stop our affair but we cant bare the pain of not seeing each other, we both know we should choose but neither of us want to inflict the pain of hurting our other partners and our children.

    So we both look forward to seeing each other as and when we can we keep things quite and live for the now neither of us have sex with our married partners. And neither of us want to have sex with the people we are married to and our partners don't seem to want it either which works out just fine for us. we talk about a lot of things and what might happen and where is this leading,
    but we both know we can not stop seeing each other, we have tried but it just doesn't work.

    The thought of us not seeing each other again is to much for either of us.
    We both feel that one day we will be together, and we are both happy to look forward to that

    if you were to ask me if having an affair is a good thing my natural response would be no don't
    but like all things not everything goes to plan and you never know what is down the road having an affair takes a lot of trust and understanding for both lovers.

    It sounds a change thing to say knowing that the trust you have from the person you are married to has been broken by yourself, to then be able to talk about trust with the person of whom you are the lover. But yes people that are in an affair need to trust each other. I guess it all depend what both lovers want from the affair. Is it just sex or companionship. Or comfort I want to feel needed by another person. And the big question is are you both in love and are you both strong enough to not having the other person around you all the time like a married partnership,

    For us we are both happy with those things and we both trust and understand that we cant always be with each other but that does not stop the want. But when we are together it make for a better time together if you can enjoy it for that moment and keep yourself from feeling a loss when you are not with your lover.

    As for both of us we inform each other of most thing and reassure any doubts we may have and we understand that talking about things stops any doubts

    Wed 25, Jun 2014 at 11:22pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I feel you just wrote my situation. I'm feeling extremely sad. I miss my affair partner so much it hurts when we are not together. He is single and has the time to see me when ever but I don't and it hurts me not being able to be with him. Like you I picture myself with him but I don't see me leaving my children or breaking up my family .... I can't do it and I won't do it for the sake of my children which I love dearly. I have no attraction to my husband at all...I feel disconnected from him and have no interest of trying to make anything work with him. I felt this way about my husband even before meeting my affair partner. So it is not like his affair partner came to my life and just changed my feelings towards my husband.

    When I'm around my affair partner is like the world stops and I can't breath...I think I'm in love with him. I want to be with him so bad but is breaking my family worth it? :(

    Fri 27, Jun 2014 at 11:44pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Thanks for taking the time to read my story. and it was the same for me i to lost most feeling for my partner before i met my lover. whom i love and she also loves me the same. she also has no real feeling for her husband but like you and me, neither of us want to hurt or rip apart either of our families but we are so much in love with each other it is very hard sometimes but we still try to live for the moments we have together and then when we are both back with our own married partners we go on to auto pilot, we often discuss how we both feel and how hard it is to be apart from each other but niether of us can hurt our married partner and children,
    if we did leave. we would have to think about the cost financally, and we have both said it would criple us both money wise. we both feel trapped in a marriage in a few ways children and money and not hurting the person we are married to, yes some people may think well you should of thought about that before, but its never that simple as i am sure you will agree when you fall for some one all you can think about and want is to be with that person they seem as importent as the air you breathe, i have often asked myself what if i had not of met her that day in the shop would i be happy now in my relationship i know the answer, and i would of just made do with things, then i ask myself would i change things if i could and the answer is no i wouldn't apart from not getting married to the person i am married to,
    but if i had two choices and one of them was not be working in the shop at that time i saw her or on the other hand to still be there and let it all happen again, then i would let it all happen again, cos i have never felt so alive as i do when we are together its like i can feel everything that is going on around me and even taste life to its fullest all my senses seem to be 10 fold and the beating of my heart is so strong that it feel like my heart is going to burst out of my chest and this is 3 years into our affair . and this feeling gets stronger as time goes on. and i guess all these feeling i have when we are together make it even harder for us to leave each other we both say that we feel totally and utterly complete when we are together.
    and when we both go home we feel numb and we both just go on to auto pilot and just look forward to our next meeting.
    my life is much happier when i am with my lover and i can extend that happiness back into my home life aswell which helps me get through each day. but at this moment in time i am in the 3rd week of 6 weeks of not being able to see my love as she is away taking care of a family situation which is driving us both nuts it is very difficult at this point in time. i have found i am getting a bit depressed and i am longing for her to get back we text and email as much as we can but its still not the same. the best way i can explain it is like its hard to breathe with out my lover being around she agrees and she cant wait to get back, but she is stuck sorting things out for relitives.

    I guess Affairs are morally wrong but love is something we all want and when you find it and i mean really find it. It is hard to be away from that person you love and in a perfect world you would be married to that person but when you are married to someone else things become a lot more difficult.
    On one hand you want to be able to spend as much time with the person you love and on the other hand you do not want to hurt and cause anybody any pain or ruin your children life and have them scared thinking that it may be there fault why mummy and daddy are not together and are spliting up and maybe getting a devoice etc and worry about how that may effect them so you think i cant be selffish, so you can't just do want you want to do. And be with the person you love because it will cause to much pain for everyone else, then you look at the house and the mortgage and the cost of thing if you get a devoice etc. so what do you do, you just carry on trying to please everyone and put yourself last and just hope that you and your lover manage to see each other as much as possible.
    and you adapt to the situation of being married to someone else you dont really want to be married to and taking care of the home or going to work providing for your children or both as well as doing the social bit playing the part of a good husband or wife. But deep down inside you are completely in love with someone else who in my situation is in the same sition but for other there lover may be in a different one. but either way its difficult denieing what you really want and being in a situation you dont really want, so i dont think being in love with someone else out side your marriage is being selfish i think it is the complete oppersite you are giving more than you want to give to someone else whom you dont or may not really love or feel the same as you once used to. To save them the pain and hurt that a break up would cause. and by putting them first you are sacrifing your own wants and desires thats not selfish.

    Mon 30, Jun 2014 at 12:49am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Hello everyone I am a Male and having an affair. After being married for 14 years and 2 children I have come to realize for so many years I have lost so much in my marriage. It is for the most part always been fulfilling in a friendly relationship way. But I have always felt something was lacking. I found other women would talk to me and conversations would turn more into sexually related and I would want that person more and more. Each time something was going on in my marriage that drew me away from my wife but I never thought of leaving my marriage. Then over the past year those feelings have gotten worse. I don’t have the attraction to my wife at all and our sex life suffered. I lost most interest in trying because it was not successful or I couldn’t get aroused long enough to finish. This made it worse because we both felt frustrated. I ended up having a surprise affair that lasted about a year with an employee that was also married. It was exciting and spontaneous but her and I knew we were not looking to leave our spouses. It was just a void that we were filling that was exciting. But for me it was finding someone that really excited me as well. It ended and we were both fine. But I have had the feelings of not really loving my wife and feeling the excited feeling when I saw her. It was more of disappointment. Then recently I fell for a girl. It started innocent as they always do and then she and I started to flirt more. It turned to passion and before we knew it we couldn’t stay away from each other. My wife was going out of town for a month and I would be alone with the kids. It was incredible even though we still had to sneak around because she is also married and has a child. But her relationship is on the last leg … she has wanted to leave for a long time and never been happy with the marriage of 5 years. She has fallen for me and I for her. We have discussed how happy we are together and even went out of town so we could have a proper date. It was incredible! I treated her like a first date and we just didn’t want it to end. This is a feeling I have not had in 10 years at least. I know there is a certain euphoria with first time relationships and have read a lot about how they run a course and that ends. So all the time my wife was gone I did not miss her at all. I mean it was just nothing. Even the nights I was alone and there was no one else. She came home a couple times and I just felt uncomfortable around her. I know many will say it was because of the other woman. But that is not the first one. The other times there was another woman physical and non physical. I have had spells away from my wife but I start to miss her. And never even imagined leaving her mostly because of the life we have made. But now I am feeling done. I was pretty miserable when she finally came home and the house felt awkward with her in it. I had grown accustom to her not being there. All I can think about is the other woman and I see our future together. I see us sharing everything and being happy in our choices. I read a lot of Emily’s story even into her fixing her marriage. And it felt so similar in the feelings. After my wife returned I finally told her I had fallen out of love with her. She lost it. As I knew she would. We talked about things but she felt blindside because she never ever saw that coming. I have tried for years to tell her in subtle ways what was lacking and how to improve us. I did it that way to keep her from getting too upset or think I was complaining about her. But she just never saw it and it was evident because she always seemed to have an excuse when we would talk. And when the few talks got deeper into my issues she would turn it into how “horrible and not caring “ she is. When that happened it closed me off and I didn’t want to discuss it anymore. I am a VERY supportive person and generally fun spirited. She has very few to no real friends. And no one she can share things with. In many ways our personalities are opposite but I have been the friendly walk around the room person. She is more the go to a back table and complain about things. Especially if its not a function for her. This makes it hard to be a husband that is proud of his wife. I just don’t know what to do. I tell her I will try but when we are around each other I just don’t see anything. Yes we built a life and have 2 wonderful kids. But I also want to be happy and with a person that makes me happy. I am always trying to cheer my wife up and make her enjoy life but it turns to her complaining about work or what ever else is going on. I am sick of being the up lifter all the time!

    Fri 11, Jul 2014 at 9:06pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    My name is Ellie. I needed to comment on this thread after reading how different everyone's personal experiences have been. I really believe in fate and true love, the Notebook kinda stuff, that happens to two people, even though rare. It could be possible that most people here truly did love their ex spouses instead of their lovers, and the affairs were lust. If an affair is only good while it's happening, it's the thrill of the affair that is making you feel in love with your partner, but this is not love. True love endures and overcomes all, therefore, if you truly left your spouse for the right reasons and truly did love your affair partner, your relationship would have overcame mountains and wild fires for one another. If there are deep seeded problems in a marriage that truly do exist and aren't just made up thoughts to justify why you love your affair partner, if these problems are not dealt with, you WILL make a huge mistake in leaving your spouse for false love. When I met my fiance (we have been together for 8 years) he was married and had been with his ex since he was 21. They got married because she got pregnant. Throughout the marriage, he lost a lot of love for her because he tried endlessly to fix the problems within the marriage, and work on it, only for her to never put forth any effort. Intimacy lacked and he could not communicate with her. He also had a previous child that she did not accept into the household, but that's another story. When our affair began, which was more of an emotional friendship, he started to see a future with me because he said I was everything opposite of her and everything he had been dreaming of his entire life. After he left his wife we became physical. After a few months, he became extremely guilt ridden over leaving his children, who were 12 and 15 at the time, so he went back to his wife. It tore me apart and I was devastated, but because I loved him, I accepted that his decision was in good intentions and continued to love him, but had no choice but to start moving on. He wanted to continue our relationship, which we did for a few months, but I could no longer accept myself as the other woman after he had gone backwards in our relationship, going back to his wife. I ended it. It was very difficult as he didn't want to lose me but I had no choice for my own sanity and health. A year past and I heard from him out of the blue one day. After he went back and tried, things were worse than they were before. He tried to focus on the pre-affair existing problems he had in the marriage, tried fixing them, communicating with her, being intimate, everything a man can do in an attempt to salvage a marriage, but she did nothing but point the finger and place the blame on him. He finally figured out he still loved me and couldn't handle his life without me, nor could he take one more day of trying to beat a dead horse fixing an already over marriage, so he left. He got an apartment and filed for divorce. His ex never did find out about the affair, but I believe his intentions for his wife and children were good in that he tried to reconcile and stand behind his vows. When he contacted me and told me he filed for divorce, I almost dropped dead. I took it very slowly though and with much work, and believe me it takes work when there are exes involved, we're happily together 8 years later.
    I don't have much to say besides, fate brings you to the one you truly love, whether it be your spouse or your affair partner. Statistics you read all over the internet are nothing but BS and you cannot base your decision to follow your heart around some silly statistic about affairs. It's nonsense. Trust your gut, follow your heart, follow your dreams and live happily, because we only have one life and that life is too short to sit in an unhappy marriage regretting not taking the chance to find happiness when you had it.

    Tue 22, Jul 2014 at 5:52pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I am in a very similar situation to a few of the people on here. Although I know that what I have been doing is wrong, it is a comfort to see I am not the only one going through this type of thing because I don't really have anyone I can talk to.

    For the past year and a half I have been having a 'thing' with a male friend. Although we haven't actually slept together (not quite sure how we have managed to stop ourselves), we have been pretty close to it.

    This guy became my boss and is in a failing marriage with 2 fairly young children. I have been with my husband for 14 years but only married for 2 and no kids.

    Like most of the people on here, I have never done anything like this before and I was totally judgmental about cheating before it happened to me. We became very close friends after he confided in me about something very personal and something he has not told anyone else besides his wife. I happened to be more understanding than she did about it and we met up on regular occasions to talk about it. Whilst we were close friends, a role came up at the guys company and he employed me to work there. At this point we were emailing and texting all the time and would go for lunch and drinks after work. There was always a really strong chemistry there and we ended up admitting that we fancied each other.

    The turning point came when we had to go on a business trip together. We ended up getting drunk and kissing in one of our hotel rooms one evening. The next day we were both really guilty but discussed how comfortable we felt with each other and surprisingly there was no embarrassment. We both said it wouldn't happen again but a few weeks later it did and this has been continuing ever since in a vicious circle of trying to stay just friends but always overstepping the mark and always going a bit further. We are both in love with each other.

    Him and his wife are close to splitting up (and were before I came along) but until now I have been fairly happy in my marriage. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I would have never imagined all of this happening in a million years. But this has made me doubt everything and I find myself comparing the two of them and getting moody and stressed with my husband.

    A week ago this guy emailed me to say that we have to stop seeing each other before it wrecks my marriage but he wishes things could be different. I feel so sad! I have lost my best friend. HE isn't my boss anymore but we will probably still bump into each other in work situations. It's killing me not being able to chat with him, even though I know it is for the best. Although a couple of my friends know bits and pieces I don't really have anyone I trust enough to tell the whole situation to.

    Mon 28, Jul 2014 at 1:38pm
  • User-anonymous Imabird Flag

    I have a few concerns:
    You said "For the past year and a half I have been having a 'thing' with a male friend."
    Then you said further along in your story "Him and his wife are close to splitting up (and were before I came along)"
    This really concerns me because if they have been close to splitting up long before you came, why have they not split up in over a year and a half? I would be concerned about men that tell you this. Don't believe it until it actually happens.

    You also said: "even though I know it is for the best."
    What do you think is the best thing for you and your current husband? Do you love your current husband or do you love this other man? Do you see a future with this other man if he were to leave his wife? Do you think your husband can go out and find happiness with someone who can give 100% to him? You aren't giving him 100% and it isn't fair to him either. Decide on your destiny, not for your husband or for the other man, but ultimately for yourself. Don't deny yourself of try happiness and fulfillment by staying with your husband just because you're married. Marriage isn't everything and you are each still individuals, but true happiness within yourself is.
    Ask yourself why you fell in love with the other man? There goes a saying “if you love two people at the same time, choose the second. Because if you really loved the first one, you wouldn't have fallen for the second.” -Johnny Depp

    Tue 29, Jul 2014 at 1:04am
  • User-anonymous confused80 Flag

    Thank you so much for your response Imabird. It's nice to get an honest and non-judgemental response.

    This guy and his wife have been pretty much living together for the sake of the kids I think. I know it sounds like an excuse and I sound really naive, but knowing him as well as I do I truely believe that. They are permanently arguing and from what I gather have a non-existant sexual relationship (he did tell me this once when drunk but doesn't talk about it much cos I think he's worried he's going to make me feel awkward). He is not the type of guy you would expect to have an affair (not that I am stereotyping!) and I think most people who know him would be quite shocked.

    I do love my husband (and I know I am being unfair) but I think I have just experienced feelings that I have never had before with the other guy. We have massive chemistry at the same time as being completely comfortable with each other. My husband and I do argue quite a bit and we don't have a lot in common hence we live separate lives most of the time. However, when we do spend quality time together we get on well which is why I am so confused. We also have a lot of financial type commitments (big mortgage), etc which would make it difficult to split up. I also wonder if it is just me craving fun and attention after a 14 year relationship?

    I can see a future with the other guy but the hurt and upset we would cause really scares me. Plus he has 2 children and I worry about how they would feel, etc.

    Thu 31, Jul 2014 at 1:28pm
  • User-anonymous Imabird Flag


    These are typical married man excuses. Although your married man may seem sincere, all of the things he has been telling you are sound like typical married man excuses.
    "This guy and his wife have been pretty much living together for the sake of the kids I think. I know it sounds like an excuse and I sound really naive, but knowing him as well as I do I truely believe that."
    The "can't leave the kids" excuse is the best one they give, because if the affair partner has any kind of heart whatsoever, she will feel empathy toward the kids situation and will never want to be the one to come between a married man and his children. But do keep in mind that, if he says he can't leave because of the kids, he had probably thought about leaving for the wrong reasons in the first place, for the affair partner and not for his own reasons, which he then came to his senses after determining he really did love his wife. Kids will always be your kids and many kids in America go through divorce, which often times, makes them come out with better relationships with both parents in the long run. Kids can sense an unhappy household and marriage, they're smarter than we think they are.

    Another famous married man lie:
    "They are permanently arguing and from what I gather have a non-existant sexual relationship (he did tell me this once when drunk but doesn't talk about it much cos I think he's worried he's going to make me feel awkward)."
    I don't care how much a man loves his affair partner, he's still having sex with his wife. Unlike most females, a man can have sex without emotions and he can also compartmentalize this in his own head. It's just how the male brain operates. He may even close his eyes and think of his affair partner while engaging in sex with his wife. If the sex is non-existent, he may even want it more if he has an affair partner! I know this sounds crazy, but it's true.

    A married man will say this, as well..
    "He is not the type of guy you would expect to have an affair (not that I am stereotyping!) and I think most people who know him would be quite shocked."
    He wants his affair partner to think he has "never done this before" and he "can't help that he has fallen in love" with his affair partner so she'll think he's sincere. A lot of times, this is a complete lie.

    I am not saying this guy is being insincere, but I am just speaking in generalization of most married men who have affairs. The bottom line is, a married man will tell you all of these things so that he can make you feel sorry for him because of all his marriage problems, that may or may not really exist.
    If these problems really did exist, why didn't they leave and file for divorce already???

    When I met my current husband (soon-to-be) he was married. He, too, had all these marriage problems. Do I believe him? I don't know, I believe some of it, but I am doubtful on the lack of sex story. A man is a man and if he has access to sex, he's not going to say No! We started seeing each other when he was separated, and as time went on, he drug his feet on filing for divorce and just didn't know what the hell he wanted. I felt as though I was an exit affair because when he first fell for me, he was still in the marital home. I got tired of it, left him, he went back to his marriage and a year later ended up divorced. Do I think he really had marital problems? Yes. But he had to file for divorce for his own reasons and not for me. He had to spend time away from me for a year to figure that out. I've been with him 8 years now.
    Sometimes things can't always happen right away, you just have to have patience and let things happen naturally. If you and this man are going to happen, you have to let things run the course and let whatever is meant to happen, happen. You both need to decide if you are truly unhappy in your current marriages, but on your own and not for each other. I think it's best you spend some time apart.

    Thu 31, Jul 2014 at 11:36pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    So many stories here... It's quite incredible to see just how many people struggle with having, or being the victim of an affair. There is an inordinate amount of advice in this forum, but i'd like to take a slightly different angle.

    Marriages take work. An awful lot of work. After a few years, the person you're with isn't simply a CHOICE. You've invited this person into your family unit when you marry them. They become a member of your family as fundamental and inseparable from you as your children or your parents. For many people struggling with the urge to have an affair, they forget this.

    Fight for your marriage before giving up on it. Tell your partner that you no longer feel close to them. That you're stressed by loneliness and lack of intimacy. Communicate. Go on dates. Suggest counselling. Lie in bed and talk to one another. Give each other a massage. Reignite your love for them with a concerted effort because the fact is - you fell in love with them. You were in love with them for a long time. Enough so to marry them. And have children with them.

    Your relationship with this 'other woman' or 'other man' may feel wonderful for the time being... but a relationship never feels euphoric forever. Just like your marriage, the passion will fade. The romance will dwindle. And you'll have to fight to keep it alive.

    Fri 1, Aug 2014 at 7:28pm
  • User-anonymous Imabird Flag

    Anonymous (above) said it well and I agree with this approach. I just believe that accept for the fact that there are many couples who marry young, marry for the wrong reasons, marry before experiencing life and gaining the knowledge on what marriage is all about. Had I know what I know now, I would have never married my first husband. I didn't love my first husband, I loved the idea of the white dress and the picket fence, and our college friends were getting married so it seemed like it was what we were supposed to be doing, but I didn't love him. At the time I thought I did, but in looking back, I definitely did not.
    So many couples are in this predicament, which is why affairs start in the first place. They hit mid-life, usually late 30's, early 40's or older, and meet someone that surfaces a whole new level of love they never knew they had. This is what my current partner went through at this stage in his life with his first wife and I can honestly tell you, our relationship is still euphoric and the passion hasn't dwindled in 10 years! He didn't love his first wife, nor did I love my first husband. We just married young and dumb before we knew what love was.

    I feel that there should be stricter guidelines on allowing people to get marriage licenses, possible mandatory classes or something to that sort. Marriage licenses are cheap, divorce is costly. It would also be nice if you had to be 30 or older to get a marriage license, just like a driver's license. Maybe then, so many young couples wouldn't get married for the wrong reasons, end up in affairs and continuously increasing the 50%+ divorce rate in this country.

    Fri 1, Aug 2014 at 8:12pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    AS much as commitment is important for the survival of a marriage relationship, there are couples who are just not compatible, whose likes and preferences are faraway from each other. For their marriage to be sustained one partner will be forced to fake it for the sake of peace, but at his/her own expense. Maybe we need to grow-up and accept it if it is not working and let it go.
    I do not believe that the children will benefit from parents who are living a lie in a relationship which is more transactional with no healthy communication, no emotional connection, no sex but tow parents living under the same roof. Let it go, it does not help anyone.

    Thu 25, Sep 2014 at 1:18pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I've read all the posts above with great interest. I am a 65 youthful guy who has been married 26 years. When we had our second and last child, we had been married only 3 years. SInce that time, our relationship has been very tumultuous, with her exhibiting explosive, nearly violent outbursts on a fairly regular basis, and me lying to her in order to carve space out to be more of myself and fee free. My wife finds compromise very difficulat and has been very negative to me. We have tried counseling three times, a, in her mind to fix me, but then when the therpaist turns to her and asks: Well what are you bringing to this relationship that you can fix?, she drops out of it.
    I know there's no good reason, but to cope, I have had a couple affairs over the years. I've come to understand that these have been 'markers' - that my relationship with my wife had soured. I fell in love with one of the women I had a 3 year affair with who was married, but just after she divorced her husband, she dropped me in a very hurtful way. I was devasted for a long time, but then finally rose up to feel better about myself. However, the issues with my wife did not go away, and finally I met another woman who is married for 22 years and very unhappy in her relationship. We started seeing each other, and I fell in love with her within 6 months. We now have been seeing each other for 2 years. I honestly think this woman is my soulmate. Even though I would be financially crushed from a divorce, I beleive I want to find a way to separate from my wife without anyone knowing that I am in love with another woman. I built up the courage to tell my wife how unhappy I was about her years of abuse, and, although she told me how hurt she was about the lies I had been caught in (none regarding seeing other women though), low and behold, she started being much nicer to me. My therapist and I don't see how this can continue, since she truly has a diagnosable personality disorder with her violent outbursts (none have actually happened recently). Meanwhile, the other woman is head over heels about me. She has helped mye feel stronger and I feel I'm cheating her by not finding a way to be with her. THere is no question that if I left my wife, she would leave her husband. It's really over between them.
    I feel totally stuck.. I feel horrible for finding myself in this situation. Even with the massive problems we've had, if my wife is willing to try to make monumental changes in how she relates to me - and I of course to do the same - I feel I am missing the chance for unrequited love - the love I never had as a child.- and be with the other one who I knows loves me very deepluy and will be devasted if I break things off.
    TIming is bad right now too since my wife's parent's are both dying. Yet, when would there ever be a good time for resolving all this. This situation is very complicaed, and there's much more to it....
    I know I've rambled on. There is much more to this story. But I was impressed by all the people on this post who have tried to help each other over the years. Feel free to comment. Thanks!

    Mon 8, Dec 2014 at 5:36pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    To the poster above, It might be worth posting this as a new post so that it is more easily seen and responded to by other readers..

    Mon 8, Dec 2014 at 9:25pm
  • User-anonymous BAnnie Flag

    I have not read most of this as so many replies, would just say three things.
    1. You are denying your husband the freedom of choice.
    You describe him as husband 'material' - he is a person who might like to have the same privileges as you in the relationship.
    2. You also write that 'It would kill him' to know the truth.
    It wouldn't actually kill him though, would it? It is an affair, not murder. It is a betrayal, but no-one will die as a result. It might actually be better for everyone involved to know the truth. At first it will get very ugly, but given time the dust will settle.
    3. Are you worried about your children or upsetting the comfortable life you have? Surely your husband will be just as concerned about the children as you, in which case he may be prepared to find a solution with you that limits damage to them. If he is not concerned about the children then maybe he is not Mr Perfect after all.

    Wed 11, Nov 2015 at 11:11pm
  • User-anonymous Could you tell us Flag

    How did it end after all this years?

    Fri 30, Dec 2016 at 1:00pm
  • User-anonymous amyjj Flag

    I am very grateful for the writers of these posts. they are very helpful to understand my love's situation because, in contrast to the people above , i am writing from the other side. i am the woman he fell in in love with in his 15 year old marriage. i am singe,e no kids ( chose for that ) they have one 13 y old..
    I met him meditating.
    Our energy with each other is so strong we instantly felt like each others best friends. peace. a very strong feeling of belonging with that person. i must say i have never experienced something like this before. closest to what i ever felt to meeting a soulmate. our connection grew effortless. at first only spiritual. he told his wife about it , and we got free way to explore. She was not happy with it but tried to accept.
    Our relationship grew within a couple of months from spiritually, emotionally and sexually. his wife was is not happy about that but has been clear in not wanting to lose him , however , she started stalking him , and me .. resulting him to choose my side in wanting to leave her permanently. at that point , things got to heavy on me so i decided to go traveling . I am not into polygamy and and that point so in live with him i thought the best way was to let them try to figure out their marriage before anything else. when i returned after three weeks he said he couldn't keep two relationships and he chose me. his financial situation however made it hard to leave their house immediately and it was too soon for me to take him and the kid in
    So he stayed living with her, in a relationship with me. That is when things got really rough ...she pulled him back and forth and he didn't get any chance to detach from the relationship. he still had sex with her behind my back She didn't want to lose him she said he could do whatever he wanted with me as long as he didn't leave her. At a certain point things got so confused they both saw me as the problem of not wanting to ;share' .I was clear in saying i didn't want a relationship with somebody who was in another relationship. It turned out he couldn't do that either, although at first , to him , this might have seemed the most convenient option. even as an intemediate to leave.
    i said multiple times i couldn't do it anymore, he said to trust him , that he wanted to leave but would at least take him six months to do so. he had to get his finances straight, take on more work , and look for a house, it seemed like an eternity to me but i decided to pull myself together and bite through it. he had to take care of the kid every other week , and the week off he spent with me. we had a great time living m eating , talking , sleeping together. we don't really argue. expet about his situation. a month ago we were both really worn out and sick of the tense situation and decide to go on holiday together. we came back last thursday, him saying he hopes his wife would be gone so he could have some more time off to get his mind straight... but something really strange happened. on sunday i popped by for a quick hug. when he opened the door a was blown way by the distance in his eyes. everything we had shared in the past six months was not there . i immediately felt he had slept with her, but tried to block it from my mind.
    We had a cold chat , and i wrote him i walked away with a stone in my stomach. because i feel him. he said it was him , being in shock the house had been put up for sale and he had so much work to do. two days later he said to me he wanted to call it quits .
    He said it is all too much for hm and feels he has nothing to give with everything that comes at him. that i deserved so much more. , he totally lost himself and does not know what he feels anymore. he said he really wants to be with me but cannot just leave 15 years marriage behind .
    he hopes that my door stays open for him but he had to go figure things out for himself first. it was liHe a bomb fell. even if i know it is the right thing to do , i coulddt keep up with it anymore either. however , he is still one of the most beautiful things that ever happened to me ( and yes , i am out of the infatuation phase)
    because this is so sudden and weird ( he is not the most decisive person) i figured he slept with her last week and that is what i saw in his eyes. he knew that i would not accept it and it would be over between us if he told me, so he took the hand and broke it off himself. in any case, his wife makes it very hard to leave her , but in the end it is him who has to grow a spine i guess. positive thing is i can see right through hiim , and we cannot lie to each other. and somewhere deep inside i understand that this can happen .
    It has been a week. i am in pain but we are not contacting each other. he is my biggun, my person ...miss him every minute. .and i lost him. but another part of me really doesn't believe this is the end, and knows that if we would ever have a chance, this is the way. no contact is the hardest thing ever , i am going through hell.

    Sun 16, Apr 2017 at 5:52pm
  • User-anonymous maria367 Flag

    Greetings to every one that is reading this testimony.I have been rejected by my husband after(6) years of marriage just because he met another lady he was acting weird and ask for divorce his attitude was totaly change towards me, he left me and the kid abd he never returns back home. one day when i was reading through the web, i saw a post on how this spell caster restore peace on people marriage,and have help a woman to get back her husband,i contacted the address i saw below and ask for help,,she told me that a woman had a spell on my husband and she also told me that she going to help me and after 3 days that i will have my husband back. i believed her and today i am glad to let you all know that this spell caster have the power to bring lovers back. because i am now happy with my husband.Thanks for restoring peace and love in my home priestess laetitia.her email:

    Thu 6, Jul 2017 at 1:09am
  • User-anonymous pamala29 Flag

    He came back to me! We’re together again. priest manuka spell did brought back my fiancee, we had quarrels some few weeks back, and we got separated and since then, he has neither called me nor even message me. When a friend took me to for help, i was first not sure because i do not believe in spirits, but now i do because he did the spell and my lover came back after 3days and he did just as priest manuka says he would do.
    I have never tried anything called spell, because i believe it doesn't work, but now am glad i found the right and perfect spell caster that healed the wounds in my heart.
    my fiancee and i are getting married 3months from now.
    priest manuka, there is something special you priest which i believe other spell caster do not have.

    Fri 28, Jul 2017 at 9:17pm