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Is sexual attraction and friendship enough?

User-anonymous
Posted by: Anonymous
Flag
Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 1:17pm
Categories:
Sex/Intimacy and romance, Making a Commitment

Hi everybody, ive been on here before in search of advice....im back again lol

So im 23 male, and have been seeing/sleeping with a girl who i have alot of history with, we go back along way lots of good memories with her but......

She says that the sexual chemistry is fantastic and when we spend time together we have laugh, and generally have an amazing very very passionate time, she says she wants to love me but doesnt dare try, i think ive fallen in love with this girl, i dont know what to do?

I saw her last night and again the sexual chemistry was very apparent and we decided to meet this morning when we both were sober..i think it was supposed to be a goodbye session.

what do i do? Go silent and hope she will come round to the idea?

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Comments

  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Ive read a few things on the net today, and the advice in general is to follow your sexual instinct, hmmmm how do i tell her such a thing...........

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 2:45pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Sounds as if she might be frightened of trusting you with her feelings - is there a reason for that?

    Sky

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 4:20pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    No not at all, we have never argued or fallen out, she knows everything there is to know about me, even stuff that only myself and the doctor knew...i deemed her worthy at the time.

    When we are together we have a great time..every time, i just dont get it

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 4:44pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    AH! actually i met this girl when i was going out with my first girlfriend and was seeing her behind my girlfriends back for a while, the girl i was going out with was also sleeping around, i refused to believe it at the time

    I wonder if thats it?

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 4:46pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    >>"I wonder if thats it?"<<

    Why don't you ask her?

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 6:04pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    I dont want to annoy her or keep bombarding her with questions, im pretty sure she doesnt know herself, maybe if i mentioned it, it would dawn on her?

    This is really hard i thought i could handle it but im in bits :(

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 6:37pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Have you told her how you feel, i.e. that you love her?

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 7:56pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    No, ive told her that im not in love with her, i didnt want completely estrange her, do you think i should tell her? she said she "wants to love me" whatever that means?

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 8:00pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    I think you need to put your cards on the table, there's always a risk involved, but then even if she doesn't feel the same you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you gave it your best shot.

    Tell her how you feel and give her time to think about it, that's my advice.

    Sky

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 8:34pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    hmm, i know she doesnt feel the same ill try and quote her, she says that she thinks its just sexual attraction and friendship between us and nothing more.....but says she really likes me? my reply is that not how a relationship starts?

    She is very blunt and to the point...just how she is, she wouldnt say something she didnt mean....probs why im confused?

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 8:39pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    You say above: "she says she wants to love me but doesnt dare".

    So what is holding her back?

    If it is 'trust', then telling her how you feel might tip the balance.

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 8:46pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    ok, i wont do it tonight because she is at a party literally 10 seconds from my front door and she is with friends....ill have to have a think of when/how i should approach it.

    She says she doesn't dare in case it doesn't work out.....

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 8:49pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    And apparently she doesn't want a relationship.....

    confused!

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 8:57pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Sounds like she's scared of getting hurt - so you need to convince her that you won't let her down.

    My guess is that she is more emotionally involved with you than she lets on - maybe she doesn't want to be because of the risks that come with such involvement, but life can easily become more complicated than we would want it to be.

    What triggered the talk of ending it?

    Sky

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 9:09pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    well......it ended around 8 weeks ago, i was only seeing her properly for around 6!! But it was that passionate and she was that passionate i thought it was the real thing. Bear in mind there has always been something between us for around 7 years ish.

    Then i said to her "should i still not fall for you", it went downhill from there, she was absolutely distraught when i took her home that day, wouldnt get out of the car etc, said that she always thought if we were to get together she wanted it to be the "real deal" as us getting together had been a long time coming.

    Anyways i didnt see her for around 6 weeks she was very distant and cold, out every night of the week, on a few holidays etc.

    Then last sat night, drunk i text her "coffee in the morn" she said yea....we had a great day, a really good time, did way more than coffe, got breakfast, dinner and tea, took the dog for a walk etc didnt talk of the past just had a laugh, took her home all was well.

    Again distant all last week, then she started texting me yesterday morning am i finishing work early we should meet up, what you doing tonight, who with etc etc

    i went out with friends and she was in the pub, she came over and sat with us, and again we had a great time, her friends went home and so did mine but we decided to stay out together.

    Walked her home.....she wanted to have sex on the way....exchanged lots of kisses, neck, ear etc then when we parted company she shouted after me and came running back, for another kiss, this was when she said i want to fall in love with you but i dont dare.

    She text this morning saying we should meet up because we need to talk, so i obliged, again had a laugh, had some food etc then she said i cant be your girlfriend etc

    And now im here, knowing that shes over the road at a 21st party!

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 9:24pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    >>"She text this morning saying we should meet up because we need to talk, so i obliged, again had a laugh, had some food etc then she said i cant be your girlfriend etc"<<

    ... and you didn't ask her why?

    What did you say?

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 9:30pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    I didnt know what to say tbh, she said she didnt want to force it or risk it just for it go sour, and that she understands that it will be difficult for me to remain friends with her. We have also both agreed that it is a damn shame that its not going to happen, because we get along and click on every level.

    She also says that she wants to carry on seeing me/kissing me/sleeping with me but thats all it would be. i declined.

    I just agreed with what she was saying, i didnt want to argue or try to fight it, i think enough of her to respect what she is saying, but i cant help thinking there is more to the story. I do have another theory.......

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 9:38pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    What's your theory?

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 9:41pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    well she broke up with her ex in feb this year and in turn nearly all of her closes friends have split up with their boyfriends....so now all her friends are single, and i bet my entire lifes work so far that they are telling her not to do it, to stay away and stay single with them

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 9:43pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Do you have a reputation that would cause them to do that?

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 9:46pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    No not at all!! ive only ever slept with a girl i went out with for 5 years my first girlfriend, a girl straight after her and then this girl, i do get a bit a female attention i must admit but im very fussy and i deffo do not sleep about....thats well known.

    One of my best friends is female and very attractive, she says this doesnt make her feel threatened but i dunno, ive swore to her that nothing is going on and that my feelings lie with you and nobody else

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 9:51pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Do you think she is over her previous bf? How long was she with him?

    Could she have some doubts as to whether you are over your ex?

    Sat 15, Sep 2012 at 9:55pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    tbh she isnt over he ex fully, he has moved on with another girl after she ended it, i know for definite she doesnt want him back though, she was with him for 3.5 years.

    I dont know whether she has doubts, but i know for sure i am over her, i split with her 14 months ago and walked away relieved and never really thought about her since, i saw her over the weekend actually with her new boyfriend and wasnt phased, was good to chat again actually.

    We have both discussed and agreed that whilst we were these other partners that we have always thought about each other, always caught each other looking, brushing past each other etc etc

    She text me late last night whilst she was at the party, saying that even though we connect in every way, we shouldnt have to force it, i said thats fine but i have realised my feelings for you but didnt go into detail....she has text me 3 times now asking what that means......i dont know how to say it lol

    Sun 16, Sep 2012 at 10:36am
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Sounds like it's just a matter of time ... might be a good idea to let her think about what you have said re your feelings for her without rushing to explain ... code name: "the real deal" ... lol ... then surprise her with a romantic gesture such as THE REAL DEAL written in flowers!

    Good luck ... would be nice to hear how it works out for you.

    Sky

    Sun 16, Sep 2012 at 11:20am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Ah ok, so dont explain my "realisation of my feelings" yet, let her ponder it?

    After shes had a while and a think, a romantic gesture might do the trick?

    I can do this.

    Thankyou ill keep you posted!

    Sun 16, Sep 2012 at 11:25am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    hmm shes text me again saying she doesnt understand my text, she is assuming i was drunk!

    Sun 16, Sep 2012 at 1:17pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    I would wait and see what happens - see if she asks you if you were drunk!

    Allow curiosity to build.

    BTW, do you often text her when you are drunk?

    Sun 16, Sep 2012 at 1:46pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    Erm not really, once or twice.

    She replied to a text i sent her earlier in the day my text just basically said this is a strange situation as we seem to click well etc her response (whilst she was with her friends at a party, im assuming our song came on or something) "i know it is weird, but we cant force it, like you say" i replied "yea, just so you know you can trust me x (name removed to protect other's anonymity), my feelings for you seem different somehow" to which she replied "i know i can trust you, theyve change? how do you mean" then "what?????!" then "?x" then "Dan?x" then this morning "dont know if you were drunk or not last night lol didnt really understand your text"

    Sun 16, Sep 2012 at 1:55pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    When are you seeing her again face to face?

    Much better for this kind of thing imo.

    Do you take her out for meals, that kind of thing?

    Sun 16, Sep 2012 at 2:06pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Yea we have been meeting up and stuff but it went from all the time to just the odd occasion, we go out for coffee and get takeaway, see each other in the pub...but not intentionally.

    I like the idea of letting curiosity build, i can sort of relate to that

    Sun 16, Sep 2012 at 2:13pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Sky, ive not heard anything from her, no doubt shell be thinking whats going on and what did that text on sat night mean.....its a bit out of character for me not to text her.

    Shes all over my brother's and sisters facebook liking and commenting on stuff no doubt knowing i will see it.

    Im feeling i should leave it until sunday night when shes not with friends and alone?

    Tue 18, Sep 2012 at 5:59pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Do you have any mutual friends who might be able to enlighten you on her inner thoughts and feelings towards you?

    Giving her some space is probably a good idea imo, whatever her feelings may be towards you.

    Turning a close friendship into a love affair can kill the relationship if becoming an item doesn't work, and maybe that's her issue with making your relationship 'official'.

    Would be interesting to know what she tells her friends about you - you seem to see her friends as more the opposition than helpful towards you and her becoming an item.

    Sky

    Wed 19, Sep 2012 at 10:13am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    TBH i wouldnt say we are close friends more of an old flame situation we havent spoke since we first had an "affair" for 3 1/2 years it was only recently as we were both single did we meet up....and it was amazing.

    I wouldnt say we are friends, more lovers? or where lovers.....

    This is just my imagination here but i reckon her friends which are all recently single are telling her not to do it "be single with us" sort of thing......she will admit to me "yea i fancy you" "i really like you" "we have amazing sexual chemistry" and "we have a great time together", but she "doesnt dare fall in love with me, or try"

    Oh i text her last night apologising for not replying and basically said i didnt know how to say what i was thinking and that i wasnt drunk, she said "oh ok, didnt really know what you meant, whether your feelings had changed or not" i sorta said ye, they have sorta changed, well talk next time we bump into each other as im dropping asleep lol" her reply was "okidoke, was nice hearing from you x"

    I bet she gets in touch at weekend to see where i am and what im up too.

    I derent speak to her friends, it will definatley get back to her within minutes!

    Wed 19, Sep 2012 at 1:00pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    How come you were close but then drifted apart?

    Wed 19, Sep 2012 at 6:29pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    She assumed at the time (8 weeks ago ish) that i wanted to go out with her, when i actually didnt, i thought we where just getting to know each other a bit better....but....erm sleeping together lol

    First time round when i met her, i had a girlfriend and she had a boyfriend, we met up every weekend for around 6 months in secret...... then got caught.....and didnt see each other for 3.5 years untill a few months ago, always thought about her and she says the same.....

    Again i reckon she is assuming that i have gone off her, im just going to give it time, in the meantime im going to carry on going out and having a good time, done enough moping round lol

    Wed 19, Sep 2012 at 6:47pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    The history of your relationship with her does explain why she could have problems trusting you, and it would come as no surprise if her friends tell her: "If he can cheat on his ex, he can cheat on you!"

    She might get a thrill out of being 'the other woman', but wouldn't want to be: 'the woman'.

    Although she says she does trust you, I doubt very much that she would trust you with her heart, i.e. I suspect she trusts you in a certain context. Which explains her comments to you about not being able to fall in love with you.

    She might come round if you stick with it. But if deep down she feels unable to trust you the relationship will a have a thin foundation and may not last.

    Going back to your original question: "Is sexual attraction and friendship enough?", I would say it's not if trust is missing.

    Sky

    Thu 20, Sep 2012 at 8:32am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Ok thanks sky, that has given me something to think about.

    Thu 20, Sep 2012 at 5:04pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hi Sky, things have developed since i last posted.

    So all last week she was texting asking to meet up, i was being distant on purpose trying to guage what she was thinking and stuff, so on friday we went out for coffee and again had a great time, she didnt want to go home, all was good.

    I said i would text her on saturday but i didnt, didnt want to come on too strong.

    On sunday morning she text me asking if i wanted to do something, so we went out for dinner, then went to the zoo and had a great time, then came back into town and had coffee, over coffee she said that she was waiting all day for my text and was a bit gutted that i didnt text also she said she wanted to come back to mine to see the family etc, i declined this as we have a family grievance at the moment. So i took her home and all was good.

    So all in all we had a great weekend, we flirted at the zoo, she wanted to kiss me, i could tell when i took her home, and her body language was just screaming she wanted me?

    The fact she kept texting me and texting me asking me to text her, and the fact that she ended things all them weeks ago and said she didnt want to see me again and then started wanting to see me, suggests that she does have feelings for me, but when asked she blanks the question.

    Throughout all this she kept asking how i felt about her and i kept swerving the question, after i took her home she text me asking me again so i told her, re-assuring her that i wouldnt hurt her.

    She said she didnt feel the same, and this wasnt about trust. She has run a mile and told me not talk to her anymore. i havent heard anything since.

    Wed 26, Sep 2012 at 6:06pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    That's a strange reaction!

    Seems as if she has an issue with commitment - otherwise why would she run away when you say you have feelings for her?

    Assuming that she's not playing games, I can only think that there is a missing piece from this puzzle?

    Not feeling the same way is one thing, but why run away? Will she explain her reaction to you? She wanted you to be open with her, and you've taken a risk by revealing your feelings, so imo, it's only fair for her to give you some explanation for her reaction. It may be awkward if she doesn't feel the same, but why run a mile?

    If she not going to be open and explain, then I guess you have to decide how to go forward - friends with benefits is likely to lead to heart-ache if you are deeply involved and she really isn't available. My guess is that you haven't seen the last of her, but then do you want to carry on with a relationship that may be emotionally one-sided?

    Sky

    Fri 28, Sep 2012 at 8:51am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Thanks for taking the time to reply, she had not physically run, just said she doesnt feel the same, and not to talk to each other......

    Yea i too and everyone else i speak to is sure there is something missing here, its not the sex i miss, it purely the good time we have, the laughing, the days out, the conversations that go on for hours etc etc

    Its just odd how she can go from the way she was on sunday to cold and heartless now......she is being exactly the same the first time she tried to end things.

    We havent spoke since, i havent deleted her off any social networking sites and ive been out and about with friends, im just carrying on as if nothing has happened, probably a good job business is good at the mo. im just going to leave her be and think about things?

    What else can i do?

    I

    Fri 28, Sep 2012 at 3:10pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Might be a good idea to just wait and see what she does next.

    Her reaction seems a bit of a paradox to me - strange.

    Sky

    Fri 28, Sep 2012 at 6:19pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Paradox?

    I cant helping thinking that i aint going to see her again, she said we cant see each other because it wouldnt be fair on me, but why start seeing me again anyway, knowing that i liked her and also she said we couldnt speak because it would be to hard, who for? me or her?

    Fri 28, Sep 2012 at 11:55pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    How old is she?

    Maybe she doesn't want to get involved with anyone because it might lead to settling down.

    There's always going to be the risk that one party will get more involved than the other with Friends With Benefits, but then is pulling the plug completely on someone a reasonable way to handle it?

    The way things come over based on your postings, it sounds as if she has made a choice that gives you no say in the matter, and with little in the way of consideration for your feelings, i.e. "no strings, or its over!" Which imo shows little in the way of maturity or caring about you. Maybe the imbalance causes her to feel guilty, and so she's cut the relationship dead.

    Maybe she's just a selfish person, or perhaps she just can't handle matters of the heart in a mature way? In the absence of any further explanation by her, it's something of a guessing game.

    What she seems to be saying is that she will go out with you and have good times, flirt with you and have sex with you, but if you become emotionally involved she's going to walk away?

    It seems rather like someone who is having an affair and wants certain things from the relationship but doesn't want any strings.

    I think you would be well advised to wait and see what happens, and if she doesn't get in touch again, just leave it at that. If she is just looking for fun between her last and next serious relationship, then I think the best thing for you is to put this relationship down to experience and move on. If she gets in touch and says she's realised that she thinks more of you than she had thought, then maybe it's worth trying again.

    Carrying on with the guessing game is just going to keep you emotionally involved with her, I think at some point you need to see her actions as an indication of her feelings for you, and accept that whatever there was between you it wasn't enough to base a serious relationship on.

    Sky

    Sat 29, Sep 2012 at 11:15am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    :( ok thankyou sky, i know theres something there, anyone can see it plain as day.

    Shes 20, im 23 but probably more akin to a 30 year old, (own businesss since 17, well known local face etc etc)

    Its just a damn shame

    Sat 29, Sep 2012 at 12:00pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    >>>>"she says she wants to love me but doesnt dare try"<<<<

    The above line from your first post seems rather strange to me, i.e. people don't 'try' to fall in love, it just happens.

    If she gets in touch again but has issue about how she feels, she could talk to a counsellor at Relate, or you could go together. However, going by what she is telling you, it seems she is clear about how she feels about you.

    Sky

    Sat 29, Sep 2012 at 12:43pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Yep, id say so, she likes me and the things we do together but not enough or not in the right way to commit.

    Thanks Sky for all your replies, ill keep you posted on any further developments.

    Sat 29, Sep 2012 at 4:30pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Feels like im looking for a way to win her round when maybe i shouldnt be, these feelings will pass right?

    Sat 29, Sep 2012 at 4:31pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    You can't make her love you - if she says she doesn't feel enough for you to get serous, I think you need to respect what she says. I know you think she's feeling more than she's prepared to let on, but maybe she likes you and enjoys your company but feels there's no x factor - only she can know what her idea of x is.

    If you are right and she's hiding her feelings, or maybe just unsure, then chances are she will start missing you big time in a week or so.

    Personally, I think you need to leave the ball in her court now, and wait and see what happens.

    Because you've been close to her and have now fallen for her, it is likely to take time to move on, but if you get your head straight on what the options are it will get easier. But then for a week or so you are going to be hoping she changes her mind, so I think you may have a difficult 10 days or so - you're going to be hoping that the missing bit of the puzzle falls in place in your favour?

    Find things to distract you from dwelling on her, is the best I can suggest.

    Sky

    Sat 29, Sep 2012 at 10:23pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hi Sky, im drunk right now, and i am trying to refrain from contacting her, like you suggest i cant see how someone can go from having a good time like we were with someone to nothing at all.

    I will do what you say, ill leave things to her now.

    I miss her my friend.

    Sun 30, Sep 2012 at 2:59am
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    A lot of us have been there - unfortunately the term 'drowning your sorrows' is a classic misnomer because they just swim harder than ever.

    Best I can suggest is to drink with a good friend, or have a friend available to chat with.

    As I'm typing this on Sunday morning I hope the hangover is passing!

    Sky

    Sun 30, Sep 2012 at 11:37am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hello, im feeling fresh Sky!

    Feel better for going out tbh (3 nights on the trott lol) hmm its obvious she has been on my social networking pages, dont know why she would be looking....also i DIDNT text her last night when i was drunk......quite an achievment for me i must say.

    See what happens, i dont feel as bad as i thought i would actually.

    Alls good.

    Thankyou Sky.

    PS, are you male, female, young, older etc?

    Sun 30, Sep 2012 at 11:59am
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    She seems to dangle temptation your way by her activity on your social networking pages. Not the fairest of ways to handle things if she is being genuine. It's very flattering when someone says they are smitten by you, and imo creates a responsibility to act with some care towards the other person, particularly if the feelings are not reciprocal.

    She is quite young, and you have said that she is often influenced by her friends, so do you think she will be sharing all the details of what has happened between you with her mates? If she is running the relationship "by committee", I think you would be well advised to take a step back and avoid being played along in any way.

    Resisting the temptation to contact her should get easier as time passes, but there probably will be some difficult moments. The person with the least commitment to a relationship often has the most power, and power can be attractive to some people, so be careful of her showing any signs of misusing the power you have given her by telling her how you feel.

    If she does contact you (and my guess is that she will) I think you need to be very circumspect about her reasons and motivation.

    Sky

    Sun 30, Sep 2012 at 12:45pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    I have no doubt that she will of told her friends!!

    The thing that gets me is why would she want to know so bad my feelings for her?

    So she ended things 8 weeks or so ago and said thats it we wont see each other again, we start seeing each other (because she wanted too) and pestered me to tell her how i felt......i cant see why she would want to know so bad? Was she worried i was going to say i didnt think the same of her anymore....it certainly seemed like she did...which just confuses me more!

    I reckon she feels something, but doesnt know what or how to handle it.

    Your advice sounds spot on, im just going to crack on with my work, im a busy guy, im sure ill be ok.

    Once again thankyou.,

    Sun 30, Sep 2012 at 1:17pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hello again, just a little update, she seems to be all over my brother and sisters social networking pages......she was like this the other week when i didnt text her back and stuff......i havent been in touch with her since last monday which will of no doubt come as a bit of a shock to her.

    Would be nice to to talk to her, at least, but unless she initiates i aint going to bother.

    Would love to know why she wanted to know my feelings for her so bad? it wouldnt matter if she didnt feel the same would it?

    Tue 2, Oct 2012 at 5:30pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    You're still trying to convince yourself that she feels as you do ... if she does feel the same way as you, then she'll tell you eventually.

    Sky

    Tue 2, Oct 2012 at 10:25pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hello again Sky,

    So i still havent heard anything apart from some social network activity on my pages from her etc, any ideas on how to win her round?

    Its obvious shes checking up on me etc

    Must be something i can do?

    Fri 5, Oct 2012 at 9:42pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    If she doesn't feel the same way as you do, I don't know of a way of changing that.

    You've had good times together, and you've slept with her, so it's not as if she doesn't know you.

    If you go back to FWB, and then one day you see her with a new partner, how will you feel?

    Seems as if her activity on social networking sites keeps giving you hope, which is unfair of her if she doesn't want a serious relationship.

    Until you can accept that what you hope for isn't going to happen, you are unlikely to begin the process of letting go.

    Her activities on the Internet work to keep you hanging on, but without the promise of anything positive.

    Sky

    Sat 6, Oct 2012 at 11:38am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    How do I accept it?

    Sat 6, Oct 2012 at 12:13pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    I would think it's going to take time - after a while your hopes of her getting in touch with a change of heart will no doubt fade, which should help with accepting that you and her are not to be.

    But if she keeps dangling hope, such as the social networking activity, it's going to drag things out.

    You could take control and make a decision to move on, but it doesn't sound as if you are ready to do that yet.

    Sky

    Sat 6, Oct 2012 at 1:07pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hmm its easy to say "right im going to move on, to bigger and better things" but actually doing it and beleiving in your own words is very difficult!!

    Ive been in lots of very difficult situations in business, family and a serial cheating ex girlfriend.....but this is the hardest thing? I have three grand parents that are dying and Mum and Dad falling out due to the stress of it all and im really struggling with "*" ( moderator removed name to preserve anonymity) wtf?

    Sat 6, Oct 2012 at 1:14pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Sounds a difficult time for you. Maybe she would provide some support as a friend? But then will that just keep you hoping for more? There's always relate if you think talking to someone might help, you don't have to be a couple to go.

    Sky

    Sat 6, Oct 2012 at 5:30pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hello Sky,

    So now i know i need to move on......i find myself looking at her facebook and twitter often, multiple times a day, would you reccomend that i delete her, delete acebook, or just her from my news feed....i dont want to give off the impression that i give a shit.....if you get me lol, but seeing her happy status's and that shes having a good time obviously isnt helping, is it?

    But then again i cant help thinking a reconciliation is on the cards.....one day...maybe

    thankyou

    Sat 6, Oct 2012 at 10:47pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Sky....im back.

    So...i havent seen her for four weeks, then out of the blue at around 4.00 am sunday monday i got a load of frantic phonecalls and texts from Clare....she wanted to see me and was pretty upset. She got a taxi from town 25 miles away to my house, she didnt want to go home.

    So she came to mine....was happy to see me and we slept together.

    Next day all way good and we just lounged around most of the day and later on we slept together again....when she was sober. Then we went to get something to eat.

    The fact that she slept with me again when sober sort of says that it wasnt just a drunken mistake, she was complimenting me most of the day, and again didnt want to go home?

    Now shes gone again, said that we might meet up later in the week for coffee.

    What do i do? And what the fcuk is happening here?

    Tue 23, Oct 2012 at 10:13pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    So has she gone back to saying no to a serious relationship?

    Wed 24, Oct 2012 at 10:40am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    No she hasnt really said anything apart from she had a nice time etc. For instance in the morning i was expecting her to say that is was a mistake and that it wont happen again, but she didnt....instead we slept together again, and went out for food. Very confusing.

    Wed 24, Oct 2012 at 4:45pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    It does sound confusing.

    What was going on for her emotionally that caused her to need urgent comfort at 4 am?

    Was it about you? Or was it about her feeling desperate for some comfort?

    I think she should be putting her cards on the table so as to be fair to you.

    Does she feel she needs you? Or is it that at the moment she needs someone to provide comfort for her?

    If it's the latter, then my guess is that the chances are you are going to end up feeling used?

    It definitely sounds as if she has something quite emotional going on, but is it about you?

    I think its time she shared some of her inner thoughts and feelings with you.

    Sky

    Wed 24, Oct 2012 at 5:30pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Well heres the thing....shed fallen out with her friend or something in town.......i said can you not just go home as youll have to pass there to get to mine, but she said no, she wanted to see me, so i obliged.

    She is quite upfront about nearly everything, so if she didnt want to see me again then she would of said, she would of said as soon as she opened her eyes in the morning if she thought it was a mistake, and she certainly wouldnt have started ripping my clothes of again lol, if she thought it was wrong.

    Just a weird situation and i dont really know what to do, plus i dont want to ask her as any deep chat and she runs off again.

    Im just thinking of playing it cool, being there for her, and not being too full on? But also not being to available

    Wed 24, Oct 2012 at 6:36pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    She was back at mine again sat night......lol......round and round in circles we go

    Tue 30, Oct 2012 at 8:35pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    She was back at mine again sat night......lol......round and round in circles we go

    Tue 30, Oct 2012 at 8:35pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    She was back at mine again sat night......lol......round and round in circles we go

    Tue 30, Oct 2012 at 8:35pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Sorry to bother you again Sky :S

    So she was back at mine over night last weekend, had a great time and we spent all day sunday together.

    Went out for coffee wednesday and Thursday...she asked to meet.

    And we met up sunday again she text me sunday morning we had a great time again.

    She is doing a few things that i am picking up on.....staring at me point blank in the eye for ages, getting jealous over other girls, initiating kissing etc and i always catch her looking at me when im driving with a cheeky little smile on her face?

    Im purposely holding back and not letting her in on to much.

    And guess what i got out of her? She feels threatened by a good friend of mine who happens to be female, i promised her that in no uncertain terms do i have any feelings for her, she said ok i believe you.

    What do you reckon? Im not texting her or initiating contact.

    Mon 5, Nov 2012 at 7:49pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Jesus, im sick of this, so last night she went to a bonfire party, she saw her ex bf from whom she split in April and shes flaked again and gone cold.

    I dont know what to do :(

    Tue 6, Nov 2012 at 12:36pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Sounds as if you've found why the connection keeps dropping?

    Next time she comes on strong to you why not tell her that this hot and cold thing is difficult for you, and that you can see that she isn't over her ex?

    Being honest with you, I think you could be a transitional relationship that is helping her to get over her ex at your expense.

    Next time she comes on to you, one option could be to suggest she goes to Relate with you so that you can find out if there is any mileage in you and her long-term.

    Sky

    Tue 6, Nov 2012 at 5:00pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Thanks Sky, i cant help thinking about her longing looks into my eyes etc.

    This is hard and i feel broken and used.

    Ive been to see hypnotherapists, behavioral therapists to try and get round this nightmare ive also seen a psychic and had a reading.....now that is a story all on its own, relates to this situation massively lol!

    I think there is mileage, shes interested in my business, my family, how im feeling etc its not just sex and laughter.

    argggh

    Tue 6, Nov 2012 at 5:19pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    When a serious intimate relationship ends I think it's useful to think of there being an outer, and an inner journey i.e. an emotional inner experience that nearly always lags behind the outer reality.

    People may decide for one reason or another that the relationship is over, but for most people there isn't a switch that gets thrown to bring the emotional side of the relationship to an end.

    Generally, this duality is thought of as a conflict between the head and the heart, but nowadays it's pretty well understood in terms of the older archaic part of the brain, and the higher brain.

    The higher brain deals in thought and reason, and is the engine of cognition, the older part of the brain works more on feeling and instinct, and somatic processes.

    In an ideal world when a serious relationship ends people would wait for the older part of the brain to work through an exit program and catch up with the more up-to-date higher brain, i.e they would go through a grieving process. But most people don't do that. Maybe life is just too short to think about hurting and grieving for what has been lost. I don't know why it is, but for some reason modern society doesn't seem to encourage people to recognise the need to make this inner journey. More likely people are told to move on, forget about him/her, go out on the town, have a drink (get drunk), etc, etc. When the emotions relating to the loss come up, they might get pushed down again, denied, or translated into a secondary emotion such as anger, resentment, or maybe even a manic form of mirth. One minute people are laughing, but the next they are breaking down in tears. The bottom line being that their emotions are in a right muddle.

    A transitional relationship can help people to sort out the muddle their emotions have got into.

    Doing what they did with the previous person can feel comfortable, if not entirely right with another. At times they might think that they are in love with the new person in their life, but then at other times they may doubt the authenticity of their feelings. In their head they might think the new person is great, and possibly a more ideal partner than their ex, but their feelings may still be tied up with the previous person.

    Quite possibly they have no intention of using the transitional person, it's probably more about being muddled, not feeling sure, and having feelings that come and go, and having a need to be with someone.

    Your lady friend obviously likes you a lot, but because she's not made that inner journey out of her previous relationship, she's still tied up emotionally to: 'what was'.

    My guess is that she feels split and divided, in that she would like to get on with her outer journey and be in love with you, but she's not available emotionally due to that unfinished inner journey.

    Dare she be honest with you?

    She knows what you want to hear, but maybe she prefers to be honest with you, and doesn't want to say anything unless she is absolutely sure her words fit with how she feels.

    She clearly likes you a lot, and maybe she needs you to be there for her, but is that the same as loving someone and wanting to be with them for keeps?

    Maybe she could feel that way about you at some point, but it doesn't sounds as if she does at the moment.

    To be honest with you, I don't think you are helping the situation by being so available to her, imo, you would do better to stand back and give her some space to sort herself out.

    It might be that you are somewhat fearful of giving her space in case she decides that you are not the one for her, but if its not to be, then delaying the time to find out is only putting off the thing that you fear.

    My advice to you is not to allow her to make you a distraction from her unfinished inner journey.

    She probably has no intention of using you, but if you do turn out to be a rebound relationship for her, then that's likely to be the feeling you will be left with.

    Let me know how things go.

    Sky

    Wed 7, Nov 2012 at 3:26am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Wow, thanks sky, I have been too available, if and when she does get in touch again I will politely decline.

    Like you say she is in a muddle that is obvious she is out on the town and with friends most nights if the week, she needs to sort her stuff out before I get involved again.

    A lot of history with this girl which I am going to have to let slide for now, however hard that may be.

    Thank you for all your help over the past few months.

    Regards Daniel

    Wed 7, Nov 2012 at 7:38am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Bit of an update, she text me the last wednesday saying shes thinking of me as it was my grandads funeral the day after. She also tried to initiate contact i didnt really talk much with her.

    I left it then untill this thursday night as i knew she was going to a party where her ex bf and his gf would be, i thought id leave her to it around this time.

    I text her on thursday saying, "your getting good at this dissapearing act arent you?" her reply was "haha not really, i think youve dissapeared"

    Im just getting mixed signals, i want to ask her what the situation is but i am frightened to death of her response, we were supposed to meet today, and plan was to talk it out but she hasnt replied to my text......

    Thing is if she does say "thats it, i cant see you anymore".....ive heard it all before so part of me will know/think/assume that she we will be back.

    I hate feeling like this, its gone on now since june, i just want it to be over.

    I have tried every which way i can think of, ive tried being nice, ive tried being distant, ive told her my feelings and ive hidden my feelings and everything inbetween.

    Ive seen psychiatric therapists, hypnotherapists, psychics and doctors for medication and help to try and forget or accept that its over, but the connection seems deep, we both say so, this is really difficult.

    Why is it i have walked away from past relationships of 5 years plus and other girls ive had feelings for easily but i cannot get away from this?

    Sun 18, Nov 2012 at 11:37am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    sorry that reads awful, i meant to say she was at a party last weekend where her ex would be so i thought i would stay away and leave her to it. i then text her this thursday just gone.

    Sun 18, Nov 2012 at 11:38am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    bigger update.

    Been on the phone to her all afternoon. Said she wants the companionship and the sex and the laughter, and the she really likes me and cares about me but she doesnt think she wants a relationship.

    So thats it then.

    Soulmate gone.

    :(

    Sun 18, Nov 2012 at 5:04pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    I guess that feels like a kick in the guts?

    My impression has been that you felt sure that deep down she has some of the feelings you have for her?

    What will you do now - live in hope of her changing her mind, or work at moving on?

    To be honest, I'm not really surprised that the people you have turn to for help so far haven't been much use to you, a better bet would be to talk with a Relate counsellor.

    I'm sorry that it's not better news.

    Sky

    Mon 19, Nov 2012 at 12:32am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    I dont know what to do.

    Ive never wanted something so bad in my life.

    ahhh whats the point.

    over and out.

    Mon 19, Nov 2012 at 5:40pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Sky, I know why i have been feeling so rotten, its not her, well not completely ive had an emotional/psychological "epihianny" so to speak in the last hour or so.

    Ive read a book "the road less travelled" and i have realised that i have never felt like a fit in, like i am accepted.

    This whole world i have built around myself, my own business, craving the respect of the architects, financiers, engineers, business peers. My materialistic tendencies, designer clothes, cars, wallet full of cash, the power and control over employees. And finally the last piece of the puzzle, the gorgeous girlfriend.

    the past 23 years i have lived like this from childhood birthday parties feeling like i was not supposed to be there, to my grandads funeral last week, to recent social occasions, something doesn't fit.

    Tue 20, Nov 2012 at 2:47pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Were you close to your grandfather?

    Is your father OK now?

    Tue 20, Nov 2012 at 4:29pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    I wasnt really, but my dad was and im close to my dad, sad thing is my other grandfather is in hospital now with the same complaint and my nan has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer.

    Grim.

    I can now see other problem areas in my life, of course im hurting over the failed relationship but i think i need to work on all areas,

    Im booked to see a psychotherapist tommorow.

    Tue 20, Nov 2012 at 6:15pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    That sounds a good move - you have a lot of loss issues around one way and another. It's a stressful time for you, and maybe it has bought some issues of identity to a head. Although it's not unusual for people who experience success to feel it's kind of unreal, and not really them - although maybe that's not quite what you're saying.

    Grief doesn't just follow on from loss, it can also precede loss. Grief can also make people question things about their life and general direction.

    This thread documents your hopes re Clare (if I remember rightly that is her name) and it sounds as if that's a tower of cards that has now collapsed. You're not the first, and you won't be the last, to fall in love with a 'friends with benefits' partner, personally I think it's a really bad idea to ever start such a relationship.

    Having something you want dangled in front of you but always just out of reach can be a powerful stimulus, and I would question that she is your soul mate that has: 'passed you in the night'. Better to have someone who loves you for who you are, rather than someone who just wants to satisfy their needs while having a good time.

    You sound a bit of a 'go getter', so maybe it's hard for you to accept that the relationship as you want it is not to be.

    Good luck with the therapy - I hope it helps.

    Sky

    Tue 20, Nov 2012 at 7:03pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Thats just it Sky, i do not give up until i am absolutely defeated.

    The thing i am struggling with is she said that if i chase i will probably get her back again, but she has said not to chase her even though she cant resist me.

    just a confusing thing for her to say.

    Tue 20, Nov 2012 at 7:13pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Get her back again as ????

    A friend with benefits who enjoys having a good time with you?

    Sounds to me as if she's messing with your head and your heart!

    If she really cared about you she wouldn't be playing 'cat and mouse' like this!

    Sky

    Tue 20, Nov 2012 at 7:33pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    i dont know.

    I cant accept it!

    Shes made a mess of me and i dont know how to get out of this sky?

    Shes out there having a great time and im sat here near suicidal? wtf? Ive done everything i can think of to win her over.

    What do i do if she comes back? What if next time she comes back the possibility of a relationship is on the cards? How will i know?

    Tue 20, Nov 2012 at 8:13pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    From what you've said earlier in the thread, it seems that although she is single and free outwardly, she's not free emotionally to get involved with anyone because she's hasn't detached from her ex. So she is using you to meet her needs, but isn't available to get emotionally involved with you as you would like her to.

    To be honest with you, she sounds pretty immature and rather selfish - you've told her how you feel about her, and yet she's playing emotional hide and seek with you. Which is not the way a true friend treats someone they care about.

    If you take some control and stand off, then she pops up again to dangle a carrot in front of you to keep you hanging on.

    I think the best thing for you to do is to take control and stick with keeping her at a distance - it's going to hurt at first, but will get easier as time passes. Having said that, you probably will need a good 12 months to get her into perspective.

    I suspect you find her butterfly tactics rather addictive, which on top of liking her a lot makes the prospect of taking and keeping control difficult for you.

    But I think that is the answer to your predicament.

    It's a bit of game, and I doubt that she will give up her hand easily, so every time you stand back she will entice you back to where you were, which is basically no-where, in terms of what you really want.

    Such games can be dangerous, and I think you should be very careful - getting some support locally and another perspective is a good thing to do.

    Sky

    Tue 20, Nov 2012 at 8:46pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Thanks sky.

    I cant believe the guy she has binned me off for, she says there is nothing happening that there just friends and got mad when i suggested otherwise, but the guy is a local loser, massively overweight, deals drugs, no job, no driving licence......i cant believe it!

    Wed 21, Nov 2012 at 7:13am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hi Sky,

    Im back lol.

    Due to see my psychotherapist again on wednesday, i think it helps seeing her, she has given me some homework to do which is basically cbt work.

    Also Bill my business partner helps put things into perspective.

    Still difficult though.

    Not heard a word from Clare since the telephone convo the other weekend, ive asked her to block me from the social networking sites, basically to make my life easier, she didnt want to but she has obliged.

    Mon 3, Dec 2012 at 9:06pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Hi

    Good to hear that you have some support, and that you are feeling the benefit of it.

    Romantic love often has an obsessive element to it, and whether she means to or not, my impression is that Clare has been feeding that aspect of your relationship by popping up every now and then only to disappear again - more in an emotional way, than a physical way.

    Just talking about these things usually helps to get them into perspective.

    Clare will pop up again in your life - she isn't going to go away any time soon, and I think you need to prepare yourself for dealing with that.

    I think we all have an ideal image buried deep in our psyche of what our soul-mate looks like. It's not something we can describe because we are not consciously aware of it. But if we meet someone who seems to fit the template, then it triggers that x-factor feeling and we are hooked. If it's a viable match and the other person feels the same way, then it can make for a happy relationship, but if not, it can bring much pain and misery, i.e. that: 'so close, but so far away feeling,' all wrapped up in an attachment to the same person.

    If you work at it, I think you can learn about yourself from this experience, i.e. about your own personal soul-mate 'template' that exists within you. It's not just about a physical image of your ideal partner, it involves emotional needs, and issues around personality, personal values, and other deep seated needs.

    In time, you may find that you come to see Clare differently, in that she has some of the qualities you would like in an ideal partner, but that there are gaps. However, because of your need and the power of romantic attachment, you have filled in any gaps with some unrealistic beliefs about her, i.e. the gaps were filled up with elements of fantasy. None of this is done consciously, it just happens.

    Getting Clare the person you know into perspective, and your 'Clare', i.e. the Clare that resides in your mind and in your heart, may be a tricky business, and it may take some time, but it can be done.

    It may not seem like it right now, but Clare has helped you to see what you are looking for, even if she is not the right person for you. Painful though it may be, it can be a valuable experience that helps you to find what you are looking for in the future.

    Sky

    Tue 4, Dec 2012 at 10:31am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Thanks Sky,

    One comment you made there that a few other people have said, is that she will pop up again......why is that and why would that be? (from her point of view, why would she want to pop up again?)

    I agree and i am working on what you have said in your last two paragraphs.

    Also the "mental image" you mention struck a chord within me......every girl i get involved with looks like they could be a twin of the last....ive never noticed but people have started pointing it out!

    By the way she has no idea how upset ive been or how its messed me up.

    Tue 4, Dec 2012 at 11:22am
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    I think Clare will pop up again because there is a well established pattern to her behaviour, and also yours in the way you respond to her.

    What motivates her I can only guess at, but part of it is no doubt that she enjoys your company.

    If you were just friends, then the experience would be mutually enjoyable, but then you want more - which is totally understandable, but doesn't fit with her.

    From what you've said in the past, she seems to be able to do the FWB thing without becoming too emotionally attached. Which is not to say that she remains emotionally uninvolved when with you. 'Involvement' and 'attachment' being two different things.

    As mentioned earlier, getting emotionally involved with someone can be a way of avoiding past emotional attachments that carry on even when the relationship has ended. The 'rebound' relationship being a classic example. FWB being another.

    Being intimate usually meets physical and emotional needs. If someone is still emotionally tied into a previous relationship (i.e. with an ex) that doesn't mean they can't lose themselves in an emotional relationship with someone new - in fact doing so may be a welcome distraction. But it can mean that they are in effect doing the right thing with the wrong person, and that they will not be available to become attached to the new partner, who is likely to be a temporary phase in their life.

    Little wonder that people often find that FWB relationships screw up what was a good friendship.

    I don't have any moral problem with FWB, but from a social-emotional point of view, I think it's playing Russian Roulette with the emotions.

    Clare is young, and attractive (going by what you say), and she sounds to be emotionally 'up in the air'.

    No doubt she is a nice person, and doesn't mean to caused you any grief, but the fact is, she is doing just that because she's not in love with you - which puts you in different places.

    If I'm right, then there may be times when her emotional issues cause her to become confused - if you are being sexually intimate with someone, and they're a close friend meeting many needs, it's not always going to be easy to keep track of what's going on for you - particularly when alcohol is involved. So it would be no surprise if she seems to promise more in the heat of the moment than she is able to deliver in the long-term, i.e. in the sober reality of the following morning.

    Because of the way you feel about her you are likely to amplify any sign of hope, which is why you have locked on to the fact that I said earlier that she will pop up in your life again - "could that mean that she really does care?" you think ... am I right?

    I feel sure Clare does care about you, the problem is she doesn't seem to be in love with you.

    She likes you a lot as a friend, she enjoys your company - which lets face it meets many of her intimate needs - and no doubt she is very flattered by the fact that an eligible young guy who is doing well for himself is head over heels for her.

    My guess is that there are times when she is very tempted to say what you want to hear, and to see where the relationship leads.

    To be honest with you, if that happens, my guess is that the relationship will end up in a right mess, and you could end up hating her for not loving you in the way you love her.

    Clare is a special person to you, and you will have memories of her for the rest of your life, but rather as when someone close dies, it's more about coming to terms with the feelings involved rather than trying to forget them.

    Sky

    Tue 4, Dec 2012 at 12:43pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Yep you are right sky, i locked on to that like you say.

    We werent always drunk, we often met and where intimate whilst sober, its the whole dissapearing act when things where going good that bothers me, absolute complete silence.

    Its just a shame, as ive know her for years and as it is now, we are never going to speak again, and thats sad :(

    I miss her.

    Tue 4, Dec 2012 at 2:03pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    TBH sky i think as do a few of my friends think that she believes that i am going to run off with my friend kim, Clare and i talked about this at length and i promised her that this would not happen. ever.

    She said she beleived me, but who knows.

    She made me promise the last time we met, i havent seen her since.

    But i still think that it bothers her.

    Tue 4, Dec 2012 at 2:06pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    I didn't mean to imply that the relationship was fueled by alcohol.

    Rather, the pattern seems to be that she is very involved during your meetings, but remains unattached emotionally, and then opts out of the relationship again.

    It might be that she has a problem with commitment, but from what you've said in the past, it doesn't sound as if she wants to make a commitment to you. But then she leaves lots of lose ends, which keeps you hanging on in a mix of despair, frustration, and hope.

    Your posts on this thread show that you are constantly searching for hope - which is taking you around in circles.

    In terms of a journey, it's like driving around a roundabout because you don't know which road to take.

    The options are:-

    1/ Do you wait for her to pop up again, and give things another try?

    2/ Do you carry on going round the roundabout?

    3/ Or do you make a decision to take a new turning and work at moving on to the acceptance that you and Clare are not to be? Not as an item that is.

    Option 3 is likely to be the most difficult emotionally, but until you give up hope the grieving process isn't going to start.

    Options 1 & 2 leave Clare in control; number three means you have to start taking a new direction to get back in control.

    I'm a great believer in the saying that: "actions speak louder than words".

    The longer you spend trying to think yourself into her head, the longer you will spend going around in circles.

    Stop and think for a moment how you feel about Clare - does it feel as if you have a choice, i.e. a switch to control your emotions with?

    Well Clare doesn't have a switch either, and if she was in love with you, then she wouldn't have the control she is currently exercising.

    The best way to make a start on getting your emotions sorted out is to start with your thinking - being a central principle of CBT. It's not the whole story, but to get on the right road you do need to start thinking about which direction you want to aim for.

    Otherwise you will just keep driving around that metaphorical roundabout.

    I don't have any doubt that you will see Clare again, and that you will talk to Clare again, the issue is whether you want to carry on going around in circles hoping that she's going to feel as you do.

    Sky

    Tue 4, Dec 2012 at 3:27pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Thats just it. How on earth do i make a decision like that.

    Tue 4, Dec 2012 at 3:41pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    That's where the counselling comes in to play.

    Sky

    Tue 4, Dec 2012 at 3:51pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hello Sky,

    Update for you, was up town the other week with a few mates and her cousin a business associate of mine and her brother who came along with his cousin.

    Anyhow the subject turned to Clare, they where asking what had gone etc.

    In the morning i had a few voicemails off Clare, it turns out her brother had text her talking about me and how we should be together (i think) he never told me he was going to text her and i dont really know what was said.

    I just text her the following day saying i got your voicemails and i havent a clue what you are talking about. And left it at that.

    Apart from that alls good (ish)

    Wed 19, Dec 2012 at 6:11pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    The well established pattern is that Clare will disappear only to pop up again, which works to keep you hanging on, i.e in an emotional limbo.

    Sky

    Wed 19, Dec 2012 at 8:55pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Well i aint having it anymore, unless she comes back wanting a relationship (which she wont) then im done, no more sex, no drunken phonecalls, no texts, no facebook and twitter rubbish.

    I dont want to talk about her, talk to her, see her or anyone to tell me what she is doing, since i asked her to block me on the social networking sites my life has been better.

    The minute someone mentions that they have seen her or that she was talking to them about me it sets my mind thinking again, i have told everyone i dont want to hear a thing.

    I dont think im bitter?!, i cant dislike her for the way she is being, not her fault she feels the way she does.

    Alls good.

    Wed 19, Dec 2012 at 9:10pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    You don't come over as bitter.

    And as Germaine Greer once pointed out rather bluntly: "It's not fair to blame someone because they don't love you!" - which seems to be the way you are seeing things.

    However, I do think Clare could act a little more responsibly, knowing how you feel about her, she must realise that by popping back into your life every now and then, and doing all the things couples do together, she is going to make it hard for you to let go and move on.

    Whether she is doing it intentionally, or just putting her need for comfort first, is neither here nor there imo, she needs to stop doing things that will prolong your sense of grief over letting go of your hopes for the relationship.

    Unfortunately, lovers don't necessarily make good friends, which has led to the destruction of many a friendship.

    Sky

    Fri 21, Dec 2012 at 1:12pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    You where right sky, she did pop up again.

    I was out last night (christmas eve) and she was out, i tried to avoid her like the plague but eventually we ended up talking, one thing led to another and we ended up sleeping together.

    This time she told me she loves me and that she is going to end things with this new fella for me, and she did it right there and then over the phone.

    ??

    Tue 25, Dec 2012 at 8:03pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    I'll watch this space - as the saying goes!

    Sky

    Tue 25, Dec 2012 at 10:29pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Sky i cant take this anymore, im going to go away for a while, i dont know what else to do.

    Wed 26, Dec 2012 at 10:28am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Jesus, she turned into a nasty bitch now Sky, went back to her new obese drug dealing fella on christmas day the same day she told me she loved me and she wanted to be together.

    Her family and friends are not happy one bit and all this is causing lots of trouble.

    If i should of stayed away before then i must do now.

    I wish she had of stayed away from me on xmas eve like we both agreed we would, she looked absolutely infactuated and in love tbh, i didnt want to sleep with her, i tried to push her away and suggested we just talk, but she got upset, apologising for the way she has been and promising to never leave me etc etc

    I just cant believe it, i thought i had her.

    I cant believe this has taken over my life!

    Thu 27, Dec 2012 at 8:51pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    She's young, and she doesn't know what she wants - not for long anyway.

    If you want stability, then I think you will need to stop giving her the power to turn your emotions upside down whenever the mood takes her.

    Whatever the reasons, she has shown a number of times that she can't be trusted with your emotions.

    This relationship can only take over your life if you allow it to.

    Sky

    Fri 28, Dec 2012 at 1:28am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hello Sky,

    Its been a while!

    So not seen or spoke to Clare since xmas eve, i hear every now and then shes asking about me to friends etc and one thing she asks that makes me laugh is "does he still talk about me"

    Anyway i still think about her everyday, but i think im getting over her?

    I say this because im massively attracted to one of her work friends........ why oh why do i go for completely the wrong girl.....i take it this girl is completely out of the question?

    I cant see why it should be though, afterall shes obviously not bothered about me?

    Thu 14, Mar 2013 at 8:05pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    I was just wondering the other day how you were getting on.

    Perhaps some light dating might help you move on - providing you're not doing it in an attempt to see how Clare reacts ?

    I wouldn't be surprised to hear that she has shown a reaction if you date this other girl, but my guess is that taking notice will put you back three months. Going by what you've said about her, she will probably think you're doing it to prompt a reaction from her!

    Could be like snakes and ladders - hard work climbing up, but sooo easy to slip back.

    Nice to hear from you - let me know how things go for you.

    ATB

    Sky

    Thu 14, Mar 2013 at 8:49pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    i dont think it would be in an attempt to prompt a reaction?

    Its just im fussy as hell with women and it just so happens that a girl that is gorgeous, classy, older and sophisticated works with Clare....which is annoying.

    I suppose though i have nothing to loose by trying, whats the worse that could happen?

    Thu 14, Mar 2013 at 9:01pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    The worst could be that you click with this new woman, and then Clare make s a big play for you and wrecks the new relationship, and then after a few dates says she's not sure what she wants AGAIN!

    Of all the women in all the world, how come you've taken a fancy to one who just happens to work with Clare?

    This has red flashing lights all over it!

    Sky

    Thu 14, Mar 2013 at 9:48pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Haha i dont know, i think i must like a challenge!, i dont know if you are male or female but this girl is gorgeous, speaks 3 languages, is older than me, sophisticated, classy and wants to settle down which suits me fine...everything that i am looking for.

    I meet different women every weekend but none really seems to flick my switch if you get me.

    TBH it wouldn't surprise me if clare tried to sabotage my efforts with her before i even get a good chance to charm her, and they would both be sat back laughing whilst i look a fool.........but am i bothered about looking a fool?

    Id certainly like to try?

    haha

    Thu 14, Mar 2013 at 10:07pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hello Sky, thought id drop back in.

    Im doing good, but im still thinking about her everyday which is annoying. We have not spoke since xmas nor seen each other apart from a mutual friends party where i kept well away, her eyes like lasers in my back lol.

    Anyway ive made the decision to cut loose from my current business partner who happens to be her cousin who also employs her younger brother, this i think will help.

    I think back in January when i decided to start working with this guy it was an attempt to get closer to clare somehow.

    Ive also been seeing a few a different girls, whether this has helped or not i dont know.

    I still miss her, i probably always will, but im ok. Just thought id let you know.

    Thu 6, Jun 2013 at 11:09pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Hi - nice to hear from you.

    Trying to forget someone is difficult, i.e. the more effort you make, the more they stay in your thoughts.

    It's a bit like going on a diet: the effort increases the tendency to think about food!

    My theory is that such powerful connections happen when the person fits a template that is buried deep in our sub-conscious. People often say that they feel they've known the person long before they met, which can create the idea that the person is their "soul mate". The template theory explains that process.

    The girls you've dated since are probably not fitting with the template, so they may be very nice, and possibley even more compatible than Clare, but the connection lacks that x-factor. It's not actually my theory, just one I heard along the way, but I think it explains why we can become so enchanted with someone so instantly and in such depth.

    Maybe one day when you are least expecting it another girl will come along who fits closely with your template, and suddenly Clare will become displaced! If it should happen like that, hopefully the person involved will feel the same and be compatible. A problem with the template theory is that although it explains a strong feeling of connection, it doesn't necessarily mean that the person is compatible, or even available; or possibly they may be unsuited in some other way.

    Such is life. Even when relationships don't work, or are painful, I believe we can learn a lot about ourselves from the contact. We construct what we see, and never more so than with relationships.

    You can never know what, or WHO, is around the next corner!

    Good to hear from you - let me know if the template theory strikes again! Probably when you are least expecting it, and possibly when you are not even looking.

    Sky

    Fri 7, Jun 2013 at 1:07am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hello Sky,

    Guess who i saw last night?!

    Dont worry it was hard work but i managed to dodge her for most of the evening.

    She kept trying to make her way over to me all night i kept having to go to the toilet or pretend to answer my phone, or bluntly turn my back on her, anyhow i was stood at the front door of the pub smoking a cigarette and she came through the door, grabbing my arm/hand as she went?

    What is she playing at?

    Also her new fella came over and sort of ambushed me into a conversation with him, just basically shaking hands as if i was a losing participant in a competition, i just said i was over clare months ago and havent thought much about it since, and i hope your both happy etc.

    TBH i think he is going to come out of his situation with Clare alot worse off than me, as he said "we are not a couple or anything, we are just friends" FWB i assume. But it has been that way with the two of them since October last year and id be amazed if he hasnt fallen for her somewhat. Shes obviously not ready for anything serious yet. time will tell i suppose.

    It was an odd night really because Clares ex that i mentioned earlier in this thread, myself and her current "partner" were all in the same building, which i found amusing :)

    Regards Daniel

    Sun 16, Jun 2013 at 8:41pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Sounds as if she was determined to bump into you for old times sake - and eventually you stood still long enough! ;-)

    A bit attention seeking, don't you think?

    Sky

    Sun 16, Jun 2013 at 9:02pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    100% correct there i think! It was quite laughable really.

    Another weird thing is when i bumped into her in the corridor we were face to face for a split second and she looked really scared of me?

    Strange lol

    Sun 16, Jun 2013 at 9:12pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hello Sky, its been a while?!

    I had an email from this webiste so i thought id come on here and have a read through the posts above....jeez i was a mess weren't i?!

    Anyhow, a strange twist of fate has occurred recently, since * and i went our separate ways i have been pushing my business really aggressively....and guess where my latest contract works is at? Yea...you guessed it *s house! Someone recommended me to her parents and here i am face to face with the girl ive made every effort to avoid since that dreadful christmas eve almost 2 years ago.

    I must say i was very very apprehensive on the morning we were due to start, but i am so glad ive done it, face your fears and all that.

    She doesnt seem as pretty as i used to think, plus she has put on weight....she is also still seeing that idiot.

    Now whether there is still something there or not, i am unsure, i feel something i think, probably always will?, i can feel here eyes burning into me all day.

    Just to add, im glad everything happened exactly the way it did, if it hadnt been for the demise of our relationship then my business would have failed, it is now very healthy as am i, i have quit smoking since and have a killer physique, none of which would of happened hadnt my world been rocked by a broken heart.

    Just thought id pop by.

    Daniel

    ( a moderator has removed a name to preserve anonymity )

    Sun 15, Jun 2014 at 7:08pm
  • Sun Skywalker Flag

    Hi daniel

    Good to hear from you - thanks for the update.

    Funny how small the world we live in can be at times.

    Glad to hear that things have gone well for you.

    Love should make your life, not wreck it, so its good that you followed the pathway that you did.

    Maybe Clare didn't know what she wanted back then, but it seemed very unfair on you to keep giving you mixed messages. Perhaps she found the attention too much to turn down? If so, I'm wondering whether she might be tempted to start playing at the old game again?

    You don't mention any new flames, so presumably you haven't met anyone serious yet?

    My guess is that when you do, it will put Clare into an even clearer perspective.

    Take care - always good to hear how you are doing.

    Sky

    Sun 15, Jun 2014 at 9:42pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    No no-one serious, i did meet a girl but she turned out a very troubled individual indeed, so i had to end things with her.

    I dont know what it is with Clare, i still think about her most days, and even though my thoughts about her have changed quite alot as time has gone on, im not sure how i would react if she tried it on again, would i turn her away? I dont know!!

    Mon 16, Jun 2014 at 8:56pm
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I think sexual attraction means some kind of relationships if there is no any barriers. If girl like boy they feel closer and have fun together it's quiet odd she don't want to start relationship. I've never had such kind of friendsip but I met a girl that I really like but there was a huge geographical distance between us - she was from other country nad for the first time I so her in some videochat on okcupid or originclub.com but she was really hot. I felt strong eagerness to met her IRL and she told me she wants the same... but it was too difficult. Anyway she said that she would like to be my GF

    Tue 29, Jul 2014 at 11:00am
  • User-anonymous Anonymous Flag

    I think sexual attraction means some kind of relationships if there is no any barriers. If girl like boy they feel closer and have fun together it's quiet odd she don't want to start relationship. I've never had such kind of friendsip but I met a girl that I really like but there was a huge geographical distance between us - she was from other country nad for the first time I so her in some videochat on okcupid or originclub.com but she was really hot. I felt strong eagerness to met her IRL and she told me she wants the same... but it was too difficult. Anyway she said that she would like to be my GF

    Tue 29, Jul 2014 at 11:00am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Hi Sky!!

    Guess who ive been seeing this past few weeks?!!

    Dont worry i ended it last night, shes exactly the bloody same, which is rather dissapointing.

    Daniel

    Fri 31, Jul 2015 at 12:39pm
  • User-anonymous Poppy Flag

    Oh no. But at least you spotted it this time before you got drawn in.

    How're things with you at the moment. Long time since we heard from you.

    Mon 3, Aug 2015 at 8:57am
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    im ok, well i was untill i saw her again....i wish i hadnt. Had a great time....but i still cant work her out.

    Havent spoke since we parted the other night, and to be honest i have no intentions of seeing her again....even though shes asking to meet as she owes me a little money. (lost her purse)

    It has certainly brought them old feelings back.

    Is your name poppy now not skye?

    Thu 6, Aug 2015 at 8:30pm
  • User-anonymous Poppy Flag

    Sounds like you're taking your own advice and trying to stay away.

    I'm not Skye, but I used to follow what you guys were saying to each other - picked up a lot of good things to remember for my next relationship.

    Glad all's well with you and that (most of the time) you're gatting on with life.

    Thu 6, Aug 2015 at 9:45pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Yes it was the single most painful/profound thing I have ever encountered.

    Many lessons learned, I'm sure this will bring about more!

    Thu 6, Aug 2015 at 10:05pm
  • User-anonymous daniel1989 Flag

    Well would you believe it, its happened again. Jesus christ.

    I hope people read this thread and learn from it.

    I still haven't.

    Tue 27, Dec 2016 at 1:12am

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