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Her obsession with a man who doesn't love her is keeping US from loving each other
This is a bit long (sorry!). But believe me, I've left a LOT out to keep it shorter!
I met a lovely lady last summer. We got on very well... you can probably guess the rest!
We were “going steady” for about 2.5 months, and were very much in love. Everything was wonderful. Except one thing – she wouldn’t "give herself to me" entirely – sex, whilst we were very well matched in that I knew *just* what to do to her, was a very one-way thing. Making love was right out.
In February this year she finally told me why – she had been seeing another bloke for 2.5 years! She couldn’t bring herself to make love with me because of her guilt for this bloke. Being polyamorous, I didn’t immediately blow up – I understand the need of many people to love and be loved by more than one person. But I asked her right then (this was in online chat) if she loved him – "yes".. and if he loved her – "I think so..."
And she said that whilst she felt romantic Love for him, she really wasn’t so sure about him. And no, he didn’t know about me – "If S ever finds out about us, he’ll be terribly hurt and will rightly dump me, and that would destroy me!"
Knowing that his guy – whose love for her was in question – was not only receiving what she termed "the ultimate gift of a woman" AND was the reason I wasn’t, was very, very frustrating.
Nevertheless, we Loved each other very much. Indeed, in my 28 years of dating women (about a dozen in all), I have never known a woman who loved me as much as I have loved her – and I am a very affectionate, romantic fella! There was no way I was leaving her!
I managed to grit my teeth and bear it for a further 7 months, but then the last piece of armour around my heart fell and I ended up sobbing on her shoulder, pleading with her to "please stop hurting me"
I could no longer bear the thought of them together, and pleaded with her to only do with him what she could do with me.
After that, she seemed to withdraw a little. And then in late August announced that we should only be "best friends". Except that didn’t really work, as we were both very much in love and couldn’t resist each other ;)
She STILL said, many times, that I loved her far more than he did. And yet she was choosing him - a man who NEVER demonstrated his affection and that she ADMITTED didn’t Love her as much as I did – over me. WHY?!?!?!?!?
Soon after this, an opportunity arose for me to talk to S. I asked him about the nature of their relationship: "star-crossed lovers?" To which he said "oh, no, nothing like that!" I told him how much she adored him, and he spoke these VERY important words: "Yes, I know. I’ve been wanting to cool things down actually."
!!!!!
The following day, not quite believing what I'd heard, I asked him by text for clarification, by asking 1) if he truly loved her and 2) would he object if I got closer to her?
His reply: "1. I’m not in love and she knows it. 2. Get as close as you like, not my business."
I told her; she said she'd confront him about it. She came to see me the day after and said he'd denied all.
My heart broke. I wailed and I sobbed. This was SO unfair. And he was telling us two different stories.
I lost my cool and texted him, telling him we’d been in love for 9 months and that guilt over him was the only reason she wouldn’t sleep with me. No reply until later that night, when he texted both of us with “I’m sick of this nonsense, sort yourselves out!”
He said he was going to take "time out" (originaly intending for us to "do whatever you want with each other and she can choose which one of us she wants after", but at that piont he didn't realise that she'd already "chosen" him).
She became quiite distraught at the prospect of losing him, and made it quite plain that she needed to be with him to be happy even at the cost of our relationship. Nevertheless, we still Loved each other, hugged, kissed, cuddled… everything but sex, in fact. And sometimes that slipped ;) She said once in a very memorable text: “I Love you, I find you incredibly physically attractive, I want you, but I can’t have you.”
So I had to try to be content with her friendship – it was better than nothing - and as the only way to make her happy again was to get her back with S, did all I could to help, even though it broke my heart to do so.
Then it all got nasty. She lied to him, she lied to me about not lying to him, everyone got hurt. He ended up asking me what had gone on – I told the truth, all of it. And she finally confessed to him. After that, she was back to being the G that I Loved, and was once more affectionate with me, hugging me very tightly and telling me that whilst S was her 100%, I was her 99.999%.
So then he took his “time out” for “a week or two”, and would decide after that if he’d take her back. She, full of fear and apprehension (“I can’t imagine my life without him!”), went off to her villa in Spain for a week. Meanwhile, I had heard from an angry S, who sounded like he was definitely going to dump her and we’d find out on the Monday after she came back. Despite having promised her I’d tell her if I heard from him, I didn’t tell her this – she would have just got more and more anxious as the day approached. I really do CARE for her.
I wrote to him – 2 pages of A4 – pleading with him to be lenient, not to blame her for everything, how she just needed more love (quoted her: “R loves me, S loves me, I just needed more and you gave it”) and how she’d be so badly heartbroken if he left her. And how I was content with being her friend so long as he didn’t mind that – I promised I’d tell him if she tried anything more!
His reply came as a text: he said he’d been feeling “uneasy” about her for a while and so what he said that first time we talked was true. So it seemed he really DIDN’T love her that much, he WAS wanting to cool things down!!!
She came back on the Friday night, after midnight. I surprised her by meeting her at the airport and she gave me the longest, tightest hug she'd ever given me. And she took my hand as we walked, and kissed me on the lips as we parted. Yep, she Loves me still :)
The following day, S texted her telling her he’d see her with his decision on Monday... So despite my best intentions, she had 48 hours of hell, waiting, after all. Nicely done, S.
I texted her late on Sunday evening to say “tomorrow one of hearts will break for the very last time in this sorry affair. I suspect it’ll be mine, but at least you’ll be happy”. She replied “Oh, sweetie, I don’t want my happiness to be at the expense of yours!” She didn’t realise?!?!?
Still, she did say that if he took her back, we’d still be close friends. I was content with that. And yes, I hoped that it’d fizzle out anyway, and that would leave her to me.
Monday came. He said yes.
Tuesday came, he texted me to say that SHE had to decide which of us would be out of her life completely – “don’t think u2 can do just friends”. This, I have since confirmed, was her decision, despite what she said to me 2 days before.
S texted me the day after saying it was actually very close – “head said dump, heart said keep, still not sure I got it right!” I broke. To think my last hope of friendship with a woman I Love SO MUCH had been severed because of something that he’s THAT UNCERTAIN about!!!
I wrote him an 8-page letter full of stuff about just HOW close we two were, that I hadn't been able to say before for fear of influencing him away from her. He telephoned me after this, and it was most revealing...
* He reiterated something he’d said earlier - that he would have willingly “stepped aside” had he known there was something going on between us before. Yes, he would have been “sad because I love her too” (not, I noted, utterly *&@# heartbroken as I was) but he’d had 3 good years etc.
* He said that before this had all gone pear-shaped, she had started to demand more from him than he could give – “I can only give so much, and she wanted more.”
* He said that initially he was fighting my corner – he could see that we were in love and, as previously said, wanted to cool things down. This was an ideal way out.
* And he said that the ONLY reason that he took her back was to make her happy – like me, his aim was to make her happy, and she had obviously chosen him despite it making no sense to
either of us, so that was the only way to do it.
* She had NEVER CONFRONTED HIM about his "cooling off" comment - she lied to me about that. But then... I guess she didn't want to hear him say it, so made up her own "fantasy version" which went the way she wanted it to. Oh dear....
* He finished with "bide your time – I’m getting old (he's 60, 13 years her senior!) and won’t feel like doing this much longer anyway!"
So here I am, nearly 3 weeks later. Utterly heartbroken. Waking at 3am every night, thinking of her. Getting anxiety attacks 2/3 times a day. And it seems the only person that wants her to be with him, is her. Both he and I think she should be with me!
And I absolutely cannot stop wondering why ON EARTH she was/is so completely fixated on this older man, who very, VERY clearly doesn’t love her, to the point that she rejected a very Loving relationship with me for the sake of him. It just doesn’t make sense.
Can anyone (especially women) explain to me why this is???
Could it be related to her father having left home when she was a kid? That worries me – it's scary psychological stuff.
And what worries me more is that she has no-one she can talk to about this if (when!) it all goes wrong, as her affair with S, as well as me, is secret – whilst I'm sure he suspects, her husband (oh, yes - I briefly alluded to him as "R" earlier ;)) has chosen to turn a blind eye to her affair(s).
I want my friend back. I have a primal urge to love, care for and protect her, and it hurts SO MUCH to be prevented from doing this by her own mindless obsession with him, and his soft-heartedness in stringing her along in a relationship that his heart just isn't in.
So my questions are:
WHY did she reject the certain Love of a man for the very doubtful love of another, who was back-tracking anyway? Why is she so... obsessed with him?
Should I worry about this obsession?
What the heck can I do???
Comments
"Why did she reject the certain love of a man for the very doubtful love of another." Why are you willing to wait around for a woman who has doubtful love for you? Because you love her right? Well she loves him...
Why is she so obsessed with him because she can't have him, not completely. He could take her or leave her and that keeps her there, intrigued and obsessed with approval. If you were to walk out on her and stand your ground the roles would change, she may then want you more.
I This sounds mentally and emotionally draining. You're willing to take whatever she's willing to give you and she's willing to take whatever he's willing to give her. You're in the same situation that she is in. You sound like a nice decent man and should not settle for second choice. think you should walk out of this unhealthy situation, yes it will be very hard at first, but I can't imagine it being any easier than the current situation you are in. Time heals everything and you will eventually feel happy about your decision when you're no longer emotionally attached to this unhealthy situation.
> Why are you willing to wait around for a woman who has doubtful love for you?
But there's nothing doubtful about her love for me. She made it quite plain that she loved me, very much. She also made it plain that she loved him. I'm sure this is hurting her, too, but she had to choose one or other of us.
I completely appreciate your point about him being "unobtainable". I did, in fact, try walking out.. but the bottom line is, I DON'T PLAY LOVE GAMES, and it only took a single smile from her to have me taking her back - I could no more hide my true feelings for her than she can hide hers for me (as I found that Friday night, 2 days before we parted).
> You sound like a nice decent man and should not settle for second choice
Thank you, that's very nice of you to say :)
And no, you're absolutely right. I WON'T be "second choice" - if he dumps her, I'm not going to going running to her like a @#& puppy. Aside from the foolishness of it, she hurt me ONE HELL of a lot, and I'd have a lot of trouble trusting her. She'd need to make a definite commitment to me by leaving HIM. That'd be another matter, but it'd be "friends only" for quite a while.
> think you should walk out of this unhealthy situation,
Well, it's not like I had a choice - she broke off communication with me anyway, and I've made no effort to contact her. We haven't spoken for 3 weeks, so I'm effectively "being unavailable" anyway!
But I CAN'T let go - she's in the wrong relationship, she still loved me at the point we parted (and I can't see what other than a LOT of time would change that), he doesn't really want her... how can I walk away and forget her?
She was very, very special, and that's comparing to 28 years of dating and more than a dozen relationships of a greater or lesser degree and all the wisdom and cynicism that comes with being hurt and/or fooled several times before. This just doesn't make sense.
What I don't want to happen is for the two of them to break up and her to be too scared/embarrassed/sheepish to come to me with an olive branch. So I want to keep the door open, as it were - but purely for friendship. At first, anyway ;)
Thank you, though, Anonymous-person, for your input. You say it like it is. I appreciate that.
Curiously, I learned that yesterday she asked a mutual friend for my phone number........
So she's in the wrong relationship...that's her problem now, lucky for you you're no longer the one in a wrong relationship. If she can't appreciate someone who genuinely loves her then she'll just have to learn the hard way. If this man genuinely doesn't care about her then it's a matter of time before she sees that she's losing something that's real (you) over someone who doesn't really care about her. So the fact that she chose him is a good thing, she needs to get it out of her system because if she were to stay with you ONLY because he told her no she would not be able to give herself to you fully. It would kill me inside to spend time with someone and wonder if they are thinking about the other person when they are with me, comparing me and wishing they were present instead. Wouldn't that bother you? Wouldn't you wonder if she's secretly seeing him behind your back? Trust and peace of mind is very important in a relationship.
You don't want to be someone a person is settling for...no one should be. I'm sure there are other women out there that are just as wonderful who would choose you over anyone else. I know you are too into this woman at the moment to see clearly, but do keep your options open you may be pleasantly surprised one day and happy that she made the decision that she did.
I honestly agree with every sentence of your first paragraph. But especially this one:
"It would kill me inside to spend time with someone and wonder if they are thinking about the other person when they are with me, comparing me and wishing they were present instead"
Ain't that exactly what he'll be going through now? And given that he is only with her for her sake anyway...
Well, I just hope that she realises she made the wrong choice and cures herself of her obsession with him before he dumps her - that could hurt her terribly, and I do care for her as a friend as well as anything else.
I think I might just print out that first paragraph of yours and pin it on my wall to keep reminding me!
You are very wise.
Thank you very, very much.
Lol, I'm glad you agree and are considering printing that paragraph and putting it up on your wall. Yes that will be exactly what he will be wondering and she will be wondering if she made the wrong choice too. I don't know about you, but I'd rather be the one being missed and though of.
I once dated a man who was engaged before we met and the engagement was broken off, we started dating a few months later. He could never fully commit to me emotionally because he stayed friends with her and she was a big love in his life so he always wondered what if even though he did have strong feelings for me. Long story short we broke it off stayed casual friends because of this and he got back with her and married her. Within a year he offered to leave her for me and missed me, he realized it was something he needed to get out of his system, but was more hung up on what they once had which wasn't truly there anymore. He told me that he kept thinking about me and realized he may have made the wrong choice. He admitted that; however, if he would have stayed with me instead of her that it would have been the other way around, that he would have been thinking about her and we wouldn't have worked out because of it. So yeah, it's a good thing she's with him now.
Your tale just makes me think how daft monogamy is..... ;)
You say how he regretted leaving you for her, but how did you feel? How DO you feel?
Meanwhile, there have been developments.....
Last week, she logged into instant messenger for the first time since we split. After a while she sent me a messaage.... it said:
.
That was it.
So I replied:
?
Nothing else came back.
The following day, I set my (publically viewable) status to "One month nearly up". Shortly after, she set HER status to "And I hope you're OK".
Ooh. Contact! Albeit somewhat indirect.
So I changed mine to say "I hope you are too. I miss you"
She started a chat session with me, and asked if I wanted to chat.
I said it would be breaking my one-month contact embargo, but I would if she wanted to.
She back-pedalled andd agreed that we really shouldn't.
I said it would only be a few more days, then I'd send her something (I didn’t say what - it’s just a card offering a hand of friendship). She said I shouldn’t as it “broke our rules.”
Two hours later, she reappeared online. Didn't contact me, but set her public status to display her home address.
*sigh*
It was as though she wanted me to send her something, she wanted contact from me, but couldn’t allow herself to tell me straight; she had to leave messages for me where I’d see them but couldn’t actually tell me directly. She still wanted me, but was “not allowed to have me”.
It felt as though she was wrestling with her own conscience/psyche, sneaking messages out without her “other self” seeing. She seems... trapped?
We chatted online briefly after that. She said I'd need to make sure it got there before Tuesday as she was going away. And then said "but you shouldn't send anything really."
And she texted me on Saturdayfor the first time in a month - just amiable stuff, saying what she was up to (at a beer festival, and therefore quite probably drunk, which I guess is how she had the courage to text me!). I told her I was off to see Skyfall: "Enjoy, my dear"
This just smacks of emotional dependency to me. And I don't know what to do next. I CANNOT abandon her - I know for certain now, from her behaviour last week, that she still loves me, still wants me. As I do her. SHe's just too emotionally dependent on S to leave him.
If I don't send this card that I said I would, will she want me more or think I've given up on her?
If I do, will it reinforce all the good memories we have of each other, or remind her of what she "cannot" have and make her withdraw again?
Or should I go in all guns blazing and, as Billy Joel once put it (yep, showing my age), "Tell her about it". Write her an apologetic letter telling her exactly how I feel about her?
Wibble.
I was sad when he first chose her, you can't help but feel like you're lacking something that the other person has. But in the end I'm glad he chose her, I would have never been happy or at ease in our relationship. I would have always wondered if he would have preferred her or if he was seeing her behind my back. It was a long time ago and we stayed friends there was no hard feelings.
You are not abandoning her...she abandoned you! She may care about you, but in the end it doesn't mean she wants you back (just yet), she could have you if she wants and she knows that. She may just want reassurance that you still care about her and are still around (in case it doesn't work out with S), that in itself can be hard to lose. Sorry if that sounds harsh...
If she does contact you (I would say don't reply), but if you must it's best you keep your replies brief or take your time to actually reply. That will not give her the reassurance she is looking for and that in itself can work wonders! Why do you think she chose S...
I would not send her the letter, it will not reinforce that she cannot have you, on the contrary. By you sending it or replying to her you are giving her that reassurance she is looking for and will then fulfill her and and she will then miss you less. She needs to miss you and by you staying away as you can tell it's heading that way.
In the meantime start dating other women. There are other women out there that you can have as great of a connection with and who you are capable of loving just as much. And will love you back...unconditionally. It's hard to believe at the moment because when you're the one in the picture it's hard to see thing clearly because the saying is so true that "love is blind!"
Um.... well.... the thing is....
I delivered the card to her yesterday morning. Just put it through her letterbox and walked away.
I got as far as the garden gate when she opened the door and called after me: "Are you not staying then?"
I froze as she opened and read the card - remember, this card is all about reforming our friendship, nothing else.
She smiled, and chuckled. And invited me in for a cup of tea :)
There was, of course, some tension in the air. But we got on like old friends - caught up with what had been happening in our lives for the last month. No mention (deliberately on my part) of anything emotional, or anything to do with S. I just don't want to know at the moment. Surprisingly, perhaps, I didn't feel an urge to fall at her feet and beg her to come back to me ;) But I did catch her looking into my eyes as I turned my head back to her a few times after pausing to stare out of the window... and that made me feel a very deep love again.
I helped her fix the hard-top on her car, then said I should go.
At the door, we hugged. it just.. happened. It was another one of *those* hugs, like the one I had 4 weeks before - she was not for stopping. And her breathing became ragged as we each caressed each others' backs, and stroked each others' hair.....
She finally broke off and kissed my cheek. I looked into her eyes, smiled and said "see you later then!", kissed her lightly on the lips and left.
She waved to me from her front window as I drove away.
Today she's off to Spain with her brother until Monday. That should give her some thinking-time.
To your reply:
Yes, she abandoned me, but only because she was forced to. It was him or me, and I believe I know why she chose him: emotional dependency and the fact that it's easier to leave someone than be left by them. She feels a "loyalty" to him because, as she put it, "he came first" and "I'm a coward". That's all it is. And it looks like she really does regret it, but is "trapped" by her own "need" for him. It's an addiction - a clinically recognised one, at that.
I'm seriously considering getting professional advice on it.
I appreciate your advice to keep my distance to make her want me, but my fear is that she'll will put me "out of sight & out of mind"; every time she thinks of me, she'll tell herself "no, no, must be devoted to S!" until she stops thinking of me altogether. She's become very proficient at suppressing her emotions, as I've found out :(
Of course, that might well make her more "clingy" to him, which he'll hate...
My current thinking is that we should maintain a friendship, but stay friends-only. She, I believe, will want more but not be able to get it because of her fixation on S. Hopefully her desire for me will overcome her fear of leaving him.
She had a reminder yesterday of just how good it feels to be held tightly, lovingly by me. That HAS to be having some effect!
As I said, I could probably do with professional advice on how to help her break her emotional dependency on him. Especially if it stems from childhood abandonment.
As for dating other women, I'm far too honest. I couldn't mislead someone by making her think I was "available" when my heart belonged to another. That would be deceitful.
I do admit, though, I've sometimes found myself wishing I had a "friend with benefits" just for some affection and sexual release! I know I'd only regret it, though - I always do if it's "sex" instead of "making love".
There is a big chance she may not take you back whether you stick around or not. In any case I don't think it's a healthy situation for you to be in. I couldn't imagine you having peace of mind and I think you would spend too much energy analyzing everything she does and says.
I dated someone for a while and recently we ended things. He wanted to stay friends and I agreed, but then I was pretty short with his e-mails and txt and decided it was not healthy for me to talk to him since feelings were still there and I can honestly say I am so glad I did...it's like ripping off a band-aid. I never told him that we wouldn't talk I just took it upon myself to avoid anything that had to do with him and heal myself first. And I have to say I'm feeling very cheery these days (although not completely over it) as long as I have no contact with him I'm great and can see how emotionally and mentally draining that relationship was now... Maybe we can still be friends at a later time, but not until I'm genuinely okay with being "just friends..." I guess what I'm trying to say is it may feel like you have the upper hand and are in control, but unless you are not emotionally involved she's the one in control and your mind and emotions can turn into mess. In the end it's your choice...
Dating doesn't mean marriage, I think dating can be fun and a great way to meet people and make new friends if anything. How old are you if you don't mind me asking? I just think time goes by to fast to wait around for one person. Especially in your case when based on population there are three women for every man.
But did why you end things? Because it wasn't working - one of you didn't love the other?
That's not the case here - we both love each other still, she just CAN'T be with me due to S, or rather her psychological, emotional dependency on him.
In ALL ways but one, our relationship was very, very positive - it recharged us rather than drained us. The only reason it was "emotionally draining" was her maintaining a relationship with a man who wasn't giving her enough love (which is why she wanted me in the first place), which it transpires was on its way out anyway. She, as he said to me himself, should have ended it with him as soon as she found me. But she was too scared to, too dependent on him.
I can only assume that you don't believe me when I say that I can tell that she still loves me. Why? Because "surely if she did then she'd have chosen me"? Defies logic, doesn't it? THAT is why I came here in the first place.
"Latisha" in this summary describes her perfectly: http://academicwritingtips.org/component/k2/item/2889-emotional-dependency-and-family-relationships.html
Especially "This kind of love leads to dependency because the other party anticipates some loving in return for the love that s/he offers. This leads to a feeling that you cannot actually live without the other person." Exactly what she said, and for exactly the same reason.
I'm 46. And yes, I've had my fair share of break-ups and being dumped, so I'm by no means naive. This really IS different.