I have been with my husband for the past 17 years. I was only 21 when we met. After a year we had our first child, the second came quickly. We live away from family and have very few friends (my husband is quite insular and doesn't readily make friends).
He has worked away a lot of our married life and so i have had to manage the house and children alone as well as working full time. We have always had issues around communication - for what ever reason, i seem to be able to 'push a button' in him that makes him raise his voice and shout excessively over the slightest thing. He is also very possessive about 'his things' and accuses me of moving things/ throwing things away and will not accept my response that i have not. This initially made me quite scared of confronting him, i would just accept the shouting, get upset until eventually he would stop shouting (until the next time).
Please don't get me wrong, he has never been physically violent towards me, he provides well for his family and i do not want for anything materialistic (witihin reason). However, i have continued like this for a number of years and i just 'switched off' or fought my corner as well as i could. We went on to have a third child who is now 4 and a half. He is a lovely little boy and i wouldn't be without him.
For as long as i can remember, i have not felt truely loved and cherished. When we are intimate (which is not very often) it feels like 'functional sex' it doesn't feel like we are making love - that sounds like a romantic notion i know. When he kisses me i don't feel warmth, when he touches me i don't feel and 'sensations' - i just feel incredibly cold and lonely. He doesn't say anything romantic or sensual during sex - he is infact quite crude when he describes what he would like to do to me (I tend to just ignor it ) i think this contributed to me not really wanting sex. Infact, i thought there was something wrong with me because i was not feeling turned on and i thought at 35 i was rather too young to need KY jelly (i know this isn't the case for everyone and i don't mean to sound flippant it's just how i felt).
It was only last year that i met a lovely man, i have known him for a number of years as a colleague who i say hello to and generally pass the time of day with. I also work with his wife occassionally (i know this is bad!). Anyway, a spark was ignited between us and those feelings came flooding back i wanted to rip his clothes off there an then. It was a long time before our relationshiip became physical in the true sense of the word. I didn't feel any guilt, it felt so natural, i felt loved and desired. Now you may say this was the first throws of a relationship but we have been seeing each other fora year now. There have been times when we have discussed the impact on our families, the upset it would cause but both agreed that this relationship was special for each of us - it's almost like he could be my husband as i behave towards my husband as his wife behaves towards him (I know this is true and therefore have no need to doubt this as a way of him having his cake and eating it).
Obviously as the relationhsip moved on, emotions became stronger and i truely believe i have fallen in love with this man,not just as a lover but also as a friend - we tell each other everything. However, he couldn't tell me or wuldn't tell me what i meant to him and how he felt and i really needed to know but i didn't ahve the courage to end it. It came to a head just before christmas when he told me that his wife had decided to attend couple counselling with him (he has been trying to get her to go forever, and has been in counselling himself for almost 2 years) I told him i wanted to walk away and let them have space to sort it out and that i was happy for them both. He txt me the next day, he asked to meet with me, i told him it was abad idea but he said he needed to speak with me so i agreed - unfortunately this led to a rekindling of feelings and a backtrack on the decision i had made. Things were a little tense over the period, i really needed to know how he felt about me and asked him to tell me a good reason not to end our relationship -he didn't.
I was so confused - eventually we met and although he said he felt the relationship couldn't go anywhere further i agreed and we decided to part. I have good days and bad days - today is a bad day, i miss him so much. I have talked to my husband about my feelings towards him. I have told him that i do not feel happy, that i don't feel my emotional needs are being met and i can't carry on as we are. I acknowledged that it must be difficult for him working long hours and that i appreciate all he does for the family, but said i couldn't carry on the way we were. He said he appreciated me talking to him and said we could work on the emotional stuff. Then we ended up having sex - to be honest i didn't want to have sex i wanted to be held but after pouring my heart out i didn't feel able to say no and actually i wanted to behave in a loving way towards him. I have really tried to be more close and loving toward him (i know its only the weekend) but i have struggled with sex, i don't feel anything no desire, no arousal - nothing really.
That's why i am writing here in an attempt to find some help with how to deal with these emotions:
I know it's wrong wht i havve done - my husband doesnt' deserve to be lied to and cheated on and i am truely sorry but for obvious reasons i can't tell him that.
I want to try and be more loving and close with him - i want to enjoy an active and responsive sex life but don't know how i can do it if i don't feel arousal or desire (it was like this before the other man came into my life).
I don't want to feel sad at loosing the other man, i want to try and love him like a brother (if i can) as we are also really good friends and i don't want to loose that either.
I know this is a tall order and i understand that there seems to be a lot of confilicting things to consider, but any help/advice would be gratefully received. thanks for listening/reading
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Esme (a member of the Talk It Out team) on 13 January 2009 at 10:15pm said...
From your post it sounds as if you felt that your colleague was able to give you what you felt was missing from your relationship with your husband. Your colleague and his wife are going to counselling together and you seem to acknowledge that things have changed between you. You and your husband are now talking about the issues you've had but you still feel confused about your conflicting emotions. It may help you both if you speak to a counsellor-this may help you both to express, and understand, your different emotional and sexual needs.
Anonymous on 14 January 2009 at 10:15am said...
Hi LiverpoolLou,
I'm not sure I can offer you any advice but just want to say I really feel for you in your situation. You've been really brave telling your husband how you're feeling, keep talking and sharing your thoughts. Yu've been together a long time, and after so long there's bound to be really tough times like this. Keep working, think about the things that yuo do love about your husband. It might be worth also telling him when you don't want sex talk - we can't always be in themood. Maybe also suggest he gives you a massage or something, but with no further intentions. If you're clear he can't get the wrong idea. Physical intimacy is really important and I hope you can trecapture it and build on your relationship together.
Warm wishes, x
Anonymous on 14 January 2009 at 2:49pm said...
i kinda know were your coming from. i haven't been with my boyfriend for as long as you but i have been with him for 3 yrs and there isn't that spark anymore between us anymore. i dont feel as if i am in a relationship with him only as friend.
LiverpoolLou on 14 January 2009 at 6:33pm said...
This comment has been edited by a member of the "Talk It Out" team
Esme - thank you for your comments. It's funny, i knew things were 'not right' at home for a long time but was too frightened to acknowledge it/didn't want to confront it/wanted to believe it would be ok. [edited due to personal information]. I feel completely alone, apart from my children i feel i have nothing happy in my life and i don't know what to do.
LiverpoolLou on 14 January 2009 at 6:35pm said...
Thank you all for your kind words, they do mean a lot to me. I don't know if things will get better, i am willing to try but if you read my comment to esme i am feeling very lonely and down at the moment. I appreciate your support..x
Anonymous on 28 January 2009 at 9:10am said...
I feel for you.
Anonymous on 28 January 2009 at 9:18am said...
I am in similar situation, but do not have any affair yet. Since I have no feelings and sexual desire with my husband, I feel I am just wasting my time. For past 2 years, I might have sex only 4 times and once since 1 and half year back. He is a gentleman and very nice person, but he hasn't contributed to our life until now. I pay the rent, utility bills, credit card bill, and expenses. I thought, after breaking up with previous man, I am going to settle down for ever and tried hard not to be in relationship for almost 4 years until I met my husband. I do not know what I should do. I really do not want to count my relationship. I do not want to upset my family and friends by not succeeding in any relationship.
Anonymous on 28 January 2009 at 10:58am said...
Guys....these comments may not be welcomed.... but I personally find these kind of sites quite damaging, all comments are full of warm wishes and similar experiences but are they not just reinstating how you feel rather than dealing with things pro-actively and helping you move forward??
LiverpoolLou (& others) you've done nothing wrong and what you are going through is normal. Unfortunately I feel this is life and to a certain extent these 'issues' are to be expected when you've been in a long term relationship. I have a very practical outlook on things perhaps but I honestly feel life is far too short to wallow in unhappiness feeling that 'if only'. You live once so deal with the problems and move forward. It comes down to 2 things 1-You love him 2-You dont love him...you just need to act on the relevant answer.
If you love him, try your hardest to rekindle things. Make the effort to spend personal time with eachother..WITHOUT...the kids and get to know each other again.Make a pact to go out just the two of you once a week, make sure you talk to each other about yourselves and get your relationship as a couple, back on track. Your husband will obviously need to put the same effort in. The first step is understanding how you both want to move forward and then agreeing that you both need to understand and act upon the others feelings. Its so hard to be seen as a partner & lover instead of just the mother of his children...we all have these problems.
If you know deep down you dont love him then it's hard but make make the first steps to moving forward without him. I appreciate how hard and daunting this can be but as previously mentioned...life is too short to just make do and there really is more out there...even if it doesnt seem like it now.
Relationships are hard, there are no easy options but see things for what they are and understand we (as the female)play our part in the downslide of things also. That saying..."It takes two"....is what it comes down to.
Apologies if any of you feel this rant doesnt have the 'feel good' factor but I just think we have to deal with things at times rather than getting sucked into being unhappy and putting up with it. It doesnt matter if a. anonymous is going through the same thing....you need to deal with your own life and take charge.
Good luck honnies...we all go through it...its not nice...but we hve to come out the other side:)) xxxx
Jenny (a member of the Talk It Out team) on 29 January 2009 at 4:42pm said...
This comment has been edited by a member of the "Talk It Out" team
Thank you for your detailed observations. You have given the TOIT a great opportunity to clarify what the website has to offer those who visit it!
The Talk It Out area gives individuals the chance to discuss and share
their feelings and relationship issues with others. The relief that
many users experience in doing this is crucial part of the helping
process (see the link on the home page of the website), as it can increase
understanding or bring a new perspective to an issue or situation
which in turn allows users to think about making changes.
Research shows people say they benefit from sharing their story with others - a sense of relief in telling your story, a feeling of not being the only one, information and tips on how to move forward (just as you have contributed).
For those who wish to access it there is material on the site for moving on - in Check it out and Work it out and info about where to go for help.
Anonymous on 28 March 2009 at 2:11am said...
This comment has been edited by a member of the "Talk It Out" team
Comment deleted as it contravenes para 3.1.6 of the Terms and Conditions of the site.
Anonymous on 28 March 2009 at 4:06pm said...
this is always going to happen.......people who are hurting are going to hurt others......so here you are inflicting pain........because you hurt........you would have been better off talking to the husband you made vows with.......now you can feel more pain and hurt yourself and other more. But this is the cycle of unenlighted living.
DaveAngel on 28 March 2009 at 5:12pm said...
This theme is dominant here...unhappy women in unfulfilling relationships. It seems to me that there should be a special forum designed especially for this problem...
I assure you it is the same for the guys, and the only reason it is less voluminous is that they are usually poorer communicators and think it is bad to show weakness.
I cant advocate for any morality, but feel so much pain and sadness for your situation.
I was living out in the country for a while a year ago, and the faces I saw bespoke of a great loneliness and sense of imprisonment. The air was toxic, and the faces were haunted...
This problem has been haunting me for a long time. What can be done? It is almost as this problem is a great unspoken crisis... It is if I see a whole gamut of ppl who are led into lifes adventures without the tools and training necessary to lead a fulfilling life (myself included).
This problem needs some serious attention...because really it is a national- perhaps global- crisis.
The great moralists stake out their positions, and seem to perpetuate this cycle of desperation and devastation.
Everyday we walk past our neighbour, who might be you or me, and what do we do, what do we say? It really strains my sensibilities and sense of responsibility for my fellow brothers and sisters... ???? ....
Anonymous on 29 March 2009 at 1:48pm said...
I was thinking that it is more like a stream of ideas. Women abused, neglected, victimized, for thousands of years thinking alike, passing down and surviving this treatment. Sexually they have been demoralized, used, belittled. Now here in this age they are breaking free but confused and hurting those around them. The images of themselfs and what they want are being blurred by the new found free choices....so here they are acting like selfish, thoughtless, confused people causing pain and hurt to themselfs and the families and husbands they said they loved and felt so many wonderful things in the beginning....how will this be any different with someone else they have affairs with. I was thinking it is more noble to be honest with the person you told to trust you in the beginning and let them understand you are lost and confused and wish to get out there and play around for awhile. So they can see you for who you really are and leave you. But that would take gumption....sneaking and having the cake too is well.....small.
DaveAngel on 29 March 2009 at 1:53pm said...
I have to agree with you there...
But choosing the right partner...thats the thing that I keep coming back to...
Anonymous on 29 March 2009 at 2:07pm said...
what would our world be without the (morals understood and passed down through understandings of consiquinces caused by individuals making choices that affect those around them)? Aren't morals just advice learned from choices? It is right to lie to someone who trusts you in a situation like this is it...I mean if she is confused and lost herself in an affair...lies to her friend she made trust with...how is this moral? I'm not angry here at all just confused I suppose. For me the idea that this is something that is going to take place through out the ages is kind of comforting because there is really nothing changed about the human drama taking place since how ever long we have been here. Lying hurting etc....is the reason for so much pain. she is not being true to the morals and ideas of marriage, honor, trust. I feel for her husband who will crash and burn when he has to face her immoral choices that will cause much pain. Her family who will suffer because she lacked the strength to tell him before she disavowed their marriage. I want to understand how feeling sorry for her helps her see the magnitude of what see is doing to the idea of love and trust and marriage. It simply feels like agreeing with her that she is a victim and I do not think anyone is rather they only think they are. So here she is believing she is a helpless victim being thrown around in the tempest of an affair...while honestly she is a human making choices every step of the way.
Anonymous on 29 March 2009 at 2:13pm said...
How do you choose the right partner.......if they say they are one thing but lie and are another. It isn't until you find them out that you can make this choice.
some though never say who they are ...some just fake it or script life involuntarly. I wish we were all more healthy and loving. I wish we all were careful and beautiful and wonderful and not hurting each other.
Anonymous on 29 March 2009 at 2:19pm said...
How do I find that person??? I thought I would know the one I married and love them but they betrayed my this trust and love. Turns out she is just as lost as anyone........but here I am wondering what to make of it all. She said who she was and then she lost....I was confused as to why for a while....am I the right partner? I am here as I am...not lying or hiding. I am sincere.....I am a man, a father, a caring person...maybe all this betrayal has me doubting myself so much. But this is what affairs do to others...
DaveAngel on 29 March 2009 at 3:04pm said...
Laws? Morals? They change as fast as the earth spins...
Morals and desires... what are we that causes them to clash in us? what are the signs here? What are they telling us?
The good law, self chosen..right for me...what is that?
Who goes into marriage- as a tender babe in the world- with their eyes wide open? You tell me.
So you were starving and you could not would not were not able to find the food of warmth and togetherness in your OWN home.
So, starving, someone offered you a morsel, and starving inside and burning for a bit more life and sustenance, you ate.
Forbidden fruit. Why is it forbidden? Who made the rule? What is its purpose?
From on high and down low, I hear a chorus singing- 'for the children'.
So this is the plan then...to make a nest for the children...
The basics- no problem... But what if we find another, a better a more, a shared? What then? You tell me.
Laws are outmoded every day...In australia in the new government 100 old laws were thrown out in one day! And what were those laws? Gay ppls need to be acknowledged by law in marriage The thing so many are finding to be a prison and are wanting to be freed from...
It is too deep for my powers of perception to crack open, but I ask myself...after all the world has told me their rules, do I decide to follow, or do I decide to choose?
You tell me.
daveangel.
_(And I am awarely sorry if this philosophising doesnt offer help 2 u..but the upverse is that it helps me...)
Anonymous on 29 March 2009 at 5:55pm said...
I'm thinking if you are not well in your home you tell the other person and leave. Not use the person to check out what tastes better then rip a rug under them because you lack ?????? morals. Not laws but morals. If you hit a tender babe your not really a moral person, that is an understanding in and of itself. I think better is just green grass, but it your grass is not watered then yes, communicate and leave your spouse with or without trying but a the very most let them see you for who you are and let them leave you completely also. That's exactly what I am saying it is a choice not just somewhere you find yourself all of a sudden and don't know what you should do. Cause no harm. Laws were created to hold back so many that cause harm without check. Without check and moral understandings what would we be subject to at the whims of anyone acting out different levels of confusion or projected hate.
DaveAngel on 30 March 2009 at 9:26pm said...
Hey you, "Anonymous", in the bunk above me!
Please explain the difference between;
subconscious choice
and
conscious choice
???
From what I am hearing, you are postulating that all humans are rational and are making rational choices- right?
Also they are making rational choices in a world where there is an understood and clear cut ladder of morals/values- right?
deliriousdaveangel.
Anonymous on 31 March 2009 at 3:06am said...
I am thinking it is called love, love for the person you are screwing over, love for your family, love for yourself, love being the right that is transcendent, in us, around us, always it is there..............
DaveAngel on 31 March 2009 at 5:09am said...
Huh?
...I surmise your response means you dont really want to address the question...
All your answers are, in sequential order- Love is what I say it is... love is love? And love is ambivalent? Love is cruel? Love is relationships and responsibilities? Love is the process of rising above? Love is here there and everywhere?
That seems absurd...
I could change the word love to 'giggling' for example or 'fred' and it would make as much sense to my mind...
Seems to me you are using a 'universal love' concept to promote/justify a sense of moral right and a sense of judgement and disapproval...because you are pissed off that someone had an affair and 'how dare they fall in 'love' with someone else!' i.e. 'I think that it is 'bad', and 'wrong'' all the while being blameless because 'loving' or 'good'...
Love happens (they used to say SH$t happens) I guess...
What I dont get is that if everything is love, then how can anything be bad wrong evil blah blah?
Why cant you just accept the folly of 'love' working in these ppl (and us)and move on- or should you say quietly 'oh well love I guess...'
So am I gathering correctly that love to you is not really 'all'- is it? It has conditions, rules, codes, expectations exceptions, judgements- which you are somehow mysteriously 'in the know' about. And if it has all these things then if they are not approved, then they are cast out into a kind of loveless void? A kind of second hand love zone, trash love, love trash, love prison, love ghetto, unlove...ummm...
If you are preaching your line without trying to understand (love, empathise with,) this person- how is that loving? What is the plan, the purpose?
I mean- cmon, sure it is nice to imagine that 'all is love, and love is all' but when does wish fulfillment fantasy meet up with the REAL?
It is fairly apparent to me that this 'love thing' is like a SOndra HAy affirmation- a 'fake it till you make it', 'pretend it is real and it just might happen' kind of thinking. Is that even close? And that perhaps this will allow us to 'manifest' 'love'...a kind of 'miracle'?
From my experience brother/sister, wishing (when the basic premise is flawed) usually only allows us a form of escape and becomes eventually delusion. Does a seed grow in the garden because we wish it would? Do the dishes do themselves as we wish- a kind of sorcerers trick? (I always didnt like harry potter for just this reason.)
How does that help ppl with their kids, their mortgages, their relationships, their jobs? Or is all that stuff unimportant blah because ppl have no love and should dump it all overboard and find 'it'. Whatever 'it' is...
I know there is love in the world, but there is alot more to it than just that, and love ( a kind of universal goodness) is in fact in the small minority bracket (otherwise the world would be a better place- right?).
In fact, life itself, its incessant urge to create is not stemming 'from' love at all, but something that is only 'upon the way to' it, (like us) growing towards it, (implying that our world is not yet mature or perfect and really only an adolescent- not yet a woman/man/being. (and if that is the goal then what does that say about us?).
And if that is the case wouldnt it be more appropriate to say that the universal energy pervading 'all' here- for us to breathe and live and grow in- is not really love at all, but is actually DESIRE?
...and if it is indeed desire, then it is not self contained nor eternal like goodness but is driven by urge, and is split between conflicting poles such as desire/fear, attraction/repulsion, craving/aversion etc?
..it is bi-polar like our awareness of the planet itself- and ourselves as well-and is ceaselessly fracturing from unstable wholes into areas of new awarenesses, consciousness and experience? Fractalising, morphing, mutating, chaotic with the only anchor being the point- which is us/desire?
I pray do tell...
daveangel.
Anonymous on 08 April 2009 at 12:36pm said...
I have a problem as my husband shares our talks with his brother and even does not talk to me if I am not required for anything and I think the reason is that we do not have children yet. Also he shares my even my doctor reports with his brother. He always remains silent whenever or whatever is told to him and he never takes any intiative or supports me emtionally although we have a love marriage.
Anonymous on 09 April 2009 at 3:39pm said...
I just thought I would add my two pence, three weeks ago my wife of 13yrs informed me our marriage is over, the day before she was telling me what a wonderful husband I was faithful reliable loving etc...Sunday she tells me that she no longer loves me or desires me.... I am now being divorced on the grounds of unreasonable behavior (working too many hours), and she has moved out of the house with my two daughters (3&5), we had never argued we had always been able to discuss our issues, but this one! I am deversted that I was not informed of her feelings or was given the chance to rectify our relasonship, she claims there is no other this is the way she feels......I married on the grounds it was for life I’m gutted for my children who have seen me once since she left with them, and im left with the biggest roller coaster of emotions that I have ever had im my life, constantly asking myself what did I do wrong?
From where im sitting LiverpoolLou is doing the right thing in discussing the problems (apart from the affair) and I hope they work it out. As this of the fence I want nothing more than to have my family back the since of loss is very overwhelming, not to mention the thoughts of what happens next, my stbx wife just seems to be getting on with everything she is in rented accommodation to which the government has kindly paid for and now probably gets more money off the state than I earn in my wage, and she seems very happy to keep me informed of how well she's doing <<<<moving into a different story...
So my thoughts are talk talk talk.....you married for a reason, things will be up and down but the challenge is to work it out.....do you really think your husband likes being at work 24/7 ?...... I only did it so I could provide for my family, and now I really regret it.
My head is in a whirlpool at the moment I apologize for errors
M
Anonymous on 18 May 2009 at 2:15pm said...
I just think you have only one life and you need to take a bit of control. Decide what you want and then follow that course.No-one really knows what is around the corner.But don't stay in limbo.You deserve to feel loved and have fun and be cared for and cherished.If your marriage does not offer that then get out and if you end up single for a while, remember there are other wonderful guys out there.
DaveAngel on 18 May 2009 at 5:07pm said...
The two posts above the ast one should be articles whoever you ppl are...I suggest you paste them there...
to the guy who works his life away, what about balance?
D.angel.
confused64 on 29 May 2009 at 7:50pm said...
Hi everyone,
Are we talking about sex or love? and what about Growing Intimacy in Relationships? or doesn't it mean anything anymore, just jump into bed, If it feels great Wham!, you hit the Jackpot. This is how the World is thinking now?, nobody want's to work things out anymore, the minute a relationship is having a little problem, Wham, Bham, Thank You Mam!, or vice versa.
Where has our moral values gone? is this the lesson we are teaching our children? that Infidelity is O.K ? HELLO! ,we made commitments to our marriage and our children, we have the future generation to think about.
When things are not going great in your marriage, "Hey", lets bring some people in. Will there not be more problems?, If you don't have the GUTS to deal with this relationship, there is no way you will be able to deal with the other one, " What you gonna do, leave that one and get another?.
When you keep running you will not have the emotional love that you crave. When you marry someone, It's for life, or suppose to be, marriage is for better or for worse, It is not always exciting, there are good times and bad times, as being a couple, you teach each other, weather you speak to each other or you show each other.
We all learn from one another, when we love each other all we need is action,and in the bedroom that's all we need, whenever you are doing something think to yourself, "Is this going to affect my spouse, how will he feel about this", and vice versa, you always think of the other person, after all you are not married to yourself.
Make this world a better place for all of us.
West Indies.
feline1 on 18 February 2010 at 8:34am said...
LiverpoolLou, . It was like looking in the mirror reading your post, prior to reading it I had been feeling like I was the "only one in this situation" I have been with my husband for nearly 24years , at first all was great, we only had one son; but my husband had been married before and had a son from his first marriage ( who never lived with us). It has got, for me, to the stage where I cant stay in the same bed as him ( I tend to sleep on the sofa), the intimacy stopped years ago and I can honestly say theres NO feeling of warmth when I first see him in the morning. I too had an affair, which ended abruptly, the man concerned is still VERY close (like a brother). I have suggested to my husband we go for counselling and he just laughed!!